Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

View Poll Results: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?
The Russians interfered in the 2016 elections and it is not acceptable no matter which candid they favor		46	52.87%
The Russian interfered and it is only acceptable if they favor the same candidate I favor		1	1.15%
The Russian interfered and it is acceptable no matter which candidate they favor		3	3.45%
The Russians did NOT interfere, but their interference would not be acceptable no matter which candidate they favor		27	31.03%
The Russians did NOT interfere, but their interference would not be acceptable no matter which candidate they favor		7	8.05%
The Russians did NOT interfere, but their interference would be acceptable no matter which candidate they favor		3	3.45%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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#1   Mar 23, '17, 3:20 pm

lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic

Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Some links re this topic: "Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ates_elections Quote: The United States Intelligence Community has officially concluded that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 United States elections.[1] An intelligence community assessment stated, "Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments." "FBI Director Comey's FULL Testimony On Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKMELRxP9Q "Independent investigation into Russian interference needed" at http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...ference-needed __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus

#2   Mar 23, '17, 3:25 pm

dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections? There is enough evidence to warrant a serious, bipartisan investigation. Is such interference acceptable? No.

#3   Mar 23, '17, 3:30 pm

lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections? There is enough evidence to warrant a serious, bipartisan investigation. Is such interference acceptable? No. Good for you. It seems many here CAF will be in disagreement. __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus

#4   Mar 23, '17, 3:44 pm

Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Some links re this topic: "Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ates_elections "FBI Director Comey's FULL Testimony On Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKMELRxP9Q "Independent investigation into Russian interference needed" at http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...ference-needed It seems probable to me that Putin would like to have affected American elections, including congressional elections and all sorts of elections, including the presidential election. It's hard to know what his preferences would have been in this presidential election. His choices weren't all that 'good". Hillary Clinton has proved herself a war-lover and a war-starter, and Putin could have worried about that. I would have if I was him. On the other hand, Trump spoke in favor of a military buildup and put pressure on NATO countries to increase theirs. Putin couldn't have favored that, and I wouldn't if I was him. I can see how Putin might have preferred Trump over Clinton. Clinton has seemed unstable to me, in thought and action if not in speech. Trump seems wild in speech but very rational and measured in what he actually does. But I am not yet convinced that Russia actually engineered the Wikileaks disclosures. As we know, some intelligence people think they saw Russian "hack marks" on the DNC email server. But we also know "hack marks" can be faked so that Russia could make it look like a hack came from Iran, or vice-versa. At the same time, it would not be surprising if Russia did hack the DNC, just as it is said they tried to hack the RNC. If Russia did, what did it accomplish? Maybe it disaffected a few Bernie Sanders people to learn how he had been stabbed in the back by the DNC for Hillary. Also it possibly disaffected a few faithful Catholics to learn how anti-Catholic the Dem party really is. But likely it didn't increase the numbers greatly, because likely they were disaffected already anyway. The Russians didn't keep Hillary Clinton out of the "rust belt" states she didn't visit and lost. They didn't force her to take millions from Arab states that abuse women. They didn't force Bill Clinton to accept hundreds of thousands in "speaking fees". They didn't force Hillary to tell coal miners she had some nice welfare for them in lieu of jobs. I say Hillary Clinton lost the election without needing any help from Putin to do it. But it's true Russian operatives are much more prevalent than we "peasants" really know. After all, our own intelligence services discover a spy now and then in their own ranks. I think we would be making a big mistake to imagine that even if Putin preferred Trump, he would remain "faithful" to him. Right now our intelligence services are in disarray, seemingly full of somebody's moles and leakers. If they're not Putin's, then who are they? Maybe Putin likes the chaos he's seeing in U.S. governance, and maybe George Soros is not alone in funding it. This country is entirely capable of governing itself without the necessity of worrying more than usual about Russian penetration. But again, no matter what Putin thought about Hillary vs. Trump before, the Trump haters are now his allies in fact, if not in intent.

#5   Mar 23, '17, 3:50 pm

Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Some links re this topic: "Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ates_elections "FBI Director Comey's FULL Testimony On Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKMELRxP9Q "Independent investigation into Russian interference needed" at http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...ference-needed Hmmmm. They only got 20 Democrats to sign onto that nasty article? Maybe the others have better sense than I thought.

#6   Mar 23, '17, 3:52 pm

Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections? There is enough evidence to warrant a serious, bipartisan investigation. Is such interference acceptable? No. What votes, if any, did Putin shift from Clinton to Trump, and by what means? Let's be specific.

#7   Mar 23, '17, 3:56 pm

Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Oops! Did not see until now that there was a (very stacked deck of a) poll with the OP. My vote is as follows, though only really ridiculous answers were allowed as choices: "It's entirely possible the Russians tried to interfere with the presidential election, but there is not the slightest evidence that it succeeded if they did. It is a virtual certainty they have at least conducted clandestine surveillance of political parties and will do it again. And so will we to them."

#8   Mar 23, '17, 4:46 pm

7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Oops! Did not see until now that there was a (very stacked deck of a) poll with the OP. My vote is as follows, though only really ridiculous answers were allowed as choices: "It's entirely possible the Russians tried to interfere with the presidential election, but there is not the slightest evidence that it succeeded if they did. It is a virtual certainty they have at least conducted clandestine surveillance of political parties and will do it again. And so will we to them." And we need to ask if Obama and the democrats interfered with the last Israeli elections and was that acceptable? Why aren't they investigating George Soros? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139

#9   Mar 23, '17, 4:47 pm

linus1987 Trial Membership Join Date: March 22, 2017 Posts: 13

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? My own thoughts are it is about as likely that the Russians influenced the election as it is that 3 million illegal votes were cast...the contentions of many of the die-hards on both sides of your country's political spectrum are equally sad yet amusing.

#10   Mar 23, '17, 4:51 pm

7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? On the poll, aren't 4 and 5 the same? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139

#11   Mar 23, '17, 5:14 pm

dshix Veteran Member Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Join Date: October 7, 2012 Posts: 9,934 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? The poll is too broad to be meaningful. What kind of "interfere"? Did the Russians spy on political candidates? That would be interference, which makes no difference whatsoever. Did the Russians change the result of the election by causing votes to be counted that did not exist or by causing votes that did exist to not be counted? That would be interference, which would make a massive difference and DOES matter. Did the Russians hack the DNC and reveal the contents of Hillary's email server, exposing to the American people the truth of her irresponsible handling of American intelligence? That would be interference, which probably would make a difference, but would also be an act of service to the American people. The revelation of truth is a good thing. Which parts of these possible "interferences" happened, and which did not? I think that's a better poll question, rather than "Did the Russians interfere in the 2016 election". __________________ What if there were no hypothetical questions?

#12   Mar 23, '17, 5:16 pm

Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows On the poll, aren't 4 and 5 the same? Yes, I noticed the same thing

#13   Mar 23, '17, 5:17 pm

Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows And we need to ask if Obama and the democrats interfered with the last Israeli elections and was that acceptable? Why aren't they investigating George Soros? And the British parliament probably did more to harm Trump than the Russians did to harm either Trump or Clinton. One recalls some of the MPs attempting to ban him from Britain altogether, for all the awful reasons they offered. Compared to that, Russian hack of DNC headquarters (if they did it) is pretty puny stuff.

#14   Mar 23, '17, 5:21 pm

Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections? There is enough evidence to warrant a serious, bipartisan investigation. Is such interference acceptable? No. I agree. We have to find out what they did and how we can prevent this from happening again. I've been reading quite a bit about their cyber strategies I hope we are up to task in meeting the challenge..

#15   Mar 23, '17, 5:21 pm

dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by linus1987 My own thoughts are it is about as likely that the Russians influenced the election as it is that 3 million illegal votes were cast...the contentions of many of the die-hards on both sides of your country's political spectrum are equally sad yet amusing. Why do you think that the FBI is investigating the forum and not the later?  Mar 23, '17, 5:22 pm Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner And the British parliament probably did more to harm Trump than the Russians did to harm either Trump or Clinton. One recalls some of the MPs attempting to ban him from Britain altogether, for all the awful reasons they offered. Compared to that, Russian hack of DNC headquarters (if they did it) is pretty puny stuff. That's a really good point. I don't remember any European leaders supporting Trump. I do remember they all trashed him publicly. There should be an investigation into that attempt to interfere in our elections.   #17   Mar 23, '17, 5:23 pm BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner What votes, if any, did Putin shift from Clinton to Trump, and by what means? Let's be specific. Oh, well, there was Bill Johnston, from Paducah...and oh, here's Susan Miller from Jacksonville...hm...Larry Rodriguez, from St Paul... C'mon, you know that's an unanswerable question. Anyway, I think we need to define what we mean by "interfere." Did the Russians literally hack the voting machines to change the vote counts? Doesn't look that way. At least, no evidence of that. Did the Russians attempt to undermine the Clinton campaign by leaking damaging information about them? Yep, looks that way. Did a lot of Trump campaign members have a lot of close ties to the Kremlin? Absolutely.   #18   Mar 23, '17, 5:25 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner What votes, if any, did Putin shift from Clinton to Trump, and by what means? Let's be specific. Not surprising that seek to apply a wholly idiosyncratic definition of interference. At least try to be subtle about shifting the goals posts.   #19   Mar 23, '17, 5:27 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 I agree. We have to find out what they did and how we can prevent this from happening again. I've been reading quite a bit about their cyber strategies I hope we are up to task in meeting the challenge.. The amiable dunces will make this harder than it should be.   #20   Mar 23, '17, 5:34 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner And the British parliament probably did more to harm Trump than the Russians did to harm either Trump or Clinton. One recalls some of the MPs attempting to ban him from Britain altogether, for all the awful reasons they offered. Compared to that, Russian hack of DNC headquarters (if they did it) is pretty puny stuff. Yes I remember the petition started to ban Trump from visiting Britain. Remember Obama visiting England before the Brexit vote and giving them his opinion? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #21   Mar 23, '17, 5:35 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Not surprising that seek to apply a wholly idiosyncratic definition of interference. At least try to be subtle about shifting the goals posts. Didn't Hillary win the popular vote in spite of her incompetent campaign and scandals? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #22   Mar 23, '17, 5:42 pm Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Yes I remember the petition started to ban Trump from visiting Britain. Remember Obama visiting England before the Brexit vote and giving them his opinion? Sounds like collusion. We must investigate as well as the other Europeanleaders that had nothing but nasty remarks for Trump during the campaign! Europe interfered with our elections and the evidencr is in every newspaper and video from the campaign of these shameful European leaders interfering in our elections   #23   Mar 23, '17, 5:45 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? As stated in some of my posts on this, short of altering the election result the Russians could not possibly interfere with the election that would alter the election result even if they tried to do so. A matter of preference of a Presidential candidate of their liking does not constitute interfering. Such stance from foreign countries is quite common, US included. If the Russians were to meet any of the candidates, that would be quite natural for their ambassador in order to know them better. However, if they should hack the electoral poll and change the election outcome by dubious means, and if proven then it can make the election null and void but the US should be able to protect their election from such attack. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #24   Mar 23, '17, 5:47 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J As stated in some of my posts on this, short of altering the election result the Russians could not possibly interfere with the election that would alter the election result even if they tried to do so. A matter of preference of a Presidential candidate of their liking does not constitute interfering. Such stance from foreign countries is quite common, US included. If the Russians were to meet any of the candidates, that would be quite natural for their ambassador in order to know them better. However, if they should hack the electoral poll and change the election outcome by dubious means, and if proven then it can make the election null and void but the US should be able to protect their election from such attack. Great post, Reuben   #25   Mar 23, '17, 5:50 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Great post, Reuben Hi Jon. Thanks. Nice meeting you here. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #26   Mar 23, '17, 6:14 pm starshiptrooper Join Date: November 16, 2010 Posts: 1,744 Religion: Troubled Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Oh, well, there was Bill Johnston, from Paducah...and oh, here's Susan Miller from Jacksonville...hm...Larry Rodriguez, from St Paul... C'mon, you know that's an unanswerable question. So no evidence of actual interference by the Russians. Quote: Anyway, I think we need to define what we mean by "interfere." Did the Russians literally hack the voting machines to change the vote counts? Doesn't look that way. At least, no evidence of that. Did the Russians attempt to undermine the Clinton campaign by leaking damaging information about them? Yep, looks that way. Did a lot of Trump campaign members have a lot of close ties to the Kremlin? Absolutely. Revealing factual information about Hillary Clinton as the Russians allegedly did is not interfering with the election. If anything, the hackers (whoever they are) deserve thanks for providing the public with relevant information about a major candidate.   #27   Mar 23, '17, 6:29 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by starshiptrooper So no evidence of actual interference by the Russians.Revealing factual information about Hillary Clinton as the Russians allegedly did is not interfering with the election. If anything, the hackers (whoever they are) deserve thanks for providing the public with relevant information about a major candidate. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #28   Mar 23, '17, 6:56 pm 2 RollinStoned Regular Member Join Date: March 22, 2016 Posts: 702 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Yes, they did and no it's not. __________________ "The takers get the honey. Givers sing the blues.' Robin Trower Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return.   #29   Mar 23, '17, 7:21 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Didn't Hillary win the popular vote in spite of her incompetent campaign and scandals? Yes. And your point?   #30   Mar 23, '17, 7:26 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J As stated in some of my posts on this, short of altering the election result the Russians could not possibly interfere with the election that would alter the election result even if they tried to do so. OK, you know that isn't true. The election was extremely close. You don't even have to change anyone's vote to change the outcome. You only need to change a few voters' state of residence. Of course the Russians could not change anyone's residence. I mention that only to illustrate how close the election was. Therefore it only takes a few minds changed to change the outcome. How are minds changed? By the selective release of embarrassing info. Even true info. Based on what was released, one might conclude that Hillary had all the embarrassing info and thank the Russians for releasing it. Better we know the truth, even if the truth was arrived at by questionable means. However that is the result of selective release. They did not release any comparable embarrassing info on Trump. A careless thinker might conclude that it was because there is no comparably embarrassing info on Trump. But that would be careless thought. When an agent with an agenda (the Russians) has the ability to release only the info that furthers their agenda, they have a strong incentive to do so. The only truly fair way to judge if Hillary's skeletons are worse than Trump's skeletons is to open both closets to public inspection. But of course that won't happen. Which leaves careless thinkers making assumptions about who to vote for. Just seeing the chaos in the government in these first two months, it clearly pleases the Russians. It is not hard to see how this outcome is very much to their liking, and given what we know about the Russians and their history, and what the intelligence agencies have determined about Russian hacking, it is clear to me anyway that the Russians definitely made the difference. Mar 23, '17, 7:30 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by starshiptrooper Revealing factual information about Hillary Clinton as the Russians allegedly did is not interfering with the election. If anything, the hackers (whoever they are) deserve thanks for providing the public with relevant information about a major candidate. A debt of gratitude for what? The party line is that the revelations were of no influence? Why be grateful for the dissemination if it was of no influence?   #32   Mar 23, '17, 7:34 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs The amiable dunces will make this harder than it should be. Quite right. I think that the FBI will lay out their case soon. It would be great if we can have a discussion then.   #33   Mar 23, '17, 7:34 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Yes. And your point? so IF the Russians interfered what damage did they do? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #34   Mar 23, '17, 7:36 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 Quite right. I think that the FBI will lay out their case soon. It would be great if we can have a discussion then. they won't believe it and will invent their own theories. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #35   Mar 23, '17, 7:39 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows so IF the Russians interfered what damage did they do? From the little I have read, they infiltrated Breitbart and inforwars with totally fake news about Hiillary. Many people believed the Russian propaganda. I'm sure there were more sites affected by the Russian fake news.   #36   Mar 23, '17, 7:41 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows they won't believe it and will invent their own theories. Please clarify your statement. I don't quite understand what you are saying.   #37   Mar 23, '17, 7:44 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 From the little I have read, they infiltrated Breitbart and inforwars with totally fake news about Hiillary. Many people believed the Russian propaganda. I'm sure there were more sites affected by the Russian fake news. so Hillary is the victim? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #38   Mar 23, '17, 7:45 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows so IF the Russians interfered what damage did they do? Well, that depends on your political view. One view is that the damage is we have a government thrown into chaos by a President who does not know how to be a President, making misstep after misstep, we have lost faith in our government, the rule of law, and the electoral process. We have lost the respect of the rest of the world.   #39   Mar 23, '17, 7:48 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows so IF the Russians interfered what damage did they do? I think that you know answer to your question; if this truly needs to be explained, then it is probably not worth the effort to try.   #40   Mar 23, '17, 7:49 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows so Hillary is the victim? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your glee. Please explain your happiness.   #41   Mar 23, '17, 7:52 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows so Hillary is the victim? It is so insulting to say that our votes could be influenced by Fake News. But perhaps there were people who did, who believe in everything the Fake News churned out. Yuk. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #42   Mar 23, '17, 7:52 pm mwigs Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2017 Posts: 241 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? What happened to the argument that the majority of Trump voters were racist and they all turned out on election day, or that Comey interfered? Those myths didn't' work so it's all about the Russians now. Where the Russians also responsible for the fact that 9 of the 13 states where voter turnout was highest were battleground states? In Wisconsin, they finally had to show a photo ID. Hilary lost by 22k votes. Milwaukee and Madison saw a reduction in voting numbers. I guess the new photo ID was hard to obtain for the dead people there who voted in past elections. Lack of evidence of illegal voting does not equate to proof of innocence, it's proof of lack of an official investigation. Hillary was the worst Democratic presidential candidate in the modern era. She will be known in history as the single worst candidate ever. Unlikeable, not to be trusted and a corrupt liar. A majority of voters didn't like her personally and didn't trust her. Hillary would have sold Alaska back to the Russians if Putin had agreed to dump enough billions of dollars into the Clinton Crime Family Foundation. However, I'd like to wish Hillary a long and healthy life, so that she can agonize every day about losing the election to President Trump.   #43   Mar 23, '17, 7:53 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle Well, that depends on your political view. One view is that the damage is we have a government thrown into chaos by a President who does not know how to be a President, making misstep after misstep, we have lost faith in our government, the rule of law, and the electoral process. We have lost the respect of the rest of the world. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get our respect back?   #44   Mar 23, '17, 7:55 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 I'm sorry, but I don't understand your glee. Please explain your happiness. I don't think it's happiness but laughable, two different things. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #45   Mar 23, '17, 7:57 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle OK, you know that isn't true. The election was extremely close. You don't even have to change anyone's vote to change the outcome. You only need to change a few voters' state of residence. Of course the Russians could not change anyone's residence. I mention that only to illustrate how close the election was. Therefore it only takes a few minds changed to change the outcome. How are minds changed? Here is a good article on the tactics. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...139695453.html A shorter version here; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7644966.html Mar 23, '17, 7:57 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J It is so insulting to say that our votes could be influenced by Fake News. No, it's just true. There is long history in many nations of false information influencing voting.   #47   Mar 23, '17, 8:00 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Here is a good article on the tactics. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...139695453.html A shorter version here; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7644966.html Thank you. I really am too lazy to look up so many articles, so I am glad there are people like you who are willing to put in the time to do it.   #48   Mar 23, '17, 8:05 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J It is so insulting to say that our votes could be influenced by Fake News. But perhaps there were people who did, who believe in everything the Fake News churned out. Yuk. LOL. 1. I recently posted a story on an interview featuring an interview with a fake news author and website owner. In it i linked to the discussion of that article on this forum. Itwas interesting to note who fell for it, hook line, and sinker. 2. The repetition of campaign falsehoods, long after the election is over, is a staple of posts here. My favorite are posts exposing proof of the anti-catholic actiivities of the DNC> 2. There is a reason that campaigns send lots of money on delivering an well-crafted message. It is not because messaging is of no effect.   #49   Mar 23, '17, 9:00 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 Please clarify your statement. I don't quite understand what you are saying. Seems pretty self explanatory to me. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #50   Mar 23, '17, 9:02 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by mwigs What happened to the argument that the majority of Trump voters were racist and they all turned out on election day, or that Comey interfered? Those myths didn't' work so it's all about the Russians now. Where the Russians also responsible for the fact that 9 of the 13 states where voter turnout was highest were battleground states? In Wisconsin, they finally had to show a photo ID. Hilary lost by 22k votes. Milwaukee and Madison saw a reduction in voting numbers. I guess the new photo ID was hard to obtain for the dead people there who voted in past elections. Lack of evidence of illegal voting does not equate to proof of innocence, it's proof of lack of an official investigation. Hillary was the worst Democratic presidential candidate in the modern era. She will be known in history as the single worst candidate ever. Unlikeable, not to be trusted and a corrupt liar. A majority of voters didn't like her personally and didn't trust her. Hillary would have sold Alaska back to the Russians if Putin had agreed to dump enough billions of dollars into the Clinton Crime Family Foundation. However, I'd like to wish Hillary a long and healthy life, so that she can agonize every day about losing the election to President Trump. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #51   Mar 23, '17, 9:14 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle Well, that depends on your political view. One view is that the damage is we have a government thrown into chaos by a President who does not know how to be a President, making misstep after misstep, we have lost faith in our government, the rule of law, and the electoral process. We have lost the respect of the rest of the world. No. I mean what damage did Russia do to her campaign? Hillary hurt herself and the rest of the democrats like Lynch, Brazille, and Podesta just added fuel to the fire. The democrats refuse to accept their blame in Hillary's defeat. Stop pointing fingers! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #52   Mar 23, '17, 9:18 pm abucs Regular Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 3,184 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? New poll o Obama interfered in Israeli elections and it is not acceptable o I don't want to think about it,   #53   Mar 23, '17, 9:27 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J I don't think it's happiness but laughable, two different things. Definitely laughable! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #54   Mar 23, '17, 9:39 pm St Francis Forum Elder Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,504 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle OK, you know that isn't true. The election was extremely close. You don't even have to change anyone's vote to change the outcome. You only need to change a few voters' state of residence. Of course the Russians could not change anyone's residence. I mention that only to illustrate how close the election was. Therefore it only takes a few minds changed to change the outcome. How are minds changed? By the selective release of embarrassing info. Even true info. Based on what was released, one might conclude that Hillary had all the embarrassing info and thank the Russians for releasing it. Better we know the truth, even if the truth was arrived at by questionable means. However that is the result of selective release. They did not release any comparable embarrassing info on Trump. A careless thinker might conclude that it was because there is no comparably embarrassing info on Trump. But that would be careless thought. When an agent with an agenda (the Russians) has the ability to release only the info that furthers their agenda, they have a strong incentive to do so. The only truly fair way to judge if Hillary's skeletons are worse than Trump's skeletons is to open both closets to public inspection. But of course that won't happen. Which leaves careless thinkers making assumptions about who to vote for. Just seeing the chaos in the government in these first two months, it clearly pleases the Russians. It is not hard to see how this outcome is very much to their liking, and given what we know about the Russians and their history, and what the intelligence agencies have determined about Russian hacking, it is clear to me anyway that the Russians definitely made the difference. Maybe the Russians knew that the Dems would publicize every bad thing about Trump they coudl find and decided to even thenplaying field? It's not like nothing emabarrassing about Trump came out, after all. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #55   Mar 23, '17, 9:40 pm mwigs Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2017 Posts: 241 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? If the Russians were out to get Hillary why did they waste resources hacking the DNC which undoubtedly had a pretty good firewall when they could spend those same resources hacking Hillary's insecure email server and get even more damaging information? Assuming they did waste resources hacking the DNC, how did they force the Democrats to write such incriminating emails about collusion to screw Bernie, about media types colluding with Hillary about questions to ask Trump, about anti-Catholic bigotry, and so forth? Sinners who refuse to be accountable must always find someone to blame. 'It was that woman you gave me', said Adam while Eve blamed the snake. Why wasn't the Russia hack BIG HEADLINE NEWS before the election? It was under the Obama watch. Why only after the electoral votes?   #56   Mar 23, '17, 9:40 pm St Francis Forum Elder Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,504 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs LOL. 1. I recently posted a story on an interview featuring an interview with a fake news author and website owner. In it i linked to the discussion of that article on this forum. Itwas interesting to note who fell for it, hook line, and sinker. Was that the Pizzagate thing? I thought that was really weird... Quote: 2. The repetition of campaign falsehoods, long after the election is over, is a staple of posts here. My favorite are posts exposing proof of the anti-catholic actiivities of the DNC> 2. There is a reason that campaigns send lots of money on delivering an well-crafted message. It is not because messaging is of no effect. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #57   Mar 23, '17, 11:02 pm _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,531 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Here is a good article on the tactics. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...139695453.html A shorter version here; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7644966.html This sounds like an inquiry. Has it been definitively established or not? By the way, there were anti-Trump bots. Who was behind those? Last edited by _Abyssinia; Mar 23, '17 at 11:14 pm.   #58   Mar 23, '17, 11:09 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by abucs New poll o Obama interfered in Israeli elections and it is not acceptable o I don't want to think about it, I think that many will have to check both. Tell us about this interference!   #59   Mar 23, '17, 11:15 pm Ion Regular Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Posts: 1,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by mwigs If the Russians were out to get Hillary why did they waste resources hacking the DNC which undoubtedly had a pretty good firewall when they could spend those same resources hacking Hillary's insecure email server and get even more damaging information? Assuming they did waste resources hacking the DNC, how did they force the Democrats to write such incriminating emails about collusion to screw Bernie, about media types colluding with Hillary about questions to ask Trump, about anti-Catholic bigotry, and so forth? Sinners who refuse to be accountable must always find someone to blame. 'It was that woman you gave me', said Adam while Eve blamed the snake. Why wasn't the Russia hack BIG HEADLINE NEWS before the election? It was under the Obama watch. Why only after the electoral votes? Somehow everybody was supposed to do what would have been favorable for Clinton to win the election...Clinton really thought she deserved the office... People voted for Trump not because of the Russians secret doings or the fact that WikiLeaks was doing its thing and was leaking into, even though in itself such events prove an ineffective administration. What was in those leaks confirmed what people thought about Clinton, and her previous scandals were far bigger. If there would have been some sort of Russian interference in election Democrats would have speculated right away. It is only a narrative supported by Democrats supporters in the Intel agencies. Lucky Trump they thought they were going to win and all they were able to produce in a short time was the "dossier"...   #60   Mar 23, '17, 11:19 pm Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle Well, that depends on your political view. One view is that the damage is we have a government thrown into chaos by a President who does not know how to be a President, making misstep after misstep, we have lost faith in our government, the rule of law, and the electoral process. We have lost the respect of the rest of the world. Speak for yourself! And add "imo" Mar 23, '17, 11:27 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis Was that the Pizzagate thing? I thought that was really weird... That was weird, but this particular fake news was a story of a man who found was said to have found a ballot boxes pre-stuffed for HRC before the election in a warehouse in OH. https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1044292 I found that it has been posted here and affirmed in part of a post-election thread in which posters were denying that HRC won the popular vote.   #62   Mar 23, '17, 11:30 pm Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs That was weird, but this particular fake news was a story of a man who found was said to have found a ballot boxes pre-stuffed for HRC before the election in a warehouse in OH. https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1044292 I found that it has been posted here and affirmed in part of a post-election thread in which posters were denying that HRC won the popular vote. Ill still deny that. Was every single vote counted?   #63   Mar 23, '17, 11:31 pm _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,531 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? There is a report regarding regarding allies of Hillary Clinton working with officials from the Ukranian government in regards to researching detrimental information on Trump aides and Donald Trump itself and that the Ukrainian government officials disseminated information that was damaging to an aide of Trump: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ackfire-233446 Even if Russia was involved in some effort to impact the US 2016 election, if this report is true and Ukrainian government officials did what the article claims and that allies of Hillary Clinton were working with these officials from the Ukrainian government, any effort that Russia may have had, may have been cancelled out by the influence of Ukrainian government officials in the election. By the way, there is an interesting article on LA Times website with the title, 'The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries' According to this article, outside the USA, Dov Levin says the US has interfered in elections '81 times': http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...213-story.html There are claims that the State Department under President Obama tried to interfere in the 2015 election in Israel: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...nyahu-n2260711 If Russia or or Ukraine interfered in the 2016 US election that would be wrong, but the USA does not have an innocent history when it comes to interfering in elections in other countries.   #64   Mar 23, '17, 11:31 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Speak for yourself! And add "imo" Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle View Post Well, that depends on your political view. One view is that the damage is we have a government thrown into chaos by a President who does not know how to be a President, making misstep after misstep, we have lost faith in our government, the rule of law, and the electoral process. We have lost the respect of the rest of the world. I think that it is fair to call that "one view"; it is not narrowly held.   #65   Mar 23, '17, 11:33 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Ill still deny that. Was every single vote counted? Thanks for the most excellent calibration.   #66   Mar 23, '17, 11:56 pm dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by _Abyssinia There is a report regarding regarding allies of Hillary Clinton working with officials from the Ukranian government in regards to researching detrimental information on Trump aides and Donald Trump itself and that the Ukrainian government officials disseminated information that was damaging to an aide of Trump: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ackfire-233446 Even if Russia was involved in some effort to impact the US 2016 election, if this report is true and Ukrainian government officials did what the article claims and that allies of Hillary Clinton were working with these officials from the Ukrainian government, any effort that Russia may have had, may have been cancelled out by the influence of Ukrainian government officials in the election. By the way, there is an interesting article on LA Times website with the title, 'The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries' According to this article, outside the USA, Dov Levin says the US has interfered in elections '81 times': http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...213-story.html There are claims that the State Department under President Obama tried to interfere in the 2015 election in Israel: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...nyahu-n2260711 If Russia or or Ukraine interfered in the 2016 US election that would be wrong, but the USA does not have an innocent history when it comes to interfering in elections in other countries. What a mixed bag of things you speak of at once. I think you should be more careful lest it seem like you are making false equivalences, but welcome your conclusion that that Russia's interference is wrong.   #67   Mar 24, '17, 12:05 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Do the democrats really think they are helping our country with all the chaos, finger pointing, name calling, scheming they are doing? What kind of leaders are Pelosi and Schumer showing themselves to be? I will throw John McCain in with them. Why can't everyone get behind the president and work together for the good of the country? If I were a registered democrat today, I wouldn't be able to run fast enough to distance myself from this party. Maxine Waters is another one. How do these people get elected??!! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #68   Mar 24, '17, 12:09 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Thanks for the most excellent calibration. No prob!   #69   Mar 24, '17, 12:12 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Its still funny! Electoral College Vote----100% verified Popular Vote-----Not so much   #70   Mar 24, '17, 12:25 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? How can you claim Russia interfered, yet you claim you won the popular vote? Where is this massive interference? Really! We won the poular vote, we won the popular vote. Russia interfered and we got less votes, wait, we won the popular vote because Russia intefered and we got less votes but won the popular vote! Insanity   #71   Mar 24, '17, 12:27 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 How can you claim Russia interfered, yet you claim you won the popular vote? Where is this massive interference? Really! We won the poular vote, we won the popular vote. Russia interfered and we got less votes, wait, we won the popular vote because Russia intefered and we got less votes but won the popular vote! Insanity Very insane! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #72   Mar 24, '17, 2:45 am Ion Regular Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Posts: 1,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Do the democrats really think they are helping our country with all the chaos, finger pointing, name calling, scheming they are doing? What kind of leaders are Pelosi and Schumer showing themselves to be? I will throw John McCain in with them. Why can't everyone get behind the president and work together for the good of the country? If I were a registered democrat today, I wouldn't be able to run fast enough to distance myself from this party. Maxine Waters is another one. How do these people get elected??!! This is very interesting, because now no matter what promise they make it will be clearly unachievable because of the illegal immigrants. If anybody who is able to go around the border guys is welcomed with opened arms, then the money for healthcare, welfare, education will be a problem. Also money for police and prisons. Add the politics that allows companies to go in Mexico for example do the production there, then sell in USA with no taxes, probably they pay far less taxes in USA if any, they do not pay workers or other any subcontractors, but they get the money from sales...This is like letting blood out of a body... Who in the world is going to believe them no matter what they say? Here is one of the tactic of the dictators: find an external opponent, present him as one who is working against the country and therefore it must be fight against. Then accuse anybody from opposition as an ally or agent of that enemy country and discredit and then eliminate that person at least from the political arena...This is one of the tactics of the dictators in the middle East. Ex North Korea needs the enmity of USA to perpetuate the terror regime... Now they use it in USA against Trump!   #73   Mar 24, '17, 2:53 am abucs Regular Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 3,184 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? After the investigation into allegations of improper interference in the election from the Russians are they going to move on to investigating CNN and CBS over the same issue?   #74   Mar 24, '17, 3:23 am christofirst Regular Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Posts: 5,282 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Do the democrats really think they are helping our country with all the chaos, finger pointing, name calling, scheming they are doing? What kind of leaders are Pelosi and Schumer showing themselves to be? I will throw John McCain in with them. Why can't everyone get behind the president and work together for the good of the country? If I were a registered democrat today, I wouldn't be able to run fast enough to distance myself from this party. Maxine Waters is another one. How do these people get elected??!! I've enlarged what I consider to be the key phrase. Not all of us are as convinced as you seem to be that President Trump's agenda is for the good of the country. I see this country starting to move in the wrong direction. Trump's proposed budget guts the social safety net in favor of increased military spending. I see important financial and environmental regulations threatened in the interest of Wall Street and big business. I could go on, but you see that from my perspective, those of us who oppose what we see as wrong with the plans of the current administration are also acting for the good of the country. As far as the investigation of Russian meddling goes, I am waiting to see how much interaction, cooperation or complicity there may, or may not have been by members of Trump's campaign team.   #75   Mar 24, '17, 4:12 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows And we need to ask if Obama and the democrats interfered with the last Israeli elections and was that acceptable? Why aren't they investigating George Soros? Not only that, but also the FACT that the Russians have been attempting to interfere in the United States for 100 years ... or more ... if you include the Socialists who lost political wars in Europe in 1848 and emigrated to the U.S. Read: " Lincoln's Marxists" by Al Benson Jr. & Walter Kennedy. There are several books on this subject. On Amazon books, there are dozens of books written by retired Russian spies. Start with "Spymaster" by Tennent H. Bagley. We need to exercise more pushback. Read "Victory!" by Peter Schweizer about how Reagan finally organized and carried out a concerted and coordinated plan that defeated the Russians. The Russians are not our friends ... and they never have been. [So, how did the Clintons manage to sell Russia 20% of American uranium and pocket $140 million ... by making speeches. And they say Trump doesn't read! But you can read the book he recommended: "Clinton Cash". The Russians already own Clinton. Not to mention how Clinton received illegal campaign contributions from China and sent Loral to fix their ICBM rockets.] __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth. Mar 24, '17, 4:35 am b00kbabe New Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Posts: 14 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Some links re this topic: "Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ates_elections "FBI Director Comey's FULL Testimony On Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKMELRxP9Q "Independent investigation into Russian interference needed" at http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...ference-needed If the Russians did interfere in the election they were ineffective. As evidenced by the caterwauling about the Electoral College and the subsequent calls for impeachment, as well as the insistance that our republic is a democracy, at least half the country is woefully ignorant. Citizens lack basic, elementary understanding of the U.S. Constitution, the difference between democratic republics and democracies, how our system of government operates during elections or how an elected federal office holder is accused, placed on trial and sentenced if found guilty under the impeachment process. If the goal was to undermine confidence in our process, the Russians were laughably overestimating the competence of the voters. Putin didn't have to attempt making the Clintons look bad. Over the past decades, the couple has done an incredibly efficient job of making themselves look bad. None of the "revelations" about Hillary or Bill surprised their detractors. Their supporters were immune to the same. Perhaps, the DNC was exposed as being much worse than previously thought by some. In the estimation of the voting block that supported the president, the DNC has been shooting itself in the foot for years, dealt itself a fatal blow with its platform revision for the 2012 federal election, and nailed its own coffin shut in 2015. At least the members of this group with whom I am personally aware knew they had to choose either an Independent candidate (if a viable one could be found) or default to a Republican - regardless of the individual debate performances or who won the primaries.   #77   Mar 24, '17, 4:38 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Podesta who was Hillary's campaign manager[?] was actively working for and taking money from Russian banksters. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #78   Mar 24, '17, 5:22 am petra22 Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: June 22, 2010 Posts: 5,058 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner It's hard to know what his preferences would have been in this presidential election. His choices weren't all that 'good". Hillary Clinton has proved herself a war-lover and a war-starter, and Putin could have worried about that. I would have if I was him. On the other hand, Trump spoke in favor of a military buildup and put pressure on NATO countries to increase theirs. Putin couldn't have favored that, and I wouldn't if I was him. I can see how Putin might have preferred Trump over Clinton. Clinton has seemed unstable to me, in thought and action if not in speech. Trump seems wild in speech but very rational and measured in what he actually does. I watched the hearing with Comey and the only thing he could say, or would say as to why Putin favored Trump??? Any evidence??? NO, because he hated Hilary so much it stands to reason he would prefer Trump! That's making a leap, I think... like he preferred Trump because he was the only other candidate-------duh!!! __________________ God would not vouchsafe you the desire to be the Victim of His Merciful Love,were this not a favor in store...God never inspires a longing which He cannot fulfill. --St. Therese of Lisieux (Autobiography)   #79   Mar 24, '17, 5:26 am petra22 Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: June 22, 2010 Posts: 5,058 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? I don't like any of the choices in the poll. I like the choice that says Russians did probably try to interfere with the election like President Obama tried to influence the elections in Israel and if I'm not mistaken--he spent our money trying to do it. Or is that just fake news??? Now was Obama backing the opponent because he liked him better, had him in his pocket??? or just HATED BEEBEE that much.? Here's a link I found... http://www.newsmax.com/JohnFund/isra.../18/id/630817/ __________________ God would not vouchsafe you the desire to be the Victim of His Merciful Love,were this not a favor in store...God never inspires a longing which He cannot fulfill. --St. Therese of Lisieux (Autobiography) Last edited by petra22; Mar 24, '17 at 5:29 am. Reason: link   #80   Mar 24, '17, 5:28 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by abucs After the investigation into allegations of improper interference in the election from the Russians are they going to move on to investigating CNN and CBS over the same issue? Agreed. Next is the media for their interference in the election!   #81   Mar 24, '17, 5:32 am petra22 Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: June 22, 2010 Posts: 5,058 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS Podesta who was Hillary's campaign manager[?] was actively working for and taking money from Russian banksters. Is there a link for this and why hasn't this been in the news??? As an aside---someone was bashing Trump for something on Fox news and the host was trying to ask why they didn't call Hilary on the same type of action. The "bash-er" said simply---"Trump won!" Meaning anything Hilary did is not open for discussion because she LOST! I thought that was FUNNY! __________________ God would not vouchsafe you the desire to be the Victim of His Merciful Love,were this not a favor in store...God never inspires a longing which He cannot fulfill. --St. Therese of Lisieux (Autobiography)   #82   Mar 24, '17, 5:33 am LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Why can't everyone get behind the president and work together for the good of the country? Because they believe the president is not working for the good of the country, just as the Republicans did not believe Obama was working for the good of the country and refused to get behind him.   #83   Mar 24, '17, 5:36 am LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 How can you claim Russia interfered, yet you claim you won the popular vote? Where is this massive interference? Getting Hillary to lose to Mickey Mouse would have been "massive interference." As it is, it would have been a close election even without illegal interference. So it does not take "massive interference" to change the outcome.   #84   Mar 24, '17, 5:36 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? I'm still waiting to see how Russia influenced the election. Does anybody know?   #85   Mar 24, '17, 5:39 am saellis Junior Member Join Date: June 3, 2016 Posts: 266 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? I seriously doubt that they actually interfered but if they did we should pull the plank out of our eye before crying foul in light of all the interference the so-called US intelligence community has pulled in elections around the world for decades. __________________ RCIA 1991   #86   Mar 24, '17, 5:41 am Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by saellis I seriously doubt that they actually interfered but if they did we should pull the plank out of our eye before crying foul in light of all the interference the so-called US intelligence community has pulled in elections around the world for decades. Exactly. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #87   Mar 24, '17, 5:49 am LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by b00kbabe Putin didn't have to attempt making the Clintons look bad. Over the past decades, the couple has done an incredibly efficient job of making themselves look bad. None of the "revelations" about Hillary or Bill surprised their detractors. Their supporters were immune to the same. You left out the very large middle that were neither detractors nor supporters. They are the ones most susceptible to "revelations." It only takes a few minds changed to change the outcome of the election.   #88   Mar 24, '17, 5:53 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle You left out the very large middle that were neither detractors nor supporters. They are the ones most susceptible to "revelations." It only takes a few minds changed to change the outcome of the election. Yet you have no problem what the extremely biased media did during the campaign?   #89   Mar 24, '17, 5:55 am J_Peterson Regular Member Join Date: April 7, 2012 Posts: 3,872 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by b00kbabe If the Russians did interfere in the election they were ineffective. As evidenced by the caterwauling about the Electoral College and the subsequent calls for impeachment, as well as the insistance that our republic is a democracy, at least half the country is woefully ignorant. Citizens lack basic, elementary understanding of the U.S. Constitution, the difference between democratic republics and democracies, how our system of government operates during elections or how an elected federal office holder is accused, placed on trial and sentenced if found guilty under the impeachment process. If the goal was to undermine confidence in our process, the Russians were laughably overestimating the competence of the voters. Putin didn't have to attempt making the Clintons look bad. Over the past decades, the couple has done an incredibly efficient job of making themselves look bad. None of the "revelations" about Hillary or Bill surprised their detractors. Their supporters were immune to the same. Perhaps, the DNC was exposed as being much worse than previously thought by some. In the estimation of the voting block that supported the president, the DNC has been shooting itself in the foot for years, dealt itself a fatal blow with its platform revision for the 2012 federal election, and nailed its own coffin shut in 2015. At least the members of this group with whom I am personally aware knew they had to choose either an Independent candidate (if a viable one could be found) or default to a Republican - regardless of the individual debate performances or who won the primaries. If you believed that Hillary had extremely poor health during the campaign than you were probably influenced by the Russians.   #90   Mar 24, '17, 5:57 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by J_Peterson If you believed that Hillary had extremely poor health during the campaign than you were probably influenced by the Russians. Nah, video from the MSM was all that was needed.  Mar 27, '17, 6:57 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Your decision to take comfort in that tired idea is your choice. Most folk would like to investigate and take measures to reduce the influence of foreign governments, especially adversarial ones, in our elections. Curiously this is no unanimous; some do put perceived party advantage over national security. Yes, of course this is why you're doing it! Keep telling yourself that and one day even you might believe it!   #272   Mar 27, '17, 7:26 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Online, talk radio, Immaculate Heart Radio, a few paranormal radio shows for entertainment sometimes. Radio is way easier because I can multitask and stay updated. Careful man. You don't want to create an environment where you only listen to/read things you already agree. That's basically the same thing college students in need of "Safe Spaces" do: cocoon themselves in a bubble because they can't stand to hear something they don't agree with.   #273   Mar 27, '17, 7:33 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS Trump has a many years record and reputation of actively supporting veterans. As a vet I've never really bought the idea that Donald Trump has an amazing record of supporting the military. It seems to be based mostly on him saying, "I like the military." I do know that during Vietnam he mysteriously developed bone spurs when his educational deferments ran out and it looked like he might be drafted. Interestingly, these bone spurs never prevented him from playing sports, and they mysteriously healed without surgery after the Vietnam War was over. Interesting timing... And as a side note, I think people trash the VA too much. They really do have a huge task and they're not always well funded.   #274   Mar 27, '17, 7:36 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Careful man. You don't want to create an environment where you only listen to/read things you already agree. That's basically the same thing college students in need of "Safe Spaces" do: cocoon themselves in a bubble because they can't stand to hear something they don't agree with. Don't worry dude! I get the liberal MSM slant at the top and bottom of every hour!!!!   #275   Mar 27, '17, 7:38 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini As a vet I've never really bought the idea that Donald Trump has an amazing record of supporting the military. It seems to be based mostly on him saying, "I like the military." I do know that during Vietnam he mysteriously developed bone spurs when his educational deferments ran out and it looked like he might be drafted. Interestingly, these bone spurs never prevented him from playing sports, and they mysteriously healed without surgery after the Vietnam War was over. Interesting timing... And as a side note, I think people trash the VA too much. They really do have a huge task and they're not always well funded. Thank You for your service!   #276   Mar 27, '17, 7:42 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Thank You for your service! Thanks. Always makes me mildly uncomfortable to bring it up because I don't like vets who try to use their service to get attention. And, of course, there are plenty of people who did more than I did. Even when you're deployed, there's always someone who is in a worse spot than you.   #277   Mar 27, '17, 7:47 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Thanks. Always makes me mildly uncomfortable to bring it up because I don't like vets who try to use their service to get attention. And, of course, there are plenty of people who did more than I did. Even when you're deployed, there's always someone who is in a worse spot than you. I kinda know what you mean. My grandfather was at D day +5 and he always downplayed that because he was a clerk. He was, like you, a Hero!   #278   Mar 27, '17, 8:21 am gracepoole Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Yes, of course this is why you're doing it! Keep telling yourself that and one day even you might believe it! Why do you insist on calling people here liars? You can't possibly know what's in someone's heart.   #279   Mar 27, '17, 9:49 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini As a vet I've never really bought the idea that Donald Trump has an amazing record of supporting the military. It seems to be based mostly on him saying, "I like the military." I do know that during Vietnam he mysteriously developed bone spurs when his educational deferments ran out and it looked like he might be drafted. Interestingly, these bone spurs never prevented him from playing sports, and they mysteriously healed without surgery after the Vietnam War was over. Interesting timing... And as a side note, I think people trash the VA too much. They really do have a huge task and they're not always well funded. Did Obama or Bill or Hillary Clinton serve in the military? Bernie Sanders? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #280   Mar 27, '17, 9:57 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 20q16 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Why do you insist on calling people here liars? You can't possibly know what's in someone's heart. Well, I do believe all this Russian stuff is a lie. Just like "Nobody, tapped Trump Towers, OH, wait, except for some really bad guys"!   #281   Mar 27, '17, 10:07 am oldcelt Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2009 Posts: 7,198 Religion: Deist, former Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 I kinda know what you mean. My grandfather was at D day +5 and he always downplayed that because he was a clerk. He was, like you, a Hero! My father was also at D+5 with the 310th Signal Operations Battalion. He also downplayed his role. __________________ With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan.. Abraham Lincoln   #282   Mar 27, '17, 10:52 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Did Obama or Bill or Hillary Clinton serve in the military? Bernie Sanders? Please tell me why you think this is a relevant question. I'm honestly curious. Do you think if Bill Clinton is a punk it somehow excuses Trump? If I had a dollar for every time a Trump defender did an awkward pivot to, "Well, but Bill Clinton..." even when no one was defending Clinton, I could retire. Anyway, even though it's not relevant and I'm not a Democrat, here goes: -Sanders was too old to be drafted when his number popped up. He also was a conscientious objector. -Obama was too young to be drafted. -Hillary Clinton is a woman, and women were not drafted. -Bill Clinton has no excuse as far as I can tell. Now, maybe Trump really did have some bone spurs that just happened to surface right around the time his educational deferments ran out and then conveniently disappeared when the war ended. But color me suspicious.   #283   Mar 27, '17, 11:23 am gracepoole Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 20q16 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Well, I do believe all this Russian stuff is a lie. Just like "Nobody, tapped Trump Towers, OH, wait, except for some really bad guys"! You deemed another poster's explanation of his/her own reasons for believing something a lie. That's quite different. And quite uncharitable.   #284   Mar 27, '17, 3:53 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle Number of counties is no more representative of number of people than the number of states was. Counties very greatly in the number of people. They are generally designed to have similar area. Cherry-picking New York and California. You are exactly correct. Counties don't matter. Plebiscites don't matter. States matter! States choose the president. They used to choose the senators and it a shame they don't still. After all, the states created the constitution and the general government. They can end it if they choose.   #285   Mar 27, '17, 4:06 pm BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC You are exactly correct. Counties don't matter. Plebiscites don't matter. States matter! States choose the president. They used to choose the senators and it a shame they don't still. After all, the states created the constitution and the general government. They can end it if they choose. Are you trying to convince NC to secede? And again, no one is arguing that the popular vote determines the winner of the election. You keep saying it doesn't matter but that's only true if the question you're asking is "who won the election?" Mar 27, '17, 5:18 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC You are exactly correct. Counties don't matter. Plebiscites don't matter. States matter! There is no dispute as to what matters to legally choose a president. But if someone claims a popular mandate, as Trump did, then plebiscites matter more than any other measure.   #287   Mar 27, '17, 6:04 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Are you trying to convince NC to secede? And again, no one is arguing that the popular vote determines the winner of the election. You keep saying it doesn't matter but that's only true if the question you're asking is "who won the election?" Where did you get that idea? If the popular vote matters in some way, then so does counties.   #288   Mar 27, '17, 6:06 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle There is no dispute as to what matters to legally choose a president. But if someone claims a popular mandate, as Trump did, then plebiscites matter more than any other measure. He has a popular mandate. He won the election. He won the popular vote in 30 states. That's a mandate. Not a Reagan sized one, but a mandate   #289   Mar 27, '17, 6:09 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC He has a popular mandate. He won the election. The first statement does not follow from the second one. Quote: He won the popular vote in 30 states. We already went over why this does not define a mandate. Quote: That's a mandate. Not a Reagan sized one, but a mandate By your interpretation, every win of an election is a mandate. Can you cite one presidential election that was not a mandate for the winner?   #290   Mar 27, '17, 6:40 pm BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Where did you get that idea? If the popular vote matters in some way, then so does counties. Just detected a note of something or other with the states being able to disestablish the national government comment. And sure, the number of counties matter if the question is who won the most counties.   #291   Mar 27, '17, 6:54 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Are you trying to convince NC to secede? And again, no one is arguing that the popular vote determines the winner of the election. You keep saying it doesn't matter but that's only true if the question you're asking is "who won the election?" I think that is a valid question, who won the election? He won the election and therefore elected President. He won it even if it was by a single Electoral College vote. Since the election system is decided by Electoral College votes, why talk about the popular vote, since the latter did not count on the outcome of the election? Sure more people who voted did not vote for him thus losing the popular votes, but Americans should be gentleman enough and respect their system and now the focus should be on him discharging his duty as President. After all there are Americans who wanted what he stood for. That’s how the system works. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #292   Mar 27, '17, 7:16 pm BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J I think that is a valid question, who won the election? He won the election and therefore elected President. He won it even if it was by a single Electoral College vote. Since the election system is decided by Electoral College votes, why talk about the popular vote, since the latter did not count on the outcome of the election? Sure more people who voted did not vote for him thus losing the popular votes, but Americans should be gentleman enough and respect their system and now the focus should be on him discharging his duty as President. After all there are Americans who wanted what he stood for. That’s how the system works. No one is arguing that. "Who won the election?" is a legitimate question (and a pretty easily answered one.) "Does Donald Trump have a popular mandate?" is a different, but no less valid, question. Obviously it's more of an academic question, but it's still a perfectly fair question. What country are you from, by the way. Doesn't have anything to do with anything, just curious.   #293   Mar 27, '17, 7:32 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini No one is arguing that. "Who won the election?" is a legitimate question (and a pretty easily answered one.) "Does Donald Trump have a popular mandate?" is a different, but no less valid, question. Obviously it's more of an academic question, but it's still a perfectly fair question. What country are you from, by the way. Doesn't have anything to do with anything, just curious. Granted, as far as the question being academic. No problem with that. Maybe I confused the question with some posts that seem to try to illegitimatize his Presidency. I thought that was something really hitting below the belt. Guess the discussion has veered off much from the topic then. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #294   Mar 27, '17, 8:28 pm Dwyer Regular Member Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? She didn't need any help losing the Election. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #295   Mar 27, '17, 8:37 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Please tell me why you think this is a relevant question. I'm honestly curious. Do you think if Bill Clinton is a punk it somehow excuses Trump? If I had a dollar for every time a Trump defender did an awkward pivot to, "Well, but Bill Clinton..." even when no one was defending Clinton, I could retire. Anyway, even though it's not relevant and I'm not a Democrat, here goes: -Sanders was too old to be drafted when his number popped up. He also was a conscientious objector. -Obama was too young to be drafted. -Hillary Clinton is a woman, and women were not drafted. -Bill Clinton has no excuse as far as I can tell. Now, maybe Trump really did have some bone spurs that just happened to surface right around the time his educational deferments ran out and then conveniently disappeared when the war ended. But color me suspicious. they could have volunteered to serve in the military without being drafted, but didn't. you don't see the hypocrisy? of course not. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #296   Mar 28, '17, 4:15 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? There is an important need here for the Democrats to shift the focus of this Original Post. It is clear that the Russians were unsuccessful in interfering with our election. [I mean ... like ... Pedestal and Clinton were already receiving substantial payments from Russia.] HOWEVER, incidental information has now been revealed that Obama was using classified information AND was "unmasking" American citizens ... which is a ten year felony for each count. AND to make matters worse, Obama at the last minute changed the rules to allow 17 or 18 agencies to have highly classified information ... IN ORDER TO DELIBERATELY allow the [basically] gossip to be leaked to the media. Nunes visited the White House to inform the President and his staff that they had been compromised by Obama operatives who were leaking unmasked transcripts. [And the Democrats are attacking Nunes for trying to restore communications security.] In addition, right after the election, Mike Rogers, Director of the National Security Agency visited Trump to inform him of the gross irregularities taking place within the Obama Executive Branch. Trump sent out his famous "wire tap" tweet. BUT the words wire tap were within quotation marks. So clearly Trump knew his offices were being surveilled ... regardless if the surveillance was a 1930's movie wire tap or something more sophisticated. AND, by being deliberately careless with classified material ... by using the Russian ruse ... the methods of surveillance were compromised. So, we are talking about deliberate felonies by the Democrats. Right now, it's merely a matter of listing who will be treated to the perp walk. And which Federal prison in which they will be incarcerated. Close to home or someplace out in Kansas ... Fort Leavenworth is not so delightful. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #297   Mar 28, '17, 4:22 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows they could have volunteered to serve in the military without being drafted, but didn't. you don't see the hypocrisy? of course not. Don't try to move the goalposts to defend your poorly thought out, kneejerk "well what about Billl?" response. Failing to respond to a draft is way different than simply not volunteering. No one is obligated to volunteer. You are obligated not to skate out of a draft during war.   #298   Mar 28, '17, 4:24 am Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS There is an important need here for the Democrats to shift the focus of this Original Post. It is clear that the Russians were unsuccessful in interfering with our election. [I mean ... like ... Pedestal and Clinton were already receiving substantial payments from Russia.] HOWEVER, incidental information has now been revealed that Obama was using classified information AND was "unmasking" American citizens ... which is a ten year felony for each count. AND to make matters worse, Obama at the last minute changed the rules to allow 17 or 18 agencies to have highly classified information ... IN ORDER TO DELIBERATELY allow the [basically] gossip to be leaked to the media. Nunes visited the White House to inform the President and his staff that they had been compromised by Obama operatives who were leaking unmasked transcripts. [And the Democrats are attacking Nunes for trying to restore communications security.] In addition, right after the election, Mike Rogers, Director of the National Security Agency visited Trump to inform him of the gross irregularities taking place within the Obama Executive Branch. Trump sent out his famous "wire tap" tweet. BUT the words wire tap were within quotation marks. So clearly Trump knew his offices were being surveilled ... regardless if the surveillance was a 1930's movie wire tap or something more sophisticated. AND, by being deliberately careless with classified material ... by using the Russian ruse ... the methods of surveillance were compromised. So, we are talking about deliberate felonies by the Democrats. Right now, it's merely a matter of listing who will be treated to the perp walk. And which Federal prison in which they will be incarcerated. Close to home or someplace out in Kansas ... Fort Leveanworth is not so delightful. Then I'm sure you would agree that it's time for an independent commission and prosecutor to be appointed.   #299   Mar 28, '17, 4:29 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 Then I'm sure you would agree that it's time for an independent commission and prosecutor to be appointed. Sure. The problem is that classified methods may be disclosed; so the investigation might need to be done in closed session. The "problem" is that it is in the process of backfiring on the Democrats. What a can of worms this is going to create. Maybe some bureaucrats need to quietly resign and go away ... maybe a LOT of bureaucrats. Maybe former President Obama should stay in Tahiti permanently. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #300   Mar 28, '17, 4:34 am Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS Sure. The problem is that classified methods may be disclosed; so the investigation might need to be done in closed session. The "problem" is that it is in the process of backfiring on the Democrats. What a can of worms this is going to create. Maybe some bureaucrats need to quietly resign and go away ... maybe a LOT of bureaucrats. Maybe former President Obama should stay in Tahiti permanently. Who cares what can of worms is opened, if we are to find out answers to the original post This is bigger than party issues. Mar 28, '17, 4:40 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini As a vet I've never really bought the idea that Donald Trump has an amazing record of supporting the military. It seems to be based mostly on him saying, "I like the military." I do know that during Vietnam he mysteriously developed bone spurs when his educational deferments ran out and it looked like he might be drafted. Interestingly, these bone spurs never prevented him from playing sports, and they mysteriously healed without surgery after the Vietnam War was over. Interesting timing... And as a side note, I think people trash the VA too much. They really do have a huge task and they're not always well funded. What sports? Golf? Seriously? [Change focus to the VA? Trying to post a pivot?] __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #302   Mar 28, '17, 4:43 am JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle The first statement does not follow from the second one. We already went over why this does not define a mandate. By your interpretation, every win of an election is a mandate. Can you cite one presidential election that was not a mandate for the winner? It is. Definition of a mandate: 1. an official order or commission to do something. 2.the authority to carry out a policy or course of action, regarded as given by the electorate to a candidate or party that is victorious in an election. https://www.google.com/search?q=mand...&client=safari   #303   Mar 28, '17, 4:45 am LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC It is. Definition of a mandate: 1. an official order or commission to do something. 2.the authority to carry out a policy or course of action, regarded as given by the electorate to a candidate or party that is victorious in an election. OK, so every winner has a mandate. Fine. As long as we understand what that means.   #304   Mar 28, '17, 4:49 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Don't try to move the goalposts to defend your poorly thought out, kneejerk "well what about Billl?" response. Failing to respond to a draft is way different than simply not volunteering. No one is obligated to volunteer. You are obligated not to skate out of a draft during war. You dislike Trump. I get that. But you don't want to discuss other politicians ... whose public patriotic social offenses may be lesser or greater. [Would you equate or characterize Bill Clinton's avoidance of military service to Donald Trump's avoidance?] [Did Bill Clinton use the word "despise" at any time?] [ http://www.1stcavmedic.com/bill-clinton-draft.htm ] [Did Donald Trump use the word "despise" at any time?] OK. Got it. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth. Last edited by Monte RCMS; Mar 28, '17 at 5:07 am.   #305   Mar 28, '17, 4:59 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC It is. Definition of a mandate: 1. an official order or commission to do something. 2.the authority to carry out a policy or course of action, regarded as given by the electorate to a candidate or party that is victorious in an election. https://www.google.com/search?q=mand...&client=safari That's not the way people use "mandate" and it's certainly not what people mean when they say "popular mandate." As Leaf said, used this way it's completely redundant, because it just means whoever won. Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS What sports? Golf? Seriously? [Change focus to the VA? Trying to post a pivot?] Football. Tennis. Squash. Yes, seriously. I'm not trying to change the focus to the VA: I'm happy to talk about Trump's sketchy experience with the draft all day. Your original ode to Trump focused on him repairing the VA, so I mentioned my own take on it. Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS You dislike Trump. I get that. But you don't want to discuss other politicians ... whose public patriotic social offenses may be lesser or greater. I'm happy to discuss Bill Clinton: I have a very low opinion of him. On the issue of treatment of women, for example, I'd say he has a worse history than Trump. He's not really the topic at hand anymore, since he's not president. But yeah, Bill Clinton is a man of very low character. And? I don't understand is why this excuses Trump. Every time someone brings up something negative about Trump, the response is always to try to change the subject to some other politician. That's not a response. I don't know why this keeps coming up. It's not a see saw, where if someone is up, someone else must be down. It's not like if I say I dislike Trump, I am necessarily saying I like Clinton. They can both be down simultaneously.   #306   Mar 28, '17, 5:11 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini That's not the way people use "mandate" and it's certainly not what people mean when they say "popular mandate." As Leaf said, used this way it's completely redundant, because it just means whoever won. Football. Tennis. Squash. Yes, seriously. I'm not trying to change the focus to the VA: I'm happy to talk about Trump's sketchy experience with the draft all day. Your original ode to Trump focused on him repairing the VA, so I mentioned my own take on it. I'm happy to discuss Bill Clinton: I have a very low opinion of him. On the issue of treatment of women, for example, I'd say he has a worse history than Trump. He's not really the topic at hand anymore, since he's not president. But yeah, Bill Clinton is a man of very low character. And? I don't understand is why this excuses Trump. Every time someone brings up something negative about Trump, the response is always to try to change the subject to some other politician. That's not a response. I don't know why this keeps coming up. It's not a see saw, where if someone is up, someone else must be down. It's not like if I say I dislike Trump, I am necessarily saying I like Clinton. They can both be down simultaneously. Using different criteria. Got it. [They used to beat up on Reagan for making movies during World War Two. Conveniently omitting that he had PREVIOUSLY served in the horse cavalry.] So ... different criteria. Got it. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #307   Mar 28, '17, 5:16 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS Using different criteria. Got it. [They used to beat up on Reagan for making movies during World War Two. Conveniently omitting that he had PREVIOUSLY served in the horse cavalry.] So ... different criteria. Got it. Can you please spell out your reasoning instead of just declaring victory with "got it" and moving on? How am I using different criteria? What criteria?   #308   Mar 28, '17, 6:26 am dvdjs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? FWIW Dick Cheney weighs in: "There's no question that there was a very serious effort made by Mr. Putin and his government, his organization, to interfere in major ways with our basic fundamental democratic processes," Cheney said. "In some quarters, that could be considered an act of war. http://www.businessinsider.com/dick-...-of-war-2017-3   #309   Mar 28, '17, 7:36 am lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? It's beginning to look to me that a lot more Republican politicos were in on this Russian interference thing, from their actions and positions. I'm thinking Nunes (who is acting strangely AND was on the transition team), perhaps Paul Ryan (who is okaying whatever Nunes does & refuses to replace him). It seems to me the Russians, who may have started their efforts over a year ago and wouldn't have known who was going to win the primaries, may have become "friendly" and contributed to at least several of the Republican front-runners. Looks like the Supreme Court a few years ago made that very possible (and likely) with their campaign contribution decision. (Maybe they are on the take as well ) Be on the look-out for SC justices with 2nd and 3rd yachts (Someone mentioned that Hillary was also taking from the Russians.....and that may have been true in the past, but since it didn't seem to influence her actions and attitudes against Russia, that money flow and "friendliness" may have dried up.) I was just telling my husband about how I thought there could be a lot more congressmen and senators in on this Russian thing, maybe even up to a third of them, bec they don't seem to be taking the FBI & NSA concerns seriously, brushing them off, not up to a good investigation, deflecting it into Obama did something wrong, and now the only way we can tell if they are not in on it is if they vigorously speak out against the Russian interference, like John McCain did. Just at the moment, a Republican congressman came on TV to say he thought Nunes should step down or recuse himself and there should be a better investigation, that it was abhorrent that the Russians had interfered. I said, "Okay, there's one Republican who is NOT in on the Russian interference thing. Let's see if there are more." This is becoming reminiscent of the McCarthy era in the 50s when my mom suspected all sorts of people of being communist, including our next-door neighbors (who had meetings Saturday nights), Catholics (which is why I was always sort of attracted to the Catholic Church), and various others. __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #310   Mar 28, '17, 7:39 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Yes, we must become even more parranoid about Republicans!   #311   Mar 28, '17, 7:42 am JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by LeafByNiggle OK, so every winner has a mandate. Fine. As long as we understand what that means. Yes. It means Trump has a mandate to enact the policies he ran on, just like every president before him did.   #312   Mar 28, '17, 7:44 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Throw em all in jail! We have no evidence, unlike a woman I know, but lets make up theories and throw them in jail. Evidence doesn't matter anymore and even then you can get out of jail by beinng a confused old lady who happens to be runninng for President.   #313   Mar 28, '17, 7:46 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc It's beginning to look to me that a lot more Republican politicos were in on this Russian interference thing, from their actions and positions. I'm thinking Nunes (who is acting strangely AND was on the transition team), perhaps Paul Ryan (who is okaying whatever Nunes does & refuses to replace him). There it is, then. Everybody who is acting strangely is in league with the Russians. And anybody who doesn't recognize that those people are acting strangely is in league with the Russians as well. And nobody who is acting strangely or refusing to recognize that they're acting strangely should be able to investigate anything. Only those who express conviction that Trump is in league with the Russians regardless of there being no evidence that there was, should be allowed to investigate. Obviously, that would disqualify Clapper, Comey and just about anybody but Schiff, Pelosi, Waters, and Schumer.   #314   Mar 28, '17, 7:53 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs FWIW Dick Cheney weighs in: "There's no question that there was a very serious effort made by Mr. Putin and his government, his organization, to interfere in major ways with our basic fundamental democratic processes," Cheney said. "In some quarters, that could be considered an act of war. http://www.businessinsider.com/dick-...-of-war-2017-3 This is rich! Now Cheney makes sense! ROFL   #315   Mar 28, '17, 7:58 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Yes. It means Trump has a mandate to enact the policies he ran on, just like every president before him did. You're using the idea of a popular mandate in a totally unique way that is different from the way 99% of people understand the term, but at least this is consistent. Mar 28, '17, 8:01 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Don't try to move the goalposts to defend your poorly thought out, kneejerk "well what about Billl?" response. Failing to respond to a draft is way different than simply not volunteering. No one is obligated to volunteer. You are obligated not to skate out of a draft during war. Excuses excuses! Hypocrisy! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #317   Mar 28, '17, 8:03 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Excuses excuses! Hypocrisy! I assume you're unwilling/unable to flesh this thought out more? Or are we just going to hide behind name calling? Either engage in a discussion or don't, but don't just take potshots that fail to address what I said.   #318   Mar 28, '17, 8:03 am JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini That's not the way people use "mandate" and it's certainly not what people mean when they say "popular mandate." As Leaf said, used this way it's completely redundant, because it just means whoever won. . Of course it is. What people refer to is the degree of strength of that mandate, and as I've said, Trump's is not as strong as, say Reagan's, but he clearly has a popular mandate   #319   Mar 28, '17, 8:06 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS You dislike Trump. I get that. But you don't want to discuss other politicians ... whose public patriotic social offenses may be lesser or greater. [Would you equate or characterize Bill Clinton's avoidance of military service to Donald Trump's avoidance?] [Did Bill Clinton use the word "despise" at any time?] [ http://www.1stcavmedic.com/bill-clinton-draft.htm ] [Did Donald Trump use the word "despise" at any time?] OK. Got it. I get so tired of the double standard. So far no reply to your posts either. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #320   Mar 28, '17, 8:08 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows I get so tired of the double standard. So far no reply to your posts either. I responded. Twice. I'm waiting for one of you to provide some evidence that I'm defending Bill Clinton, despite the fact that I've said repeatedly that I have a very low opinion of him and he's a draft dodger. It's very frustrating to respond and then get the sense that you're not even reading it.   #321   Mar 28, '17, 8:56 am JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini You're using the idea of a popular mandate in a totally unique way that is different from the way 99% of people understand the term, but at least this is consistent. Nonsense. Though the losing party often tries to use it to mean something different, to try to diminish the victory of the opponent, the dictionary definition is exactly what it means.   #322   Mar 28, '17, 9:02 am lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner There it is, then. Everybody who is acting strangely is in league with the Russians. And anybody who doesn't recognize that those people are acting strangely is in league with the Russians as well. And nobody who is acting strangely or refusing to recognize that they're acting strangely should be able to investigate anything. Only those who express conviction that Trump is in league with the Russians regardless of there being no evidence that there was, should be allowed to investigate. Obviously, that would disqualify Clapper, Comey and just about anybody but Schiff, Pelosi, Waters, and Schumer. Lock 'em all up. Or, build a border wall and call America "prison"! __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #323   Mar 28, '17, 9:06 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Lock 'em all up. Or, build a border wall and call America "prison"! Naah, Kurt Russell, aka Snake, prove you can break in and out!   #324   Mar 28, '17, 9:17 am lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Naah, Kurt Russell, aka Snake, prove you can break in and out! Yeah, when they started building the 12-foot wall some years back, they had cartoons of people on the Mexican side selling 13-foot ladders. When I saw the border wall they just showed on TV a few minutes ago, I told my husband I could climb that, as I had climbed a 6 foot fence when I was 6 months old (and couldn't even walk yet).... or so my mom told me. However it would be very difficult for obese people wanting to flee to Mexico from that "ice chase" in Day After Tomorrow. __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #325   Mar 28, '17, 9:20 am Theo520 Regular Member Join Date: August 8, 2014 Posts: 5,623 Religion: Christian Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? I haven't read every post, but has someone located evidence that it was actually the Russians who released the DNC emails? Logical guess is not sufficient. __________________ FACTS MATTER!   #326   Mar 28, '17, 9:21 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Theo520 I haven't read every post, but has someone located evidence that it was actually the Russians who released the DNC emails? Logical guess is not sufficient. No   #327   Mar 28, '17, 9:27 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Yeah, when they started building the 12-foot wall some years back, they had cartoons of people on the Mexican side selling 13-foot ladders. When I saw the border wall they just showed on TV a few minutes ago, I told my husband I could climb that, as I had climbed a 6 foot fence when I was 6 months old (and couldn't even walk yet).... or so my mom told me. However it would be very difficult for obese people wanting to flee to Mexico from that "ice chase" in Day After Tomorrow. What people don't understand is several technologies will be employed, not just a wall. Drones, ground penetrating radar, more personell etc.   #328   Mar 28, '17, 9:31 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Yeah, when they started building the 12-foot wall some years back, they had cartoons of people on the Mexican side selling 13-foot ladders. When I saw the border wall they just showed on TV a few minutes ago, I told my husband I could climb that, as I had climbed a 6 foot fence when I was 6 months old (and couldn't even walk yet).... or so my mom told me. However it would be very difficult for obese people wanting to flee to Mexico from that "ice chase" in Day After Tomorrow. How high is the wall that Israel built? Seems to be very effective. How high is the wall that has already been built on the southern edge of San Diego. Seems to be very effective. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #329   Mar 28, '17, 9:37 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Theo520 I haven't read every post, but has someone located evidence that it was actually the Russians who released the DNC emails? Logical guess is not sufficient. Clearly, the Democrats were unable to protect their own systems against the most primitive of attempts to breach their security. No one had any difficulty getting past Pedesta and his cohorts. After all, the Democrats and Hillary just KNEW that they had victory in the bag ... a done deal. But it didn't work out that way. The Democrats are more than willing to give away American national security and the secrets being kept at the National Security Agency ... no matter what. The Russians ... yeah ... Representative Maxine Waters of California, a Democrat, wants to know why the Russians want to invade Korea ... [she thinks Korea and Crimea are the same thing.]. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #330   Mar 28, '17, 10:09 am Monkey1976 Regular Member Join Date: May 1, 2007 Posts: 2,432 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc It's beginning to look to me that a lot more Republican politicos were in on this Russian interference thing, from their actions and positions. I'm thinking Nunes (who is acting strangely AND was on the transition team), perhaps Paul Ryan (who is okaying whatever Nunes does & refuses to replace him). It seems to me the Russians, who may have started their efforts over a year ago and wouldn't have known who was going to win the primaries, may have become "friendly" and contributed to at least several of the Republican front-runners. Looks like the Supreme Court a few years ago made that very possible (and likely) with their campaign contribution decision. (Maybe they are on the take as well ) Be on the look-out for SC justices with 2nd and 3rd yachts And how have you been, Sen. McCarthy? I guess it is true that the parties have swapped positions. Now, it's the Democrats blaming everything on the EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL Russians. Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc This is becoming reminiscent of the McCarthy era in the 50s when my mom suspected all sorts of people of being communist, including our next-door neighbors (who had meetings Saturday nights), Catholics (which is why I was always sort of attracted to the Catholic Church), and various others. Generally, McCarthyism is seen as a bad thing. Is it now acceptable because it's being pushed by the left? One thing I still haven't seen an answer to: In what way did Russia supposedly "interfere"?  Mar 28, '17, 10:15 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monkey1976 And how have you been, Sen. McCarthy? I guess it is true that the parties have swapped positions. Now, it's the Democrats blaming everything on the EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL Russians. Generally, McCarthyism is seen as a bad thing. Is it now acceptable because it's being pushed by the left? One thing I still haven't seen an answer to: In what way did Russia supposedly "interfere"? I'm still waiting for that answer! They tried to claim telling the truth about Hillary is interferenc. Oh, there is also the evil Russian bot theory, that's not getting much traction, so I guess the story this week will be every Republican is in cahoots with the Russians!!! ROFL   #332   Mar 28, '17, 10:33 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? 7 Sorrows and Monte, Still waiting on some explanation on my hypocrisy and double standards. Or is the lack of a response just an implicit admission it was just a baseless kneejerk response?   #333   Mar 28, '17, 10:43 am Mary Gail 36 Forum Elder Join Date: September 5, 2005 Posts: 17,461 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS What sports? Golf? Seriously? [Change focus to the VA? Trying to post a pivot?] He played football and baseball and was almost recruited by the Phillies. Quote: In an interview with Rolling Stone, it was discovered that a young Donald Trump was scouted by the Phillies. Trump was "a star first baseman." "He was good-hit and good-field: We had scouts from the Phillies to watch him, but he wanted to go to college and make real money." The Phillies weren't the only team to get a peek at The Donald, though—according to the Daily Mail, the Red Sox also paid the young cadet captain a visit. __________________ Jesus, protect and save the unborn. The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.   #334   Mar 28, '17, 11:59 am lmachine Regular Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Posts: 2,004 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs FWIW Dick Cheney weighs in: "There's no question that there was a very serious effort made by Mr. Putin and his government, his organization, to interfere in major ways with our basic fundamental democratic processes," Cheney said. "In some quarters, that could be considered an act of war. http://www.businessinsider.com/dick-...-of-war-2017-3 This is one of the most interesting remarks so far. Cheney publicly emphasizing that that Russian interference could constitute an act of war means anyone who assisted or worked with Russia may have committed treason. This sentiment has been slowly coming out from conservative quarters, and with the continued silence from Flynn people seem to know where this whole thing is headed.   #335   Mar 28, '17, 12:05 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine This is one of the most interesting remarks so far. Cheney publicly emphasizing that that Russian interference could constitute an act of war means anyone who assisted or worked with Russia may have committed treason. This sentiment has been slowly coming out from conservative quarters, and with the continued silence from Flynn people seem to know where this whole thing is headed. I realize hope springs eternal with those who hate Trump, but this is just not going to happen.   #336   Mar 28, '17, 12:29 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,919 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini 7 Sorrows and Monte, Still waiting on some explanation on my hypocrisy and double standards. Or is the lack of a response just an implicit admission it was just a baseless kneejerk response? not getting e-mail notifications and the fact I have more important things to do than be on CAF all day have prevented me from responding more quickly. maybe if you would not be taking potshots at Trump about bone spurs and evading the draft. Military service is military service whether you are drafted or sign up voluntarily. Obama never served in the military nor did Bill or Hillary. Bernie doesn't strike me as one who would serve but I might be wrong. I don't know that much about Bernie. I am sure there ars other high profile democrats who never served. I know John Kerry did - not sure about Al Gore. It gets old seeing Trump being attacked because he grew up wealthy and rode to school in limousines and somehow avoided the draft because he was wealthy. Maybe he really had bone spurs. I don't know. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #337   Mar 28, '17, 12:30 pm lmachine Regular Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Posts: 2,004 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I realize hope springs eternal with those who hate Trump, but this is just not going to happen. I think actual treason charges are unlikely but this isn't going to go away.   #338   Mar 28, '17, 12:54 pm BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Military service is military service whether you are drafted or sign up voluntarily. So someone who dips out of a draft during wartime is the same as someone who decides not to enlist during peacetime? Yeah, okay. Besides, why is it relevant what other people did or didn't do? We're not talking about them and it's not like I was praising them as models of patriotic virtue anyway. If you want to start a thread called "Bill Clinton was a draft dodger" I'll post in agreement. But stop trying to muddy the waters when the topic is Trump by pretending that everyone who disagrees with you is some kind of DNC mole. And don't throw around accusations of hypocrisy unless you're prepared to back it up.   #339   Mar 28, '17, 12:56 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine I think actual treason charges are unlikely but this isn't going to go away. It will more like be considered a RICO violation. And you are right; it isn't going away.   #340   Mar 28, '17, 1:20 pm michaelArc Junior Member Join Date: March 13, 2013 Posts: 213 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by dshix The poll is too broad to be meaningful. What kind of "interfere"? Did the Russians spy on political candidates? That would be interference, which makes no difference whatsoever. Did the Russians change the result of the election by causing votes to be counted that did not exist or by causing votes that did exist to not be counted? That would be interference, which would make a massive difference and DOES matter. Did the Russians hack the DNC and reveal the contents of Hillary's email server, exposing to the American people the truth of her irresponsible handling of American intelligence? That would be interference, which probably would make a difference, but would also be an act of service to the American people. The revelation of truth is a good thing. Which parts of these possible "interferences" happened, and which did not? I think that's a better poll question, rather than "Did the Russians interfere in the 2016 election".   #341   Mar 28, '17, 1:26 pm mary bobo Veteran Member Forum Supporter Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10,620 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS The Russians ... yeah ... Representative Maxine Waters of California, a Democrat, wants to know why the Russians want to invade Korea ... [she thinks Korea and Crimea are the same thing.]. I think you are giving her too much credit. __________________ Praying for all CAF intentions.   #342   Mar 28, '17, 1:30 pm ProdigalSun Regular Member Join Date: February 1, 2005 Posts: 1,230 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? I will answer the poll when there is proof that the Russians actually did something to intefere with the election. Everyone here thinks russia did or didn't do it and no side has proof either way. WIth no proof one should always give the accussed the benefit of the doubt.   #343   Mar 28, '17, 1:32 pm ProdigalSun Regular Member Join Date: February 1, 2005 Posts: 1,230 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine This is one of the most interesting remarks so far. Cheney publicly emphasizing that that Russian interference could constitute an act of war means anyone who assisted or worked with Russia may have committed treason. This sentiment has been slowly coming out from conservative quarters, and with the continued silence from Flynn people seem to know where this whole thing is headed. I can see how cheney could be right here. Problem is no one knows who exactly did what so I would say it is hard to go to war under those circumstances!   #344   Mar 28, '17, 3:19 pm Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monkey1976 And how have you been, Sen. McCarthy? I guess it is true that the parties have swapped positions. Now, it's the Democrats blaming everything on the EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL Russians. Generally, McCarthyism is seen as a bad thing. Is it now acceptable because it's being pushed by the left? One thing I still haven't seen an answer to: In what way did Russia supposedly "interfere"? I will look up the title of the book, but Ann Coulter wrote a book about the late Senator McCarthy. Probably Trump read it. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #345   Mar 28, '17, 3:26 pm lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Theo520 I haven't read every post, but has someone located evidence that it was actually the Russians who released the DNC emails? Logical guess is not sufficient. The NSA and FBI said they knew it was the Russians, but I forgot how they knew (and I don't think they revealed exactly how they knew.....you know how secretive those types are). Basically what they said was that: A) Russian interference was definite (and in fact they were surprised that the Russians made it so obvious), B) but whether there was "coordination" from the Trump campaign was still under investigation and not yet ascertained. Note that A does not prove or even imply B. That's why this post is only about A, even tho it might be interesting to speculate about B, we should all be careful not to make claims about B. I think I linked the transcript, but here it is again; you can look and see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f2d7f6a5e424 _____________________________ It has occurred to me that some people here at CAF tune into some weirdo bizarro-world fake news sources that come up with off-the-wall claims -- maybe Fox, maybe Breitbart, or....I don't even know all of them and have tuned them out long ago because of their fallacious claims re climate change. They just aren't to be trusted on anything. __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus Mar 28, '17, 3:53 pm BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS I will look up the title of the book, but Ann Coulter wrote a book about the late Senator McCarthy. Probably Trump read it. Should I just give up hope on getting any clarification of what you meant when you said I was using "different criteria" a few pages back? I'm sorry to be a bit of a bulldog about this, but I kind of hit my limit today with people disingenuously accusing me of being a Clinton supporter when A) I'm not B) I wasn't talking about Clinton in the first place and C) even if I was, it would have nothing to do with what I actually said. If you're going to take potshots, either have the courage to defend them or the grace to withdraw them.   #347   Mar 28, '17, 4:20 pm Abynissa Regular Member Join Date: June 2, 2015 Posts: 517 Religion: Skeptic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Manafort-Linked Accounts on Cyprus Raised Red Flag NBC LIMASSOL, Cyprus — A bank in Cyprus investigated accounts associated with President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, for possible money-laundering, two banking sources with direct knowledge of his businesses here told NBC News. Manafort — whose ties to a Russian oligarch close to President Vladimir Putin are under scrutiny — was associated with at least 15 bank accounts and 10 companies on Cyprus, dating back to 2007, the sources said. At least one of those companies was used to receive millions of dollars from a billionaire Putin ally, according to court documents. Banking sources said some transactions on Manafort-associated accounts raised sufficient concern to trigger an internal investigation at a Cypriot bank into potential money laundering activities. After questions were raised, Manafort closed the accounts, the banking sources said. Offshore banking in Cyprus is not illegal, and the island has long been known as a hub for moving money in and out of Russia. Several U.S. lawmakers have raised questions about Manafort's business dealings in Cyprus. -   #348   Mar 28, '17, 4:32 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 It will more like be considered a RICO violation. And you are right; it isn't going away. Oh, I think the Clinton's might be closer to a RICO investigation.   #349   Mar 28, '17, 5:00 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Oh, I think the Clinton's might be closer to a RICO investigation. I guess we'll see.   #350   Mar 28, '17, 5:02 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Abynissa Manafort-Linked Accounts on Cyprus Raised Red Flag NBC LIMASSOL, Cyprus — A bank in Cyprus investigated accounts associated with President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, for possible money-laundering, two banking sources with direct knowledge of his businesses here told NBC News. Manafort — whose ties to a Russian oligarch close to President Vladimir Putin are under scrutiny — was associated with at least 15 bank accounts and 10 companies on Cyprus, dating back to 2007, the sources said. At least one of those companies was used to receive millions of dollars from a billionaire Putin ally, according to court documents. Banking sources said some transactions on Manafort-associated accounts raised sufficient concern to trigger an internal investigation at a Cypriot bank into potential money laundering activities. After questions were raised, Manafort closed the accounts, the banking sources said. Offshore banking in Cyprus is not illegal, and the island has long been known as a hub for moving money in and out of Russia. Several U.S. lawmakers have raised questions about Manafort's business dealings in Cyprus. - Chris Hayes is reporting on this now if you are interested   #351   Mar 28, '17, 5:18 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 I guess we'll see. One thing for sure: the level of corruption or alleged corruption is commensurate to the level of power in Washington. Time to reimpose the strict enumerated powers and the 10th amendment   #352   Mar 28, '17, 5:57 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Throw em all in jail! We have no evidence, unlike a woman I know, but lets make up theories and throw them in jail. Evidence doesn't matter anymore and even then you can get out of jail by beinng a confused old lady who happens to be runninng for President. A good one, Mike. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #353   Mar 28, '17, 5:59 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner There it is, then. Everybody who is acting strangely is in league with the Russians. And anybody who doesn't recognize that those people are acting strangely is in league with the Russians as well. And nobody who is acting strangely or refusing to recognize that they're acting strangely should be able to investigate anything. Only those who express conviction that Trump is in league with the Russians regardless of there being no evidence that there was, should be allowed to investigate. Obviously, that would disqualify Clapper, Comey and just about anybody but Schiff, Pelosi, Waters, and Schumer. I agree. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #354   Mar 28, '17, 6:05 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Of course it is. What people refer to is the degree of strength of that mandate, and as I've said, Trump's is not as strong as, say Reagan's, but he clearly has a popular mandate I have not gone through all the posts but Jon is right. Mandate has to be understood in the context of the election system of how the President is elected. And when he did, he got the mandate, whatever it is, to rule and to be President. In that sense it makes no meaning to speak about popular votes, other than just pure academic, since it did not affect and influence anything as regards to his win. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #355   Mar 28, '17, 6:08 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lynnvinc Lock 'em all up. Or, build a border wall and call America "prison"! You cannot be serious. Really? How do you get to this conclusion? __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #356   Mar 28, '17, 6:50 pm Abynissa Regular Member Join Date: June 2, 2015 Posts: 517 Religion: Skeptic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Trump's business network reached alleged Russian mobsters USA TODAY To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor. The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering. Trump told reporters in February: "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all." Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia's rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors. Five years earlier, Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York. New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise.... -   #357   Mar 28, '17, 8:09 pm LeafByNiggle Veteran Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 10,599 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Reuben J I have not gone through all the posts but Jon is right. Mandate has to be understood in the context of the election system of how the President is elected. And when he did, he got the mandate, whatever it is, to rule and to be President. In that sense it makes no meaning to speak about popular votes, other than just pure academic, since it did not affect and influence anything as regards to his win. As long as you stick to the definition and understanding Jon gave for "mandate" meaning "authorized to act as President", what you just said would be true. But the meaning that some people assign to the word "mandate" is related to a large margin of victory and implicit support of the large portion of the electorate for specific policies. None of that is true for Trump. He neither had a large margin of victory nor can it be said that his policies have a majority of the voters supporting them. But he did have a mandate in the more limited sense.   #358   Mar 28, '17, 8:18 pm _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,531 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Abynissa Manafort-Linked Accounts on Cyprus Raised Red Flag NBC LIMASSOL, Cyprus — A bank in Cyprus investigated accounts associated with President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, for possible money-laundering, two banking sources with direct knowledge of his businesses here told NBC News. Manafort — whose ties to a Russian oligarch close to President Vladimir Putin are under scrutiny — was associated with at least 15 bank accounts and 10 companies on Cyprus, dating back to 2007, the sources said. At least one of those companies was used to receive millions of dollars from a billionaire Putin ally, according to court documents. Banking sources said some transactions on Manafort-associated accounts raised sufficient concern to trigger an internal investigation at a Cypriot bank into potential money laundering activities. After questions were raised, Manafort closed the accounts, the banking sources said. Offshore banking in Cyprus is not illegal, and the island has long been known as a hub for moving money in and out of Russia. Several U.S. lawmakers have raised questions about Manafort's business dealings in Cyprus. - Given that this was investigated, I presume nothing to implicate Manafort was discovered? Even if Manafort engaged in illegal deals as a private person in 2007, the report you posted reveals nothing of any evidence regarding any collusion with Russians on his part to effect the US election in 2016. Last edited by _Abyssinia; Mar 28, '17 at 8:36 pm.   #359   Mar 28, '17, 8:28 pm _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,531 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Abynissa Trump's business network reached alleged Russian mobsters USA TODAY To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor. The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering. Trump told reporters in February: "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all." Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia's rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors. Five years earlier, Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York. New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise.... - What does this have to do with the US election? Just because Donald Trump said he did not have any deals with Russia is not at conflict with the fact that he said he has a "great relationship" with Russians. Trump is a wealthy businessman, and as a businessman his company did deals with Russians in regards to real estate in places like New York and Dubai, locations that the report notes. This says nothing about the US election at all. Find others who are in the same business as Trump and they probably do deals with Russians in regards to real estate too in places like New York. And as for any crime connections in regards to some of these Russians, how would Donald Trump a) know what their past connections may have been? and b) if these Russians emigrated to the USA legally (which I assume they did on a permanent basis I presume?), then they must have had their criminal records presumably checked in the immigration process, prior to being able to enter the country to live in America, and they were allowed by immigration officials into the USA?   #360   Mar 28, '17, 10:35 pm lmachine Regular Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Posts: 2,004 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Graham: Nunes May Have 'Lost His Ability To Lead' Russia Probe Quote: Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Tuesday morning said that House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes' (R-CA) "objectivity" was in question and encouraged him to share information with the rest of his committee. [...] Lauer asked Graham if Nunes should recuse himself from any probes involving Trump, such as the committee's investigation into Russian interference in the U.S. election. "I think you put his objectivity in question at the very least," Graham replied. The senator said that Nunes must share the information he received from a secret source with the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. "If he’s not willing to tell the Democrats and Republicans on the committee who he met with and what he was told, then I think he’s lost his ability to lead," Graham said. Nunes announced today he wouldn't be sharing his information or source with the rest of the committee. Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia Quote: The Trump administration sought to block former acting attorney general Sally Yates from testifying in the House investigation of possible links between Russian officials and Donald Trump’s campaign, according to letters provided to The Washington Post. The effort to keep Yates from testifying has further angered Democrats, who have accused Republicans of trying to damage the inquiry. According to the letters, the Justice Department notified Yates earlier this month that the administration considers her possible testimony — including on the ouster of former national security adviser Michael Flynn for his contacts with the Russian ambassador — to be off-limits in a congressional hearing because the topics are covered by attorney-client privilege or the presidential communication privilege. [...] But that same day, the hearing, which also would have included former CIA director John Brennan and former director of national intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., was canceled by the House Intelligence Committee’s chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), and any White House decision on Yates’s testimony became moot. In his Tuesday briefing, press secretary Sean Spicer said that the White House did not weigh in on whether Yates could testify. “To suggest in any way, shape or form that we stood in the way of that is 100 percent false,” he said. Nunes has said he canceled the hearing to first hear from FBI Director James B. Comey in a classified setting. That session was also canceled. Devin Nunes Should Step Down as Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Quote: Let’s begin with two assertions, both of which should be inarguable. First, no one in Washington is entitled to any position of power or responsibility. Second, the greater the power or responsibility, the more integrity, character, and — crucially — competence we should expect from our public officials. Or, to put it plainly, to whom much is given, much is required. By that standard, why is Devin Nunes still chairman of the House Intelligence Committee? [...] Enter Devin Nunes. After first saying that he believed Trump’s tweeted allegations were “wrong” on March 22, he conducted a short press conference on White House grounds to declare that he’d obtained documents indicating that White House officials (and maybe even the president) had been monitored as part of relatively routine surveillance of foreign officials. Oddly, however, he’d apparently rushed to the White House to present this evidence without sharing it with members of his own committee. This was a breach of protocol, but not on its face a firing offense. Nunes apologized, and the storm seemed set to pass. Then the story got stranger still. Yesterday Nunes acknowledged that he traveled to the White House before his March 22 press conference to review secret documents in the White House’s possession, then used the contents of those documents to “brief” the president and the press. In other words, the White House appeared to be using Nunes to brief itself. Rather than state its own case with its own evidence, it used Nunes to make it appear as if external investigation had at least partially validated Trump’s tweets. Just at the time when the nation desperately needs adults to step forward who can give the public confidence that they not only understand the stakes of the Russia investigation, they also can be entrusted to conduct that investigation in good faith, Nunes unnecessarily poured gasoline on an already-raging fire. The American body politic is awash in conspiracy theories, mistrust, and wild claims of espionage and criminality. It needs leaders. It needs competence. It needs integrity. [...] Are you unconvinced? Let’s indulge in the simplest exercise in political integrity. If the roles were reversed, what would you argue? If Adam Schiff was the chairman, Hillary Clinton was president, and Schiff was secretly meeting at the White House for solo briefings then presenting that same “evidence” to the press as if he’d discovered it, you’d want him to step down. And you’d be right. Mar 28, '17, 11:44 pm lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine Graham: Nunes May Have 'Lost His Ability To Lead' Russia Probe Nunes announced today he wouldn't be sharing his information or source with the rest of the committee. Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia Devin Nunes Should Step Down as Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee One news commentator suggested that Nunes has purposely derailed the House Intelligence Committee to put it out of commission since it was getting too close to the truth. As Pontius Pilate said, "What is truth?" __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #362   Mar 29, '17, 1:56 am Michael68 Banned Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Abynissa Trump's business network reached alleged Russian mobsters USA TODAY To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor. The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering. Trump told reporters in February: "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all." Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia's rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors. Five years earlier, Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York. New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise.... - Lots of "could be" and "alleged" and of course the unnamed source!!!!   #363   Mar 29, '17, 3:02 am Monte RCMS Forum Master Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 14,691 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Abynissa Trump's business network reached alleged Russian mobsters USA TODAY To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor. The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering. Trump told reporters in February: "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all." Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia's rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors. Five years earlier, Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York. New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise.... - You realize that the UN building itself is a scam ... it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag. __________________ Come, Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created. And You will renew the face of the earth.   #364   Mar 29, '17, 6:02 am Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS You realize that the UN building itself is a scam ... it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag. Have you ever been there? It's prime.   #365   Mar 29, '17, 7:14 am lmachine Regular Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Posts: 2,004 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS You realize that the UN building itself is a scam ... it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag. lol please don't leave me holding waterfront Manhattan real estate, there's no demand for it!   #366   Mar 29, '17, 7:34 am lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS You realize that the UN building itself is a scam ... it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag. And as my mom (an ardent Republican) pointed out, the Kennedys made their wealth on boot-legging. Which reminds me when I moved down south and joined my new OCDS (secular Carmelite) group and we went out to dinner I saw a few ordering wine. I was a bit astonished and said that the group up north doesn't drink. To which one of the men replied, "Are you sure they're Catholic?" __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #367   Mar 29, '17, 10:45 am BoomBoomMancini Regular Member Join Date: July 13, 2016 Posts: 1,501 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini Should I just give up hope on getting any clarification of what you meant when you said I was using "different criteria" a few pages back? I'm sorry to be a bit of a bulldog about this, but I kind of hit my limit today with people disingenuously accusing me of being a Clinton supporter when A) I'm not B) I wasn't talking about Clinton in the first place and C) even if I was, it would have nothing to do with what I actually said. If you're going to take potshots, either have the courage to defend them or the grace to withdraw them. Quote: Originally Posted by Monte RCMS You realize that the UN building itself is a scam ... I'm going to go ahead and assume the lack of response is an admission that you implying I'm somehow a hypocrite was a baseless, partisan, paint-by-numbers response, since you appear to be unable or unwilling to explain what these "different criteria" are with anything other than a terse "got it." In the future, please don't throw shade that you're not willing to defend. I'm happy to have a discussion all day, but I'm not a fan of drive by accusations. I know I'm perhaps a little over invested in this exchange, but I've really hit my limit with non-sequitur responses that just baselessly accuse someone of supporting (insert Democratic Party politician here) whenever something critical of Donald Trump comes up. It really is a cancer around here.   #368   Mar 29, '17, 10:47 am SuperLuigi Forum Elder Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 Have you ever been there? It's prime. So what? __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #369   Mar 29, '17, 12:11 pm lynnvinc Regular Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by BoomBoomMancini I'm going to go ahead and assume the lack of response is an admission that you implying I'm somehow a hypocrite was a baseless, partisan, paint-by-numbers response, since you appear to be unable or unwilling to explain what these "different criteria" are with anything other than a terse "got it." In the future, please don't throw shade that you're not willing to defend. I'm happy to have a discussion all day, but I'm not a fan of drive by accusations. I know I'm perhaps a little over invested in this exchange, but I've really hit my limit with non-sequitur responses that just baselessly accuse someone of supporting (insert Democratic Party politician here) whenever something critical of Donald Trump comes up. It really is a cancer around here. Once McCarthyism really sets in and people right and left are getting labelled as anti-democracy Russian-collaborators, I'm thinking there will be fewer and fewer CAFers jumping up to defend Trump no matter what. In fact my thinking is that during the primaries most CAFers planning to vote Republican (and pro-life) were in favor of other candidates (like Santorum or Cruz) and actually pretty much against Trump, until he became it. __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #370   Mar 29, '17, 1:49 pm Sojourner003 Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2017 Posts: 1,332 Religion: Cradle Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by SuperLuigi So what? So it's not undesirable swampland as the poster claimed.   #371   Mar 29, '17, 3:33 pm Abynissa Regular Member Join Date: June 2, 2015 Posts: 517 Religion: Skeptic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Bank that Kushner met with paid Russian intelligence agent's legal tab CNN As federal prosecutors in New York prepared their case against a man accused of covertly working for Russian intelligence two years ago, they began raising questions about an unidentified "third party" paying the defendant's legal bills. The defendant's benefactor turned out to be VneshEconomBank, the same financial institution at the center of a recent controversy over its chairman's meeting with Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump's son-in-law and one of his top White House advisers. On the one it hand it should be no surprise that bank, also known as VEB, was paying for Evgeny Buryakov's legal defense -- Buryakov was one of its employees, after all. But what made the matter more complicated was what Buryakov was charged with illegally gathering intelligence on behalf of the Russian government and the Russian government owned the bank that provided his cover. Prosecutors were concerned about a potential conflict in which the interests of the entity paying the bill may outweigh the interests of the defendant, resulting in an unfair trial and perhaps creating the basis for an appeal. The case was closely watched at the time by a top official at the bank and representatives of the Russian embassy in New York, one lawyer familiar with the matter told CNN. The case offers a view into the murky world of Russian intelligence gathering at a time when that country's efforts -- and their potential intersection with the American political process -- are under intense scrutiny.... ...Following all the legal wrangling, Buryakov pleaded guilty in March 2016 to conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the Russian Federation in the US. He was sentenced to two and half years in federal prison. Prosecutors said Buryakov used his cover as a bank employee to work for Russia's SVR, the country's version of the CIA. -   #372   Mar 29, '17, 4:42 pm JonNC Forum Elder Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine lol please don't leave me holding waterfront Manhattan real estate, there's no demand for it! Won't it be under water some time in May 2017 because of Trump's executive order on emissions?   #373   Mar 29, '17, 5:03 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Won't it be under water some time in May 2017 because of Trump's executive order on emissions? Makes me wonder why all these rich liberals have beachfront property. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #374   Mar 29, '17, 7:13 pm Reuben J Veteran Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Posts: 9,259 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by _Abyssinia What does this have to do with the US election? Just because Donald Trump said he did not have any deals with Russia is not at conflict with the fact that he said he has a "great relationship" with Russians. Trump is a wealthy businessman, and as a businessman his company did deals with Russians in regards to real estate in places like New York and Dubai, locations that the report notes. This says nothing about the US election at all. Find others who are in the same business as Trump and they probably do deals with Russians in regards to real estate too in places like New York. And as for any crime connections in regards to some of these Russians, how would Donald Trump a) know what their past connections may have been? and b) if these Russians emigrated to the USA legally (which I assume they did on a permanent basis I presume?), then they must have had their criminal records presumably checked in the immigration process, prior to being able to enter the country to live in America, and they were allowed by immigration officials into the USA? True enough. Big business may be global in nature and thus dealing with businessmen of different nationalities is not uncommon. Most likely business is conducted differently compared to how one goes about in discharging official government duty. Besides, one may not have the mechanism to check your business partners that the government has. So yes, it can be two different things. __________________ Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world. Life begins at conception not implantation.   #375   Mar 29, '17, 8:27 pm St Francis Forum Elder Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,504 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 Have you ever been there? It's prime. Quote: Originally Posted by Sojourner003 So it's not undesirable swampland as the poster claimed. I used to live near some land that no one would build on because the soil was such that it would have cost 2 or 3 times as much to build a structure on than normal. For over 40 years, no one built there. Then with the housing market bubble, it became cost-effective to build on and so someone did. The UN building may well have been built on land which would have been too expensive to build on in the normal way of things, but with the UN or the government funding the construction, was viable. IOW, the government as usual got a bad deal. And now that the building has been built, the property is, many decades and a huge increase in population and housing prices later, prime real estate. So everyone can be right and be happy __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948 Apr 13, '17, 10:56 am sallybutler Regular Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 3,740 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Didn't answer my question. What did they do? Tillerson didn't give the details. .He just said they did interfere. __________________ 'Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.' James 1:26   #767   Apr 13, '17, 11:01 am ProVobis Forum Elder   Join Date: January 26, 2008 Posts: 43,250 Religion: Catholic Re: Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable? Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Again, it is the law, they way the laws are written. It isn't pretend. It isn't public assistance. They paid for it , about 15% of their pay. They are entitled to have that money returned to them. Are these constitutional? Of course not, but the money was confiscated nonetheless and those who were coerced to paid in deserve their money back. Nonetheless Congress has the power to repeal all Social Security and Medicare programs. Whether it's deserved or not is another matter.