What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo

Apr 14, '17, 12:21 pm

Maxirad Regular Member   Join Date: May 2, 2011 Posts: 2,261 Religion: Roman Catholic

What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo https://www.tvinsider.com/157183/pbs...e-for-viewers/

#2   Apr 14, '17, 12:45 pm

gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo So shortsighted and sad.

#3   Apr 14, '17, 1:09 pm

St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,504 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo First, the Feds supply only 14% of PBS and NPR funding, and second, Sesame Street has moved to HBO, and third, Sesame Street had a HUGE revenue from selling Muppets and it's brand for lunch boxes and the like. Originally, public broadcasting was set up because they were supposed to support the sort of programming that was not commercially viable. This is no longer the case. And they are extremely biased in their reporting; why should my taxes go to that? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948

#4   Apr 14, '17, 1:11 pm

Catholic1954 Senior Member   Join Date: December 9, 2008 Posts: 6,691 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo I would miss "Antiques Roadshow".

#5   Apr 14, '17, 1:14 pm

MaryT777 Forum Master   Join Date: November 23, 2012 Posts: 14,367 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis First, the Feds supply only 14% of PBS and NPR funding, and second, Sesame Street has moved to HBO, and third, Sesame Street had a HUGE revenue from selling Muppets and it's brand for lunch boxes and the like. Originally, public broadcasting was set up because they were supposed to support the sort of programming that was not commercially viable. This is no longer the case. And they are extremely biased in their reporting; why should my taxes go to that?

#6   Apr 14, '17, 1:21 pm

WKW_69 Junior Member   Join Date: February 2, 2014 Posts: 487 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Maxirad https://www.tvinsider.com/157183/pbs...e-for-viewers/ It is time to end support for PBS. There are hundreds of channels available for cable and satellite. They can fund their programming with advertisements and stay a not for profit corporation.

#7   Apr 14, '17, 1:40 pm

ChurchSoldier Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2012 Posts: 3,403 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Catholic1954 I would miss "Antiques Roadshow". I would think that show could make it on a commercial basis. __________________ Be nice. Everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about FWIW I generally don't subscribe or follow the threads where I make comments. If you would like to engage please send me a pm and the thread title and I'll go back to it.

#8   Apr 14, '17, 1:49 pm

Michael68 Banned   Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by ChurchSoldier I would think that show could make it on a commercial basis. I agree. I bet several cable networks would be interested. I'm a fan

#9   Apr 14, '17, 1:51 pm

JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,533

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Amusingly enough it is a product of a state funded TV network if we are thinking about the British programme and not an American copy of it.

#10   Apr 14, '17, 1:56 pm

Allegra Veteran Member   Join Date: July 11, 2011 Posts: 10,456 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo I'm fairly certain that federal funds only account for a small amount of PBS's budget. They could get rid of Calliou.

#11   Apr 14, '17, 2:07 pm

randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by WKW_69 It is time to end support for PBS. There are hundreds of channels available for cable and satellite. They can fund their programming with advertisements and stay a not for profit corporation. : I'm ok with Trump cutting PBS as long as he stops gouging taxpayers for his weekly golfing trips to Mar-a-Lago (a demonstrable strain on both national security and taxpayers' pocketbooks.) It seems odd that he always has the money for golfing when he's already on track to out-deficit spend Reagan.

#12   Apr 14, '17, 2:19 pm

Jeanne S Veteran Member   Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 10,856 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis First, the Feds supply only 14% of PBS and NPR funding, and second, Sesame Street has moved to HBO, and third, Sesame Street had a HUGE revenue from selling Muppets and it's brand for lunch boxes and the like. Originally, public broadcasting was set up because they were supposed to support the sort of programming that was not commercially viable. This is no longer the case. And they are extremely biased in their reporting; why should my taxes go to that? I couldn't agree more!

#13   Apr 14, '17, 2:55 pm

gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis And they are extremely biased in their reporting

#14   Apr 14, '17, 3:43 pm

EmeraldOak Regular Member   Join Date: December 24, 2013 Posts: 1,432 Religion: Catholic

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis First, the Feds supply only 14% of PBS and NPR funding, and second, Sesame Street has moved to HBO, and third, Sesame Street had a HUGE revenue from selling Muppets and it's brand for lunch boxes and the like. Originally, public broadcasting was set up because they were supposed to support the sort of programming that was not commercially viable. This is no longer the case. And they are extremely biased in their reporting; why should my taxes go to that?

#15   Apr 14, '17, 3:43 pm

PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran

Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo PBS...the right's favorite whipping boy. Somehow no one is concerned that we've just spent as much blowing up a few square feet of earth in foreign countries as PBS gets in a year. It's also one of the only remaining sources of good documentary TV left. The Discovery and History channels are more interest in fat dudes living in a swamp and people that can't stop having children. Whether you think is has a more liberal bias not it has much higher journalistic standards than most. In a world of news driven by corporate profits that are maximised by getting people angry at a sectarian level, it represent the way it used to be done. Cable news has played a big part in the polarization of this country. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.      Apr 14, '17, 4:37 pm lynnvinc Regular Member   Join Date: May 20, 2010 Posts: 5,187 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo I think it is up to Congress to decide whether or not to support public broadcasting. If it goes, it won't affect me, since we watch other channels, but I know some poor people who cannot afford many of the channels on cable. __________________ "The Lord God lives before whom I stand." -- 1 Kings 17:1 "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words." -- St. Francis of Assisi "I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth." -- St. Therese of the Child Jesus   #17   Apr 14, '17, 5:30 pm ucfengr Regular Member   Join Date: July 25, 2014 Posts: 4,154 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Budget cuts won't hurt Elmo or Big Bird, which are more than capable of surviving on their own. They won't hurt Ken Burns documentaries which makes millions per year. What it will hurt is shows that about 12 elitists in NYC and Washington DC watch, like Opera Tonight, or The Latest in Performance Art (Now With More Chocolate Covered Artists).   #18   Apr 15, '17, 6:52 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Sesame Street can survive just fine in the free market. There are large demands. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #19   Apr 15, '17, 7:18 pm I trust Junior Member   Join Date: September 24, 2011 Posts: 441 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo PBS has been pushing the gay agenda (and now Trans agenda) for a long time. For example from PBS.org: Celebrate Pride Month this June and every day with PBS! Explore a special collection of films, series and short stories that explore the LGBT experience in the United States and around the world.... ------------------------------------------- Growing Up Trans is an intimate look at the struggles and choices facing transgender kids and their families. Just a generation ago, it was adults, not kids, who changed genders. But today, many children are transitioning, too — with new medical options, and at younger and younger ages. In "Growing Up Trans," a 90-minute special -------------------------------------------------------------- A Self-Made Man is a look at what it means to be transgender told through Tony Ferraiolo. Gender identity issues often appear in early childhood. Some kids, feel they were born in the wrong body and this belief creates conflict in how they view and define themselves. Educator and activist Tony Ferraiolo knows this from experience. As an adult, he successfully transitioned from being female to male. ---------------------------------------------------------------- First Person is a new show about gender identity, sexuality and queer community. Hosted by Kristin Russo of Everyone is Gay on PBS Digital Studios. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Out & Proud in Chicago examines the history of Chicago's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT). Presented by WTTW. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Kumu Hina tells the inspiring story of Hina Wong-Kalu, a transgender hula teacher who brings to life Hawaii's traditional embrace of māhū - those who embody both male and female spirit. Over the course of a year, Hina inspires a young student to claim her place as leader of an all-male hula troupe, while Hina herself pursues a fulfilling romantic relationship with a headstrong Tongan man --------------------------------------------------------------------- Limited Partnership is the story of one gay couple, a Filipino American and an Australian, who fell in love and over the course of 40 years took on the U.S. government to fight for marriage and immigration equality. Etc. etc. It is time that my taxes stop paying for Trans advocacy.   #20   Apr 15, '17, 7:25 pm victrolatim Junior Member   Join Date: May 18, 2015 Posts: 437 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo People rip their hair out like the government funds 100% of PBS, which it does not (as stated earlier). I'm sure some rich liberal will be happy to fund that 14%.   #21   Apr 15, '17, 10:34 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by victrolatim People rip their hair out like the government funds 100% of PBS, which it does not (as stated earlier). I'm sure some rich liberal will be happy to fund that 14%. Getting liberals to fund things from their own stock would be harder than pulling hair of head. But, Sesame Street is popular and there is high demand. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #22   Apr 16, '17, 6:12 am PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by I trust PBS has been pushing the gay agenda (and now Trans agenda) for a long time. {...} It is time that my taxes stop paying for Trans advocacy. And I have a 4 hour PBS documentary about the development of Christianity on my DVR and an NPR show on right now interviewing (for an hour) a Catholic contemplative. I'd suppose atheists are ticked off about their tax dollars also. ....and my cable bill goes in part to support the distribution of ETWN. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.   #23   Apr 16, '17, 6:30 am I trust Junior Member   Join Date: September 24, 2011 Posts: 441 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by PJH_74 And I have a 4 hour PBS documentary about the development of Christianity on my DVR and an NPR show on right now interviewing (for an hour) a Catholic contemplative. I'd suppose atheists are ticked off about their tax dollars also. ....and my cable bill goes in part to support the distribution of ETWN. Your cable subscription is voluntary. Huge difference.   #24   Apr 16, '17, 6:36 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,533 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Americans would probably be unamused by the fact that in the UK and Ireland anyone who owns as TV is required by law to pay a licencing fee to support the state broadcasters of both nations.   #25   Apr 16, '17, 6:40 am Mary Gail 36 Forum Elder   Join Date: September 5, 2005 Posts: 17,461 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian Americans would probably be unamused by the fact that in the UK and Ireland anyone who owns as TV is required by law to pay a licencing fee to support the state broadcasters of both nations. I remember in Italy there being a tax on tv as well to support RAI. RAI had no advertising. __________________ Jesus, protect and save the unborn. The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.   #26   Apr 16, '17, 6:40 am exnihilo Regular Member   Join Date: June 13, 2011 Posts: 4,739 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo It's simply not the job of the federal government to be in media. But it's impossible to stop at this point. Quote: Originally Posted by ucfengr Budget cuts won't hurt Elmo or Big Bird, which are more than capable of surviving on their own. They won't hurt Ken Burns documentaries which makes millions per year. What it will hurt is shows that about 12 elitists in NYC and Washington DC watch, like Opera Tonight, or The Latest in Performance Art (Now With More Chocolate Covered Artists). Actually the government always takes away the most popular things during budget cuts and leaves the least popular or hated. It doesn't work like a real business that serves customers in any way. Thus during the last federal budget dust up they make sure to shutdown national parks, something people like, while keeping running all their other odious endeavors. __________________ We fear men so much, because we fear God so little. One fear cures another. When man's terror scares you, turn your thoughts to the wrath of God. — GK Chesterton   #27   Apr 16, '17, 6:44 am Michael68 Banned   Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by victrolatim People rip their hair out like the government funds 100% of PBS, which it does not (as stated earlier). I'm sure some rich liberal will be happy to fund that 14%. The hysteria on the left about this is totally unwarranted   #28   Apr 16, '17, 6:48 am PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by I trust Your cable subscription is voluntary. Huge difference. It's a package deal that I can't break out individual channels on. Still not addressing the religious programming on PBS/NPR. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.   #29   Apr 16, '17, 8:48 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo We'll merely see commercial advertising on PBS, which it does now, only in large blocks before the program. Whatever they do to eliminate the fundraising segments, I'm all for it. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #30   Apr 16, '17, 11:33 am gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by ucfengr Budget cuts won't hurt Elmo or Big Bird, which are more than capable of surviving on their own. They won't hurt Ken Burns documentaries which makes millions per year. What it will hurt is shows that about 12 elitists in NYC and Washington DC watch, like Opera Tonight, or The Latest in Performance Art (Now With More Chocolate Covered Artists). Yeah, who are the weirdos who appreciate things like opera? Elite losers obviously. No need to expose anyone to that sort of drivel, especially those for whom public television may be the only outlet to provide such exposure.    Apr 16, '17, 11:46 am Inisfallen Regular Member   Join Date: November 9, 2013 Posts: 1,484 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Yeah, who are the weirdos who appreciate things like opera? Elite losers obviously. No need to expose anyone to that sort of drivel, especially those for whom public television may be the only outlet to provide such exposure. Yeah, I'd miss my opera broadcasts on WNYC. And I really don't think I'm an elitist.   #32   Apr 16, '17, 1:48 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: =gracepoole;14594405]Yeah, who are the weirdos who appreciate things like opera? Elite losers obviously. Nothing like a good ol' strawman to elicit pity. I wish I had an euro every time that happened...... Quote: No need to expose anyone to that sort of drivel, especially those for whom public television may be the only outlet to provide such exposure. Just let the free market work. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #33   Apr 16, '17, 2:10 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Yeah, who are the weirdos who appreciate things like opera? Elite losers obviously. No need to expose anyone to that sort of drivel, especially those for whom public television may be the only outlet to provide such exposure. The people I know who like opera are the types who would pay $90 for a ticket to the opera. Somehow, that group does not seem the most deserving of subsidized entertainment.   #34   Apr 16, '17, 2:27 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by SuperLuigi Nothing like a good ol' strawman to elicit pity. I wish I had an euro every time that happened...... I seriously want to give you a challenge: don't claim ANYTHING is a fallacy for a full 24-hours. C'mon, give it a try. I believe in you! Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The people I know who like opera are the types who would pay $90 for a ticket to the opera. Somehow, that group does not seem the most deserving of subsidized entertainment. Plenty of people live where they can't simply pay for an opera ticket. For years I lived in such an area. If I wanted to travel for several hours, perhaps live opera would have been a possibility. But for all intents and purposes, PBS was my only real opera outlet. Beyond this issue, consider the many who are never exposed to opera but happen to witness one on PBS and become interested.   #35   Apr 16, '17, 2:31 pm NickyMaz New Member   Join Date: March 15, 2017 Posts: 85 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Sorry but PBS and NPR can live without government funding.   #36   Apr 16, '17, 2:42 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Plenty of people live where they can't simply pay for an opera ticket. For years I lived in such an area. If I wanted to travel for several hours, perhaps live opera would have been a possibility. But for all intents and purposes, PBS was my only real opera outlet. Beyond this issue, consider the many who are never exposed to opera but happen to witness one on PBS and become interested. There is plenty of opera available for free on youtube. Also, just because someone cannot easily see an event live does not mean that it requires a government subsidy. Many of those who cannot see live opera conveniently also cannot see major league baseball conveniently. That does not mean that PBS should show MLB.   #37   Apr 16, '17, 4:00 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo PBS has by far the best television on TV however. Call the Midwife Downton Abbey Home Fires Just to name a few. That being said, NatGeo Wild, is able to broadcast great programming as well, showing that commercial TV can be good. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #38   Apr 16, '17, 4:03 pm Jeanne S Veteran Member   Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 10,856 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS PBS has by far the best television on TV however. Call the Midwife Downton Abbey Home Fires Just to name a few. That being said, NatGeo Wild, is able to broadcast great programming as well, showing that commercial TV can be good. Jim Yes,these are very quality programs.I watch them every week.However,they are also available via the internet,so that is an option .   #39   Apr 16, '17, 4:09 pm dvdjs Senior Member   Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Jeanne S Yes,these are very quality programs.I watch them every week.However,they are also available via the internet,so that is an option . It became an option after PBS made them. Is "the internet" making quality programs?   #40   Apr 16, '17, 4:11 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Jeanne S Yes,these are very quality programs.I watch them every week.However,they are also available via the internet,so that is an option . Personally, I prefer to watch them on my 32 inch tv with surround sound over my laptop computer. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #41   Apr 16, '17, 4:18 pm MaryT777 Forum Master   Join Date: November 23, 2012 Posts: 14,367 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 There is plenty of opera available for free on youtube. Also, just because someone cannot easily see an event live does not mean that it requires a government subsidy. Many of those who cannot see live opera conveniently also cannot see major league baseball conveniently. That does not mean that PBS should show MLB.   #42   Apr 16, '17, 5:07 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo The original purpose of government funded public television, was to have programming which wasn't determined by corporations. However, the cost and quality required to bring such programming, required lots of money. Hence, donations from the public in addition to government funding. That didn't make it, so eventually corporate donations were rewarded with advertisement blocks, but were done in a way which didn't make it the same as a commercial on the other networks. I think PBS can move to commercially funded programming, but the BOD's have to remain independent and have the ability to choose the programming they desire without executives of corporations telling them what to broadcast. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #43   Apr 16, '17, 5:09 pm NickyMaz New Member   Join Date: March 15, 2017 Posts: 85 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs It became an option after PBS made them. Is "the internet" making quality programs? PBS didn't make any of those shows! They were made by BBC and ITV in the UK and PBS bought the rights to present them in the US, but any other channel could have done the same thing. Conversely, the 'internet' does make quality programming, Hulu and Netflix make tons of great shows and even feature-length movies.   #44   Apr 16, '17, 5:13 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,044 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by NickyMaz PBS didn't make any of those shows! They were made by BBC and ITV in the UK and PBS bought the rights to present them in the US, but any other channel could have done the same thing. PBS is responsible for Mercy Street, Victory Garden, Nova... All original, not imported by other broadcast companies.   #45   Apr 16, '17, 5:14 pm Jeanne S Veteran Member   Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 10,856 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by NickyMaz PBS didn't make any of those shows! They were made by BBC and ITV in the UK and PBS bought the rights to present them in the US, but any other channel could have done the same thing. Conversely, the 'internet' does make quality programming, Hulu and Netflix make tons of great shows and even feature-length movies. Exactly! Apr 16, '17, 5:18 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis First, the Feds supply only 14% of PBS and NPR funding, and second, Sesame Street has moved to HBO, and third, Sesame Street had a HUGE revenue from selling Muppets and it's brand for lunch boxes and the like. Originally, public broadcasting was set up because they were supposed to support the sort of programming that was not commercially viable. This is no longer the case. And they are extremely biased in their reporting; why should my taxes go to that? But I think you must admit they do have some interesting programs apart from the news reporting.   #47   Apr 16, '17, 5:22 pm tweedlealice Regular Member   Join Date: December 21, 2014 Posts: 964 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian Amusingly enough it is a product of a state funded TV network if we are thinking about the British programme and not an American copy of it. Salutations, We had Barney and Sesame Street before any BBC was ABLE to transmit on our TV's. My son is, good grief, 46yo. He watched them. Now, I give you Antique Road Show. I rarely watch anymore. I do donate because of Barney and Sesame Street. in Christ's love Tweedlealice May God help them to be financially stable and good stewards of their programming. in Jesus's name, Amen   #48   Apr 16, '17, 5:22 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The people I know who like opera are the types who would pay $90 for a ticket to the opera. Somehow, that group does not seem the most deserving of subsidized entertainment. Not true. In my experience, most opera lovers buy subscriptions and sit in the rear balcony since they cannot afford the high-priced orchestra tickets. Of course the elite aficionados may not even go to the opera at all since they believe the quality of singing has declined (like everything else) and the non-period productions are so weird.   #49   Apr 16, '17, 5:24 pm NickyMaz New Member   Join Date: March 15, 2017 Posts: 85 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole PBS is responsible for Mercy Street, Victory Garden, Nova... All original, not imported by other broadcast companies. Yes, they do make some programming but those shows could exist under a system without government funding. I am not saying PBS needs to be shut down, just that it has to make due without government funds. People who enjoy PBS can continue to support it through donations and they can sell ad time to make up the rest.   #50   Apr 16, '17, 5:26 pm dvdjs Senior Member   Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by NickyMaz PBS didn't make any of those shows! They were made by BBC and ITV in the UK and PBS bought the rights to present them in the US, but any other channel could have done the same thing. Conversely, the 'internet' does make quality programming, Hulu and Netflix make tons of great shows and even feature-length movies. Fair enough. Thankfully, against the vast wasteland of commercial programming, there is good programming available from public broadcasting services like BBC in addition to that made by PBS. Not sure about the quality of the other sources you mention.   #51   Apr 16, '17, 5:35 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by NickyMaz PBS didn't make any of those shows! They were made by BBC and ITV in the UK and PBS bought the rights to present them in the US, but any other channel could have done the same thing. Conversely, the 'internet' does make quality programming, Hulu and Netflix make tons of great shows and even feature-length movies. Netflix has the PBS presentation of Call the Midwife and others. Downton Abbey is still not available. Although all produced by the BBC, we would not see them if not for PBS. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #52   Apr 16, '17, 6:10 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser I'm ok with Trump cutting PBS as long as he stops gouging taxpayers for his weekly golfing trips to Mar-a-Lago (a demonstrable strain on both national security and taxpayers' pocketbooks.) It seems odd that he always has the money for golfing when he's already on track to out-deficit spend Reagan. The general government has sn obligation to protect the president. It does not have an enumerated power to pay for radio and tv networks. On the other hand, I too would like to see a balanced budget. Maybe in year two?   #53   Apr 16, '17, 6:17 pm PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo I love PBS, I guess it irks me is the ~$450 Million for PBS has been proposed to be spent on increased military spending. Do we really need more money throw towards our $600 BILLION defence department? I'm also bothered by the pulling of public transit support...jammed up roads and more cars are not going to cut it. My opinion...we need to raise the gas tax to support road reconstruction and public transit development. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.   #54   Apr 16, '17, 6:35 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by PJH_74 I love PBS, I guess it irks me is the ~$450 Million for PBS has been proposed to be spent on increased military spending. Do we really need more money throw towards our $600 BILLION defence department? I'm also bothered by the pulling of public transit support...jammed up roads and more cars are not going to cut it. My opinion...we need to raise the gas tax to support road reconstruction and public transit development. The concerns about defense spending are noted. But every time there's a proposed draw-down in some red or purple district with an unneeded old fort or a withdrawal from Europe or Asia, the usual whining of "where's my government job" ensues. I can guarantee you that a gas tax will not be spent on transportation infrastructure and it will be wasted somewhere down the line, probably sooner rather later. If the Democrats win back Congress in 2018, such a tax would be spent in part or mostly on bondoggle mass transit. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #55   Apr 16, '17, 7:26 pm victrolatim Junior Member   Join Date: May 18, 2015 Posts: 437 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo One thing I wish PBS would do is make available more of its archive of programming. Perhaps this is a way for them to offset the government subsidy. Create a "PBS Archive" and have a viable subscription cost. I am a documentary junkie and although PBS does have a lot available on it's app and website, after a period of time some shows disappear into oblivion unless someone has uploaded a version on Youtube. As for the opera, I am an avid listener and PBS is probably the only higher quality option for visual performances, although I have to agree with some previous posters that some of these newer stage productions are downright strange. I recall a performance of Verdi's "Rigoletto" from the Royal Opera House Covent Garden years ago that had topless women running about the stage. The singing was above average though. Thankfully, the local radio affiliate was carrying the same broadcast so I shut off the TV and turned on the radio. The Met still broadcasts Saturday matinees on the radio though I have found the singing is hit or miss. I forget what performance I tuned into months back (Wagner, I think) where the one contralto had such a horrible wobbly vibrato that she made me want Dramamine.   #56   Apr 16, '17, 9:04 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by victrolatim One thing I wish PBS would do is make available more of its archive of programming. Perhaps this is a way for them to offset the government subsidy. Create a "PBS Archive" and have a viable subscription cost. I am a documentary junkie and although PBS does have a lot available on it's app and website, after a period of time some shows disappear into oblivion unless someone has uploaded a version on Youtube. As for the opera, I am an avid listener and PBS is probably the only higher quality option for visual performances, although I have to agree with some previous posters that some of these newer stage productions are downright strange. I recall a performance of Verdi's "Rigoletto" from the Royal Opera House Covent Garden years ago that had topless women running about the stage. The singing was above average though. Thankfully, the local radio affiliate was carrying the same broadcast so I shut off the TV and turned on the radio. The Met still broadcasts Saturday matinees on the radio though I have found the singing is hit or miss. I forget what performance I tuned into months back (Wagner, I think) where the one contralto had such a horrible wobbly vibrato that she made me want Dramamine. That could work, as long as the government doesn't try to run it as a business. Believe me, they just can't do it. So it would need to be an archive and not managed by 500 overpaid bureaucrats. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #57   Apr 17, '17, 1:28 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC The general government has sn obligation to protect the president. It does not have an enumerated power to pay for radio and tv networks. On the other hand, I too would like to see a balanced budget. Maybe in year two? If you want a balance budget, we are going to need steep cuts to programs like Medicare. That is not part of the enumerated powers of the federal government either. Anyone who talks a balanced budget without bringing up either defense, entitlements or higher taxes is not really serious.   #58   Apr 17, '17, 4:46 am randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC The general government has sn obligation to protect the president. It does not have an enumerated power to pay for radio and tv networks. On the other hand, I too would like to see a balanced budget. Maybe in year two? It would be easier for the federal government to protect the president (and the still-MIA First Lady) if they would BOTH stay in the White House, no? I just think it's odd they're trying to balance a budget when Trump seems to find the (taxpayer) money to fly to Mar-a-Lago virtually every week. So, no, the supposed necessity of cutting funds to CPB and PBS rings a little hollow for me.   #59   Apr 17, '17, 4:51 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser It would be easier for the federal government to protect the president (and the still-MIA First Lady) if they would BOTH stay in the White House, no? I just think it's odd they're trying to balance a budget when Trump seems to find the (taxpayer) money to fly to Mar-a-Lago virtually every week. So, no, the supposed necessity of cutting funds to CPB and PBS rings a little hollow for me. It is amusing how, when a Democrat is in the WH, Republicans complain about travel, and when a Republican is in the WH, Democrats complain about travel. As for the First Lady, it is really none of our business where she chooses to raise her child. As for the funding of the CPB and PBS, there is no enumerated power for government to be involved in media, and there certainly is no need for it today.   #60   Apr 17, '17, 4:52 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 If you want a balance budget, we are going to need steep cuts to programs like Medicare. That is not part of the enumerated powers of the federal government either. Anyone who talks a balanced budget without bringing up either defense, entitlements or higher taxes is not really serious. Correct   Apr 17, '17, 7:03 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser It would be easier for the federal government to protect the president (and the still-MIA First Lady) if they would BOTH stay in the White House, no? I just think it's odd they're trying to balance a budget when Trump seems to find the (taxpayer) money to fly to Mar-a-Lago virtually every week. So, no, the supposed necessity of cutting funds to CPB and PBS rings a little hollow for me. Maybe he thinks there are fewer listening devices on the Mar a Lago golf course than there are in the walls and furniture of the White House?   #62   Apr 17, '17, 7:19 am PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo If this is becoming a larger debate about the spending deficit in general, we have two issues. Democrats are generally looking to maintain or expand social services, sometimes through tax increases. Republicans generally try to reduce taxation, however they know quite well that reducing social services such as Medicare, Medicaid, Disability, and Social Security are a third rail for them. Rarely do they put forward a plan to reduce military spending. The skinny budget put forward by the White House does nothing to reduce the public debt; it just cuts fairly inconsequential budget items such as PBS and Amtrak to claim to the base that they are cleaning up Washington spending. Look, I'd like nothing more than to pay less taxes, but to claim tax cuts trickle down to the worker is a bit of BS. Sure, it may help some job creation; but employers also act in their own interest. It's about the bottom line. The less expenses (people) they need to make their operation run, the better profit they make. In other word they are not going to share the benefits of tax breaks out of love in their hearts. You can't maintain our current spending through massive tax cuts while not reducing spending. If cutting taxes is your driver for growth, at some point or federal debt service will crush any attempt to do so. The service is already over 20%....we are just kicking the can down the road. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.   #63   Apr 17, '17, 7:41 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by PJH_74 If this is becoming a larger debate about the spending deficit in general, we have two issues. Democrats are generally looking to maintain or expand social services, sometimes through tax increases. Republicans generally try to reduce taxation, however they know quite well that reducing social services such as Medicare, Medicaid, Disability, and Social Security are a third rail for them. Rarely do they put forward a plan to reduce military spending. The skinny budget put forward by the White House does nothing to reduce the public debt; it just cuts fairly inconsequential budget items such as PBS and Amtrak to claim to the base that they are cleaning up Washington spending. Look, I'd like nothing more than to pay less taxes, but to claim tax cuts trickle down to the worker is a bit of BS. Sure, it may help some job creation; but employers also act in their own interest. It's about the bottom line. The less expenses (people) they need to make their operation run, the better profit they make. In other word they are not going to share the benefits of tax breaks out of love in their hearts. You can't maintain our current spending through massive tax cuts while not reducing spending. If cutting taxes is your driver for growth, at some point or federal debt service will crush any attempt to do so. The service is already over 20%....we are just kicking the can down the road. After the last eight years, I think we already know what cutting defense does. I agree entitlements have to be cut, but I do not see any appetite for it. An additional problem with those is that most entitlements are either not means tested at all (SS, Medicare) or are only vaguely so (Obamacare). So there are people at the public trough whose presence there is in no way justified under anybody's theory. So things like Amtrak and PBS and slowing increases are the only things available. Problem is, the entitlements have built-in increases.   #64   Apr 17, '17, 8:00 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 If you want a balance budget, we are going to need steep cuts to programs like Medicare. That is not part of the enumerated powers of the federal government either. Anyone who talks a balanced budget without bringing up either defense, entitlements or higher taxes is not really serious. Medicare taxes are already paid separately from the general budget. You can not tell the elderly they must pay more when they have nothing left to pay for their healthcare, after they had paid taxes into SS and Medicare all of their lives. Meanwhile Congress and the President increased the defense budget by $54 billion and aid to Israel at $4 billion. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #65   Apr 17, '17, 8:59 am Michael68 Banned   Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by NickyMaz PBS didn't make any of those shows! They were made by BBC and ITV in the UK and PBS bought the rights to present them in the US, but any other channel could have done the same thing. Conversely, the 'internet' does make quality programming, Hulu and Netflix make tons of great shows and even feature-length movies. Isn't Hulu making original stuff now? So much for the argument that the internet doesn't make anything.   #66   Apr 17, '17, 10:29 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS Medicare taxes are already paid separately from the general budget. You can not tell the elderly they must pay more when they have nothing left to pay for their healthcare, after they had paid taxes into SS and Medicare all of their lives. Meanwhile Congress and the President increased the defense budget by $54 billion and aid to Israel at $4 billion. Jim The separate medicare tax only covers part A. The subsidy for part B comes from general tax revenues. The subsidies for part B alone are in the neighborhood of $200 billion per year. So it is something that must be addressed if we are serious about cutting spending.   #67   Apr 17, '17, 10:36 am Michael68 Banned   Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Maybe he thinks there are fewer listening devices on the Mar a Lago golf course than there are in the walls and furniture of the White House? Excellent point!   #68   Apr 17, '17, 11:25 am JanetF Regular Member   Join Date: October 22, 2008 Posts: 768 Religion: Roman catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS Personally, I prefer to watch them on my 32 inch tv with surround sound over my laptop computer. Jim And you can using Netflix and/or Amazon Prime __________________ Janet The Church is not out of step with society; society is out of step with the Church. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is not the Church who needs to change her thinking; it is society that needs to CORRECT its thinking.   #69   Apr 17, '17, 11:36 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JanetF And you can using Netflix and/or Amazon Prime Sure, on my TV as Comcast now has an app for Netflix Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #70   Apr 17, '17, 12:23 pm PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner After the last eight years, I think we already know what cutting defense does. I agree entitlements have to be cut, but I do not see any appetite for it. An additional problem with those is that most entitlements are either not means tested at all (SS, Medicare) or are only vaguely so (Obamacare). So there are people at the public trough whose presence there is in no way justified under anybody's theory. So things like Amtrak and PBS and slowing increases are the only things available. Problem is, the entitlements have built-in increases. The thing is the 54 Billion they want to remove is just being dumped into the military. That kind of money can provide a much need bump to things like maintaining infrastructure. For a candidate that ran on not wanting to get in more foreign wars and building other people's infrastructure, the priorities were interesting. We have 3 basic solutions cut military spending drastically, cut social programs drastically, or make a fairly large tax increase; probably a mix of all. The thing is no one party wants to be "guilty" of this reality. It won't be fixed until the American people stop living in the all you want la la land...and it only gets worse the more we deny it. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.   #71   Apr 17, '17, 1:33 pm Theo520 Regular Member   Join Date: August 8, 2014 Posts: 5,623 Religion: Christian Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Cutting PBS funding will have zero impact on Sesame Street. Big Bird and Elmo are huge profit makers, they aren't owned by PBS. __________________ FACTS MATTER!   #72   Apr 17, '17, 3:19 pm Holly3278 Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: April 21, 2005 Posts: 21,702 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Some of the programs on PBS are biased but I do think that they should not completely eliminate funding for it. Perhaps they could simply reduce the funding but not eliminate it.   #73   Apr 17, '17, 3:52 pm ucfengr Regular Member   Join Date: July 25, 2014 Posts: 4,154 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Holly3278 Some of the programs on PBS are biased but I do think that they should not completely eliminate funding for it. Perhaps they could simply reduce the funding but not eliminate it. When most markets had 3 or 4 channels, the argument for a PBS made a lot more sense, but with cable, satellite, and streaming delivering a hundred or more channels, it doesn't. There's plenty of places to get your snooty, British TV with out taxpayers needing to subsidize it.   #74   Apr 17, '17, 5:15 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Instead of eliminating PBS, I would reform the PBS channels and get rid of the politically Liberal biased news and talk show programs: "PBS Newshour," "Tavis Smiley," "Bonnie Erbe," "Frontline," and anything else dealing with political issues. Keep the children's programming, the nature and science programs like NOVA, the arts programming like "Great Performances" and "Live From Lincoln Center", and the history documentaries subtracting any strong political propaganda or political messaging or political axe to grind within them and adding diversity of historical expert opinions. Also, make the history programs more inclusive of historical subjects and persons covered instead of the usual pantheon of Liberal heroes and heroines. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #75   Apr 17, '17, 5:30 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer Instead of eliminating PBS, I would reform the PBS channels and get rid of the politically Liberal biased news and talk show programs: "PBS Newshour," "Tavis Smiley," "Bonnie Erbe," "Frontline," and anything else dealing with political issues. Keep the children's programming, the nature and science programs like NOVA, the arts programming like "Great Performances" and "Live From Lincoln Center", and the history documentaries subtracting any strong political propaganda or political messaging or political axe to grind within them and adding diversity of historical expert opinions. Also, make the history programs more inclusive of historical subjects and persons covered instead of the usual pantheon of Liberal heroes and heroines. Good compromise: I'll go along with that, not that I have much or any influence on programming. Who would want to give up the historical documentaries, the Great Performances or American Masters series, Live from Lincoln Center, the nature shows, or NOVA? Not me! Frontline sometimes has very interesting programs too, no matter what the political perspective may be. I generally take the politics with a grain of salt anyhow, but more diversity of political thought would definitely not hurt.      Apr 17, '17, 5:35 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer Instead of eliminating PBS, I would reform the PBS channels and get rid of the politically Liberal biased news and talk show programs: "PBS Newshour," "Tavis Smiley," "Bonnie Erbe," "Frontline," and anything else dealing with political issues. Keep the children's programming, the nature and science programs like NOVA, the arts programming like "Great Performances" and "Live From Lincoln Center", and the history documentaries subtracting any strong political propaganda or political messaging or political axe to grind within them and adding diversity of historical expert opinions. Also, make the history programs more inclusive of historical subjects and persons covered instead of the usual pantheon of Liberal heroes and heroines. So censor anything you don't agree with ? Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #77   Apr 17, '17, 5:41 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Good compromise: I'll go along with that, not that I have much or any influence on programming. Who would want to give up the historical documentaries, the Great Performances or American Masters series, Live from Lincoln Center, the nature shows, or NOVA? Not me! Frontline sometimes has very interesting programs too, no matter what the political perspective may be. I generally take the politics with a grain of salt anyhow, but more diversity of political thought would definitely not hurt. Years ago, there were actually programs like those on commercial TV, and not a few of them. I'm not sure why commercial TV turned into the awful drivel it is today. Have we really reached a point at which there is so little audience for such programs that nobody but the government will pay for it? If so, then one has to wonder whether the occasional entertainment of a handful of people is all that much a proper charge on the public purse.   #78   Apr 17, '17, 5:56 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Years ago, there were actually programs like those on commercial TV, and not a few of them. I'm not sure why commercial TV turned into the awful drivel it is today. Have we really reached a point at which there is so little audience for such programs that nobody but the government will pay for it? If so, then one has to wonder whether the occasional entertainment of a handful of people is all that much a proper charge on the public purse. I think audiences eventually become conditioned to what is presented to them by the media, especially younger audiences who have no point of comparison to the "good ole days." Yes, in the early years of television, there were actually plenty of shows of high quality, particularly live theatrical performances and music programs, even some of the comedy series and political shows. That day is long gone, and we are continuing to go ever more downhill. The same is true of politics, I believe, and...most everything else in our "culture." Why not keep the little quality programming that we have alive: maybe, just maybe some of it will rub off on the younger generation and inspire them to loftier heights.   #79   Apr 17, '17, 6:08 pm SyroMalankara Regular Member   Join Date: July 19, 2004 Posts: 5,095 Religion: Syro-Malankara Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo My local PBS picked up Fr., now Bishop Robert Barron's CATHOLICISM series   #80   Apr 17, '17, 6:15 pm commenter Regular Member   Join Date: April 21, 2011 Posts: 3,588 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Many PBS viewers do donate money, either to PBS or to local stations. That is fine. I donate money to EWTN. I don't ask my non Catholic neighbors to support EWTN, even though that network includes much information, Art, and Music that is part of the common cultural heritage of Western civilization. Many of the programs on EWTN are co funded by specific ideological foundations: essentially that means the program would not have happened in the first place without the co funding. That means a Left foundation is getting a dollar's worth of programming using only 50 cents of their own money. Tax exempt foundations tied to extremely wealthy families are not allowed to do explicit political campaigning, but can indirectly spotlight certain issues, and not others, using my tax money. End that. __________________ ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, NY Times: They do not speak for me.   #81   Apr 17, '17, 7:33 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by SyroMalankara My local PBS picked up Fr., now Bishop Robert Barron's CATHOLICISM series Father Barron and the "Catholicism" production company and donors to the production company paid the PBS stations for the broadcast time. In other words, "Catholicism" was not a PBS produced program but it aired on some PBS stations; "Catholicism" received no financial support from PBS for its production and it was not funded by Viewers Like You. EWTN showed the entire "Catholicism" series; my local PBS station showed about half of the entire series but not the rest of the programs. That said, I am glad PBS was open to and agreed to broadcast some of the "Catholicism" series despite the complaints PBS received from some viewers. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #82   Apr 17, '17, 7:53 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS So censor anything you don't agree with ? Jim Well, in my opinion, you can't say PBS is fair with regard to political issues, social issues, or political talk shows. The only Conservative Commentator shown on PBS is Mr. David Brooks and he is, in my opinion, a Moderate Republican (i.e., Conservative on financial issues, Liberal on social issues) and he's only on once a week for about 8-10 minutes with a Liberal Commentator on Fridays during the PBS Newshour. I don't know if PBS still has the "McLaughlin Group" since the host died but that program was more entertainment with all the various talking heads shouting at each other than a serious rational political issues discussion program. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #83   Apr 17, '17, 7:56 pm victrolatim Junior Member   Join Date: May 18, 2015 Posts: 437 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo PBS is my go to for documentaries. History Channel and Discovery have (at least from what I see) little documentary programming any more. I'm tired of marathoning shows like "Pawn Stars" and "Deadliest Catch" I actually would like to see informative programming come back.   #84   Apr 18, '17, 4:57 am randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo PBS is also the home of "Austin City Limits," one of the best music television shows bar none (now that MTV and VH1, as of last year, really don't show music anymore). You can't find a show like ACL on cable. You just can't. For those of us who don't live in a town with decent college/non-commercial radio station, Austin City Limits fills the gap quite nicely. As for opera, for those aren't aware of this - the AMC movie theater chain has for quite some time now simulcast operas from around the world in their theaters. And, whenever I have been at a movie and see it there, the theater showing the opera is just as full as the theater showing the movies. So, obviously, there's really no question that opera already *is* mainstream.   #85   Apr 18, '17, 5:18 am ucfengr Regular Member   Join Date: July 25, 2014 Posts: 4,154 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser PBS is also the home of "Austin City Limits," one of the best music television shows bar none (now that MTV and VH1, as of last year, really don't show music anymore). You can't find a show like ACL on cable. You just can't. For those of us who don't live in a town with decent college/non-commercial radio station, Austin City Limits fills the gap quite nicely. As for opera, for those aren't aware of this - the AMC movie theater chain has for quite some time now simulcast operas from around the world in their theaters. And, whenever I have been at a movie and see it there, the theater showing the opera is just as full as the theater showing the movies. So, obviously, there's really no question that opera already *is* mainstream. I like Austin City Limits, but let's be honest, the audience is mostly college educated, upper middle class white people. They are more than capable of funding their own show without relying on forced contributions from taxpayers.   #86   Apr 18, '17, 5:38 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer Well, in my opinion, you can't say PBS is fair with regard to political issues, social issues, or political talk shows. The only Conservative Commentator shown on PBS is Mr. David Brooks and he is, in my opinion, a Moderate Republican (i.e., Conservative on financial issues, Liberal on social issues) and he's only on once a week for about 8-10 minutes with a Liberal Commentator on Fridays during the PBS Newshour. I don't know if PBS still has the "McLaughlin Group" since the host died but that program was more entertainment with all the various talking heads shouting at each other than a serious rational political issues discussion program. I don't recall watching any political program on PBS. Not saying they don't exist, I just haven't watched them. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #87   Apr 18, '17, 5:58 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,736 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS I don't recall watching any political program on PBS. Not saying they don't exist, I just haven't watched them. Jim They call it "the news".   #88   Apr 18, '17, 11:16 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner They call it "the news". So you're saying the news on PBS is actually a political program ? Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #89   Apr 18, '17, 12:04 pm mary bobo Veteran Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10,620 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy I think audiences eventually become conditioned to what is presented to them by the media, especially younger audiences who have no point of comparison to the "good ole days." Yes, in the early years of television, there were actually plenty of shows of high quality, particularly live theatrical performances and music programs, even some of the comedy series and political shows. That day is long gone, and we are continuing to go ever more downhill. The same is true of politics, I believe, and...most everything else in our "culture." Why not keep the little quality programming that we have alive: maybe, just maybe some of it will rub off on the younger generation and inspire them to loftier heights. You're assuming that the younger generation watches PBS. __________________ Praying for all CAF intentions.   #90   Apr 18, '17, 1:22 pm randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by mary bobo You're assuming that the younger generation watches PBS. They do. "Sesame Street" just added an autistic character, and the aforementioned "Austin City Limits" is a huge draw for the CMJ & SXSW kids. Kids also like "Arthur." Apr 18, '17, 3:08 pm Theo520 Regular Member   Join Date: August 8, 2014 Posts: 5,624 Religion: Christian Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Holly3278 Some of the programs on PBS are biased but I do think that they should not completely eliminate funding for it. Perhaps they could simply reduce the funding but not eliminate it. I'd be all for funding NPR and PBS if they adhered to an updated version of the "Fairness Doctrine" which would mean they'd have to hire someone who wasn't a progressive liberal, and have programs that appealed to the non 'progressive' half of the country.. __________________ FACTS MATTER!   #92   Apr 18, '17, 4:06 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by mary bobo You're assuming that the younger generation watches PBS. Good point. No, I don't assume they do; in fact, I know by means of working with young people that most do not watch PBS or even much of the awful nonsense that airs elsewhere. Television itself as a means of entertainment and information is going the way of the newspaper, the typewriter, the CD and LP; it is fast becoming an anachronism. But maybe by chance, a particular show of better quality will be watched, reluctantly at first, together with other, adult family members, and this may light a fire in the mind of the viewer. Perhaps it is wishful thinking, but I believe it can happen.   #93   Apr 18, '17, 4:10 pm randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Theo520 I'd be all for funding NPR and PBS if they adhered to an updated version of the "Fairness Doctrine" which would mean they'd have to hire someone who wasn't a progressive liberal, and have programs that appealed to the non 'progressive' half of the country.. You do realize that PBS made Pat Buchanan a household name courtesy of "The McLaughlin Group," which was hosted by a conservative Catholic, right? And before McLaughlin, William F. Buckley (doesn't get any more "non-progressive" than that.) The Fairness Doctrine was repealed by Reagan's FCC at the advent of cable TV, pre-Internet, in his zeal to deregulate everything. Not sure invoking Fairness Doctrine necessarily bolster's an anti-PBS view.   #94   Apr 18, '17, 4:20 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser You do realize that PBS made Pat Buchanan a household name courtesy of "The McLaughlin Group," which was hosted by a conservative Catholic, right? And before McLaughlin, William F. Buckley (doesn't get any more "non-progressive" than that.) The Fairness Doctrine was repealed by Reagan's FCC at the advent of cable TV, pre-Internet, in his zeal to deregulate everything. Not sure invoking Fairness Doctrine necessarily bolster's an anti-PBS view. Darn, you had to bring up facts to confuse conservatives. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #95   Apr 19, '17, 5:27 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,533 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo To quote my late uncle Michael, 'Now you wouldn't want to be doing that class of a thing', especially not in a case where it might show where the constant liberal vs progressive mantra is merely another way to pigeonhole populations and views of the world.   #96   Apr 19, '17, 7:21 am ucfengr Regular Member   Join Date: July 25, 2014 Posts: 4,154 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser You do realize that PBS made Pat Buchanan a household name courtesy of "The McLaughlin Group," which was hosted by a conservative Catholic, right? And before McLaughlin, William F. Buckley (doesn't get any more "non-progressive" than that.) The Fairness Doctrine was repealed by Reagan's FCC at the advent of cable TV, pre-Internet, in his zeal to deregulate everything. Not sure invoking Fairness Doctrine necessarily bolster's an anti-PBS view. Pat Buchanan is unknown outside of that tiny subset of people known as "political nerds". He was never a household name, nor for that matter, was WFB whose magazine "National Review" could never boast much more than a 100,000 readers and was largely supported by donations.   #97   Apr 19, '17, 7:37 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by ucfengr Pat Buchanan is unknown outside of that tiny subset of people known as "political nerds". He was never a household name, nor for that matter, was WFB whose magazine "National Review" could never boast much more than a 100,000 readers and was largely supported by donations. Pat Buchanan ran for president and was on other talk shows besides The McLaughlin Group. He was also attacked for being antisemitic in his works on WWII. The attacks of course were baseless and he was correct in his work as historians agreed with him. He wasn't an unknown as you suggest here. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #98   Apr 19, '17, 8:00 am ucfengr Regular Member   Join Date: July 25, 2014 Posts: 4,154 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS Pat Buchanan ran for president and was on other talk shows besides The McLaughlin Group. He was also attacked for being antisemitic in his works on WWII. The attacks of course were baseless and he was correct in his work as historians agreed with him. He wasn't an unknown as you suggest here. Jim He certainly wasn't a "household name". And the shows he appeared on were shows that appealed to the same demographic as the McLaughlin Group, IOW, that small subset of people known as "political nerds". I very much doubt more than 5% of the public could identify him from a recent picture.   #99   Apr 19, '17, 8:39 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by ucfengr He certainly wasn't a "household name". And the shows he appeared on were shows that appealed to the same demographic as the McLaughlin Group, IOW, that small subset of people known as "political nerds". I very much doubt more than 5% of the public could identify him from a recent picture. I disagree. I think many people know who Pat Buchanan is. Perhaps not younger people who don't remember his run for president, but certainly middle age and older folks like myself Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #100   Apr 19, '17, 9:08 am randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS I disagree. I think many people know who Pat Buchanan is. Perhaps not younger people who don't remember his run for president, but certainly middle age and older folks like myself Jim Dana Carvey's SNL parody of "The McLaughlin Group" (from the era of staunch conservatives like Joe Piscopo, Dennis Miller, Adam Sandler and Victoria Jackson) featured Pat Buchanan quite prominently. Of COURSE he's a household name. I don't know anyone who hasn't heard of him, and they almost always mention SNL (not PBS.) Nobody gets parodied on SNL unless they're a well-known public figure. Pat Buchanan: definitely well-known.   #101   Apr 19, '17, 6:22 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by ucfengr He certainly wasn't a "household name". And the shows he appeared on were shows that appealed to the same demographic as the McLaughlin Group, IOW, that small subset of people known as "political nerds". I very much doubt more than 5% of the public could identify him from a recent picture. More than 5% of the American public cannot identify ANYONE from a (recent) picture unless they are a famous modern celebrity. That's because they don't watch PBS.   #102   Apr 19, '17, 9:55 pm jeannetherese Regular Member   Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 3,605 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS I disagree. I think many people know who Pat Buchanan is. Perhaps not younger people who don't remember his run for president, but certainly middle age and older folks like myself Jim He was on Crossfire on CNN. I remember his presidential bid as well. He combined conservatism and populism. Last edited by jeannetherese; Apr 19, '17 at 10:15 pm.   #103   Apr 20, '17, 5:00 am randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy More than 5% of the American public cannot identify ANYONE from a (recent) picture unless they are a famous modern celebrity. That's because they don't watch PBS. Charlie Rose is a perfect example of that. Nobody gets to be parodied on SNL unless they're "a famous modern celebrity" (including the very famous household name Pat Buchanan), whereas the guests on Charlie Rose are very much on par with the relatively obscure guests Jon Stewart had on "The Daily Show" (which was statistically proven not too long ago to have more educated viewers) -- of course, I don't understand how there's somehow a "liberal" bias to have interview subjects like Charlie Rose's recent guests a WSJ's Pentagon reporter, former CIA deputy director, and Reihan Salam, executive editor of National Review -- which is a CONSERVATIVE publication. And I'm supposed to applaud pulling the plug on that? Really?   #104   Apr 20, '17, 5:55 am mary bobo Veteran Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10,620 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy More than 5% of the American public cannot identify ANYONE from a (recent) picture unless they are a famous modern celebrity. That's because they don't watch PBS. I don't think they are watching any venues where they might see someone other than "celebrities". If they aren't on the plethora of programs like "Dancing with the Stars", they don't recognize them. __________________ Praying for all CAF intentions.   #105   Apr 20, '17, 5:57 am mary bobo Veteran Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10,620 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS I disagree. I think many people know who Pat Buchanan is. Perhaps not younger people who don't remember his run for president, but certainly middle age and older folks like myself Jim Shows how many "unseasoned" posters we have. __________________ Praying for all CAF intentions.  '   Apr 20, '17, 8:20 am St Pancake Regular Member   Join Date: March 3, 2015 Posts: 975 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo The inability of BOTH major parties to cut any appreciable spending continues. We ring up at least half a trillion new debt every year and there is no stomach to cure what is killing us.   #107   Apr 20, '17, 9:22 am randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Pancake The inability of BOTH major parties to cut any appreciable spending continues. We ring up at least half a trillion new debt every year and there is no stomach to cure what is killing us. Deficit, not debt. But also debt.   #108   Apr 20, '17, 8:56 pm Rhubarb Regular Member   Join Date: December 21, 2004 Posts: 1,821 Religion: Agnostic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by randomuser I'm ok with Trump cutting PBS as long as he stops gouging taxpayers for his weekly golfing trips to Mar-a-Lago (a demonstrable strain on both national security and taxpayers' pocketbooks.) It seems odd that he always has the money for golfing when he's already on track to out-deficit spend Reagan. He's sitting on a PR goldmine too. He could have Spicey go out and say how Trump and Co is going to knock off the millions-of-dollars trips every weekend. And that money will be re-directed to PBS or other cut programs. Then he looks good. He's genuinely doing good. And we on the left would look like sourpusses for complaining about it, cos he's giving something up personally.   #109   Apr 20, '17, 10:45 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Pancake The inability of BOTH major parties to cut any appreciable spending continues. We ring up at least half a trillion new debt every year and there is no stomach to cure what is killing us. That's because most of the American electorate is selfish and obtuse. In that regard, I feel sorry for the GOP. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #110   Apr 20, '17, 10:46 pm SuperLuigi Forum Elder   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 21,626 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Pancake The inability of BOTH major parties to cut any appreciable spending continues. We ring up at least half a trillion new debt every year and there is no stomach to cure what is killing us. That's because most of the American electorate is selfish and obtuse and in blue districts not enough people work hard. __________________ "The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin "Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical "...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A   #111   Apr 21, '17, 12:10 am abucs Regular Member   Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 3,184 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo I hear Big Bird is out and Pepe is in.   #112   Apr 21, '17, 1:46 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by SuperLuigi That's because most of the American electorate is selfish and obtuse. In that regard, I feel sorry for the GOP. The GOP is just as selfish and obtuse as the democrats. They brought their misery upon themselves.   #113   Apr 21, '17, 1:52 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by SuperLuigi That's because most of the American electorate is selfish and obtuse and in blue districts not enough people work hard. Actually, the red states tend to get more in government spending than they pay in taxes. A lot of this spending is welfare programs such as Medicare and social security who mostly go to people who are too lazy to work.   #114   Apr 21, '17, 6:15 am meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Actually, the red states tend to get more in government spending than they pay in taxes. A lot of this spending is welfare programs such as Medicare and social security who mostly go to people who are too lazy to work. Whether in red states or blue states, I think Medicare and Social Security "mostly go to people" who have worked their whole lives and, in the case of SS, have decided to retire because they are now older and want to relax and enjoy the remainder of their lives a little more or because they are not so healthy now and need to take better care of themselves or family members. What is so wrong with that? Does everyone have to work until they die as in the old days?   #115   Apr 21, '17, 6:28 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Whether in red states or blue states, I think Medicare and Social Security "mostly go to people" who have worked their whole lives and, in the case of SS, have decided to retire because they are now older and want to relax and enjoy the remainder of their lives a little more or because they are not so healthy now and need to take better care of themselves or family members. What is so wrong with that? Does everyone have to work until they die as in the old days? They retire and expect, with good reason, to get their money back, the money that was confiscated from them with a government pledge they will get it back.   #116   Apr 21, '17, 6:54 am randomuser Regular Member   Join Date: August 27, 2013 Posts: 2,204 Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Rhubarb He's sitting on a PR goldmine too. He could have Spicey go out and say how Trump and Co is going to knock off the millions-of-dollars trips every weekend. And that money will be re-directed to PBS or other cut programs. Then he looks good. He's genuinely doing good. And we on the left would look like sourpusses for complaining about it, cos he's giving something up personally. Yes, but he shows no intention whatsoever of EVER cutting Mar-a-Lago from all the wasteful spending.   #117   Apr 21, '17, 7:06 am Jeanne S Veteran Member   Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 10,856 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Whether in red states or blue states, I think Medicare and Social Security "mostly go to people" who have worked their whole lives and, in the case of SS, have decided to retire because they are now older and want to relax and enjoy the remainder of their lives a little more or because they are not so healthy now and need to take better care of themselves or family members. What is so wrong with that? Does everyone have to work until they die as in the old days? Absolutely agree   #118   Apr 21, '17, 8:27 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC They retire and expect, with good reason, to get their money back, the money that was confiscated from them with a government pledge they will get it back. So that makes it appropriate to confiscate the money from somebody else? Two wrongs don't make a right.   #119   Apr 21, '17, 9:54 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Whether in red states or blue states, I think Medicare and Social Security "mostly go to people" who have worked their whole lives and, in the case of SS, have decided to retire because they are now older and want to relax and enjoy the remainder of their lives a little more or because they are not so healthy now and need to take better care of themselves or family members. What is so wrong with that? Does everyone have to work until they die as in the old days? The big problem with that is that Social Security and Medicare are bankrupting our country. When Social Security was implemented, about half the people born at that time were not expected to live to collect it. Now, we live longer but we have not adjusted the age to collect SS and Medicare. There are those who are able to work, but would prefer not to. There are those who have the means to pay for their healthcare, but working people are forced to sacrifice to subsidize their healthcare. That is a recipe for disaster.   #120   Apr 21, '17, 10:52 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 So that makes it appropriate to confiscate the money from somebody else? Two wrongs don't make a right. True. So we need to confiscate the wealth of every federal official who was complicit in the immoral spending of the trust fund over the last fifty years. Then, the government should be required to sell land and assets to make up the difference. That work?   Apr 21, '17, 10:58 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The big problem with that is that Social Security and Medicare are bankrupting our country. When Social Security was implemented, about half the people born at that time were not expected to live to collect it. Now, we live longer but we have not adjusted the age to collect SS and Medicare. There are those who are able to work, but would prefer not to. There are those who have the means to pay for their healthcare, but working people are forced to sacrifice to subsidize their healthcare. That is a recipe for disaster. Of course it is. The demographics have also changed. But the biggest issue is still that SS "contributions " were stolen in order to pay for other federal social programs starting in 1967. The Democrats started this theft and misuse of the SS trust fund, but Republicans have been complicit.   #122   Apr 21, '17, 12:36 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC True. So we need to confiscate the wealth of every federal official who was complicit in the immoral spending of the trust fund over the last fifty years. Then, the government should be required to sell land and assets to make up the difference. That work? Nobody has a moral entitlement to welfare and nobody can dispute that Social Security and Medicare are welfare programs.   #123   Apr 21, '17, 1:37 pm DarkNight Junior Member   Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 280 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 nobody can dispute that Social Security and Medicare are welfare programs. Social insurance - Difference from welfare Quote: With social insurance, the beneficiary's contributions to the program are taken into account. A welfare program pays recipients based on need, not contributions. In the US, Medicare is social insurance, and Medicaid is welfare. Social Security is *Not* Welfare Concepts matter!   #124   Apr 21, '17, 1:42 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by DarkNight Social insurance - Difference from welfare Social Security is *Not* Welfare Concepts matter! Why Social Security is welfare http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030602926.html   #125   Apr 21, '17, 2:34 pm DarkNight Junior Member   Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 280 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Why Social Security is welfare http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030602926.html Quote: Robert Samuelson (author of the Washington Post article) is making the same wrong argument about Social Security being welfare that he's been making for years: Social Security is *Not* Welfare   #126   Apr 21, '17, 3:00 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Why Social Security is welfare http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030602926.html Social Security is not welfare. Beneficiaries paid into it for all of their working lives and will not collect back what they paid in. I know you hate Social Security and it comes across as a little insulting to us seniors, when say it's welfare. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #127   Apr 21, '17, 3:12 pm po18guy Forum Elder   Join Date: April 18, 2007 Posts: 26,644 Religion: Catholic What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Liberals are 100% free to send lots of money to keep PBS afloat! Oh, but it is so much easier to make others pay for it, huh? Couldn't PBS money go to feed the poor? The children? Single moms? Global warming research? Riddle me this, Batman: why should those who oppose the consistently leftist PBS propaganda be forced to pay for it? That violation of moderate and conservative consciences a matter of social justice. __________________ I say what I have to say and move on. If you have a question, kindly send a private message. 3X cancer survivor: 1) Peripheral T-Cell Lymphoma Not Otherwise Specified, 2) Angioimmunoblastic T-Cell Lymphoma, and 3) Myelodysplastic Syndrome. How? Eucharist, Anointing, Prayer. Moderator www.cancerforums.net   #128   Apr 21, '17, 3:20 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by po18guy Liberals are 100% free to send lots of money to keep PBS afloat! Oh, but it is so much easier to make others pay for it, huh? Couldn't PBS money go to feed the poor? The children? Single moms? Global warming research? Riddle me this, Batman: why should those who oppose the consistently leftist PBS propaganda be forced to pay for it? That violation of moderate and conservative consciences a matter of social justice. However, so many of the PBS programs are NOT "leftist propaganda" and don't involve politics at all. They involve the performing arts, history, science, religion, wildlife, children's educational shows. These are programs that benefit everyone, their mind and their spirit. After all, man does not live by bread alone.   #129   Apr 21, '17, 3:56 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS Social Security is not welfare. Beneficiaries paid into it for all of their working lives and will not collect back what they paid in. I know you hate Social Security and it comes across as a little insulting to us seniors, when say it's welfare. Jim Your claiming it is not welfare does not determine whether or not it is welfare. Welfare programs take from those who work and give to those who won't work. Also, the benefits received are not related to what people pay in. Many people have received much more in social security payments than they paid in. Some will get less than they paid in. It also has affected work effort, after all, why work when you can collect the dole. http://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/a...urity-welfare/   #130   Apr 22, '17, 4:36 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Your claiming it is not welfare does not determine whether or not it is welfare. Welfare programs take from those who work and give to those who won't work. Also, the benefits received are not related to what people pay in. Many people have received much more in social security payments than they paid in. Some will get less than they paid in. It also has affected work effort, after all, why work when you can collect the dole. http://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/a...urity-welfare/ Your claim that it is welfare doesn't make it so. It is not means tested, unlike welfare. Benefits are directly related to one paying into the system. It is clearly poorly designed, unconstitutional, corrupted by politicians who have stolen the contributions for political purposes. But it is not welfare.   #131   Apr 22, '17, 5:03 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Your claim that it is welfare doesn't make it so. It is not means tested, unlike welfare. Benefits are directly related to one paying into the system. It is clearly poorly designed, unconstitutional, corrupted by politicians who have stolen the contributions for political purposes. But it is not welfare. Your claim that it is not welfare does not make it so. Benefits are not directly related to what people pay into the system. Some people pay nothing into the system and get huge benefits. Others pay thousands into the system and get nothing. It is a massive government redistribution system which takes from those who work and gives to those who won't work.   #132   Apr 22, '17, 5:43 am Wesrock Regular Member   Join Date: July 29, 2015 Posts: 3,647 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo I really don't care if SS is or is not welfare. It's a wonderful program, as are many welfare programs. __________________ As for me, to be near God is my good, to make the Lord God my refuge. (Ps 73:28)   #133   Apr 22, '17, 5:48 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Wesrock I really don't care if SS is or is not welfare. It's a wonderful program, as are many welfare programs. People tend to like government programs where other people are required to sacrifice for them. The problem is, social security and medicare are bankrupting our country and neither republicans nor democrats care enough about future generations to do anything about it.   #134   Apr 22, '17, 6:54 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Your claim that it is not welfare does not make it so. Benefits are not directly related to what people pay into the system. Some people pay nothing into the system and get huge benefits. Others pay thousands into the system and get nothing. As I said, it is a poorly designed system, corrupt and unconstitutional. It is inherently unfair for the reason you mentioned, but by that fact that people pay in return for a specific benefit means it is not welfare. Quote: It is a massive government redistribution system which takes from those who work and gives to those who won't work This is a complete mischaracterization. It has taken from those who work and, ostensibly, give it back when they stop working. In that way, it is precisely like a retirement fund, its myriad flaws notwithstanding.   #135   Apr 22, '17, 7:04 am dvdjs Senior Member   Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC As I said, it is ... unconstitutional. Hasn't the constitutionality been tested in the courts? Helvering v. Davis?     Apr 22, '17, 7:15 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC As I said, it is a poorly designed system, corrupt and unconstitutional. It is inherently unfair for the reason you mentioned, but by that fact that people pay in return for a specific benefit means it is not welfare. The problem is that the people do not pay for a specific benefit. They pay for whatever the government deems it ought to give them. For example, there are some who pay zero into the system and still get money out. There are those who pay thousands and get nothing. The benefits are solely at the whim of the government. The government can change those benefits at anytime without legal consequence. Quote: This is a complete mischaracterization. It has taken from those who work and, ostensibly, give it back when they stop working. In that way, it is precisely like a retirement fund, its myriad flaws notwithstanding. Actually, you are the one who is mischaracterizing things. Money is not taken and held to be given back. Money is taken one one group (workers) and given to another group (mostly those who are too lazy to work). So there is no money to give back, only money that can be confiscated from someone else. Like I have said before, two wrongs don't make a right.   #137   Apr 22, '17, 7:24 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 (mostly those who are too lazy to work). . What a judgmental statement. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #138   Apr 22, '17, 7:31 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The problem is that the people do not pay for a specific benefit. They pay for whatever the government deems it ought to give them. For example, there are some who pay zero into the system and still get money out. There are those who pay thousands and get nothing. The benefits are solely at the whim of the government. The government can change those benefits at anytime without legal consequence. Actually, you are the one who is mischaracterizing things. Money is not taken and held to be given back. Money is taken one one group (workers) and given to another group (mostly those who are too lazy to work). So there is no money to give back, only money that can be confiscated from someone else. Like I have said before, two wrongs don't make a right. In the first part, you are responding at the corruption of the system by politicians, not to the basic system itself. It n pays in contributions throughout one's working life and receive benefits in return at retirement. People on welfare have not paid in in exchange for benefits. In the second you are, again, responding to the corruption of politicians who have abused the trust fund. The money paid in was supposed to be used in a trust fund for the benefit of those who pay in. It is flawed, to be sure, but it is not a welfare program. If I have paid money in, with a promise of a return, it is not a wrong to expect that return.   #139   Apr 22, '17, 7:35 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS What a judgmental statement. Jim Not just judgemental, but inaccurate in the vast majority of cases.   #140   Apr 22, '17, 7:40 am DarkNight Junior Member   Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 280 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Your claiming it is not welfare does not determine whether or not it is welfare. Welfare programs take from those who work and give to those who won't work. Also, the benefits received are not related to what people pay in. Many people have received much more in social security payments than they paid in. Some will get less than they paid in. It also has affected work effort, after all, why work when you can collect the dole. http://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/a...urity-welfare/ You have your right to hold Libertarian viewpoints as does Laurence Vance (author of your quoted article) and the Future of Freedom Foundation (fff.org) which identifies itself as Libertarian. The problem with Mr Vance's arguments is that they are incomplete. Many people pay more in insurance than they receive from it (car, house, etc). Some receive more. Yet these insurances are not welfare. And if you consistently "collect the dole" you have not paid into Social Security and will not receive benefits based on your earnings. The Future of Freedom Foundation & Libertarianism have their own distinct views. But it does not help them when they misconstrue the facts.   #141   Apr 22, '17, 7:50 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Not just judgemental, but inaccurate in the vast majority of cases. Actually, it is very accurate in the vast majority of cases. In the 1880s, around 75% of men over 65 were in the labor force. Today it is around 17%, so at a time when we are much healthier and more able to work, we are much less likely to work. Now if someone wants to pay their own way, I have no problem with whether they choose to work or not work. But I have a problem with sacrificing for those who are able to work but are too lazy to work.   #142   Apr 22, '17, 8:03 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Actually, it is very accurate in the vast majority of cases. In the 1880s, around 75% of men over 65 were in the labor force. Today it is around 17%, so at a time when we are much healthier and more able to work, we are much less likely to work. Now if someone wants to pay their own way, I have no problem with whether they choose to work or not work. But I have a problem with sacrificing for those who are able to work but are too lazy to work. I think the accusation that those who have retired, as a blanket statement, is a matter of the eighth commandment. I'm not willing to make such a statement. It is a matter of fact that people over 66 can work, if they choose, while they receive the money owed them by SS. It is not a matter of either/or   #143   Apr 22, '17, 8:05 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC I think the accusation that those who have retired, as a blanket statement, is a matter of the eighth commandment. I'm not willing to make such a statement Personally, I have a problem with giving the dole to those who are able to work.   #144   Apr 22, '17, 8:10 am dvdjs Senior Member   Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Actually, it is very accurate in the vast majority of cases. In the 1880s, around 75% of men over 65 were in the labor force. Today it is around 17%, so at a time when we are much healthier and more able to work, we are much less likely to work. How does this prove that those not working are too lazy to work?   #145   Apr 22, '17, 8:11 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Personally, I have a problem with giving the dole to those who are able to work. Then don't. But claiming that someone over 65, who has paid contributions to SS 45 years or more is on the dole is flatly false.   #146   Apr 22, '17, 8:12 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs How does this prove that those not working are too lazy to work? Anyone who quits work to collect the dole is lazy in my opinion.   #147   Apr 22, '17, 8:12 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Then don't. But claiming that someone over 65, who has paid contributions to SS 45 years or more is on the dole is flatly false. Claiming that a pure welfare program is anything else, is flatly false.   #148   Apr 22, '17, 8:15 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs How does this prove that those not working are too lazy to work? I guess those who are retired but spend lots of time working charitably are lazy, too.   #149   Apr 22, '17, 8:16 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Claiming that a pure welfare program is anything else, is flatly false. Then I suggest you not do so   #150   Apr 22, '17, 8:17 am dvdjs Senior Member   Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 6,874 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Anyone who quits work to collect the dole is lazy in my opinion. Well that is a peculiar definition of lazy. But thanks for playing. Apr 22, '17, 8:18 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by dvdjs Hasn't the constitutionality been tested in the courts? Helvering v. Davis? Indeed. Progressive jurists have done much damage to the original intent of the constitution over the last century . Perhaps I should have said "extra-constitutional ".   #152   Apr 22, '17, 8:24 am meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Anyone who quits work to collect the dole is lazy in my opinion. Well, confession time. I have been working as a teacher in one form or another for about 45 years, ever since I graduated from college. For much of that time I have taught at the university, both full-time and part-time, but also at the secondary, middle, and elementary school levels. Now I am planning on retiring to spend more time with family and friends. Actually, only semi-retiring: I plan on keeping my part-time job at one university while I retire from my full-time job at another university. I am in reasonably good health but I feel I have worked enough for one lifetime and want to avoid diminishing returns since the college teaching profession is not at all what it used to be years ago. I will be collecting Social Security benefits, which, by the way, are not all that much to live on. I do not have much in savings or investments either, so my retirement means a tightening of the belt, especially living in New York. Based on the above, do you consider me a lazy person and do you think I should continue to work until I am no longer physically able to do so? Go ahead: I can take it.   #153   Apr 22, '17, 8:32 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC I guess those who are retired but spend lots of time working charitably are lazy, too. Actually, I said if people want to spend their own money, then it is their business whether or not they want to work in the labor market. The issue I raised, is that if someone wants to collect the dole, which is what social security is, then subsidiarity would require that people support themselves before lining up for the government handout. Social Security is a handout, because you have to legal right to social security. The government can end it anytime without legal consequence.   #154   Apr 22, '17, 8:34 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Then I suggest you not do so I never said Social Security was anything but a welfare program. I am glad you are finally seeing it as what it truly is.   #155   Apr 22, '17, 8:41 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Well, confession time. I have been working as a teacher in one form or another for about 45 years, ever since I graduated from college. For much of that time I have taught at the university, both full-time and part-time, but also at the secondary, middle, and elementary school levels. Now I am planning on retiring to spend more time with family and friends. Actually, only semi-retiring: I plan on keeping my part-time job at one university while I retire from my full-time job at another university. I am in reasonably good health but I feel I have worked enough for one lifetime and want to avoid diminishing returns since the college teaching profession is not at all what it used to be years ago. I will be collecting Social Security benefits, which, by the way, are not all that much to live on. I do not have much in savings or investments either, so my retirement means a tightening of the belt, especially living in New York. Based on the above, do you consider me a lazy person and do you think I should continue to work until I am no longer physically able to do so? Go ahead: I can take it. I don't blame anybody for taking advantage of the system as it is currently in place. Similarly, I don't blame the illegal aliens who sneak over the border. That does not mean, however, that the status quo in either case is desirable. Social Security and Medicare are hugely expensive programs and if we care about the welfare of our children, we need to give consideration to their welfare. Neither program is sustainable as they are currently implemented. That does mean that those who can work, should work. As an aside, I tend to admire professors who leave before they have passed their prime. I have worked with many professors who should have retired years ago, or maybe they did and never told anyone. That is not to say that some professors can be at the top of their game past 80, but in my experience, most can't.   #156   Apr 22, '17, 8:47 am utah rose Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,359 Religion: catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis First, the Feds supply only 14% of PBS and NPR funding, and second, Sesame Street has moved to HBO, and third, Sesame Street had a HUGE revenue from selling Muppets and it's brand for lunch boxes and the like. Originally, public broadcasting was set up because they were supposed to support the sort of programming that was not commercially viable. This is no longer the case. And they are extremely biased in their reporting; why should my taxes go to that? I agree. They aired a program featuring a doctor that performs late term abortions last year, and no rebuttal program. I don't want my taxes paying for that. Furthermore, many of the programs they air mow could be aired on other cable channels such as Discovery, Many of the British series can be found on Netflix also.   #157   Apr 22, '17, 8:49 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Many people believe that Social Security is an “earned right.” That is, they think that because they have paid Social Security taxes, they are entitled to receive Social Security benefits. The government encourages that belief by referring to Social Security taxes as “contributions,” as in the Federal Insurance Contribution Act. However, in the 1960 case of Fleming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that workers have no legally binding contractual rights to their Social Security benefits, and that those benefits can be cut or even eliminated at any time. https://www.cato.org/publications/co...ocial-security   #158   Apr 22, '17, 8:50 am meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 I don't blame anybody for taking advantage of the system as it is currently in place. Similarly, I don't blame the illegal aliens who sneak over the border. That does not mean, however, that the status quo in either case is desirable. Social Security and Medicare are hugely expensive programs and if we care about the welfare of our children, we need to give consideration to their welfare. Neither program is sustainable as they are currently implemented. That does mean that those who can work, should work. As an aside, I tend to admire professors who leave before they have passed their prime. I have worked with many professors who should have retired years ago, or maybe they did and never told anyone. That is not to say that some professors can be at the top of their game past 80, but in my experience, most can't. Thank you for your kindness. Insofar as teacher/professor retirement is concerned, I think a good rule of thumb is that when you can no longer differentiate the students from the young professors, it is time to consider retirement.   #159   Apr 22, '17, 9:02 am utah rose Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,359 Religion: catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Actually, I said if people want to spend their own money, then it is their business whether or not they want to work in the labor market. The issue I raised, is that if someone wants to collect the dole, which is what social security is, then subsidiarity would require that people support themselves before lining up for the government handout. Social Security is a handout, because you have to legal right to social security. The government can end it anytime without legal consequence. I worked for 30 years and part of my paycheck was for SS, mot my own but for my parents generation. Also, maybe you aren't aware but SS is taxed in most states. That said, most people aren't able to live on SS alone. They need a pension or 401K to supplement that. I am NOT on a dole. SS has problems and they could be fixed so that wealthy people aren't eligible for it and that the age should be higher. It is also an unfair system because even if both spouses worked, if one dies you can't collect SS benefits that they contributed. And, these problems could be corrected if Congress would be forced to go on SS instead of their cushy retirement benefits that we as taxpayers are forced to pay. Also, with today's economy, I'd like to remind you that many of us were forced to go on it earlier thanks to companies "surplusing laying off, centralizing, or being bought off by another company, as was my case or I'd still be working.   #160   Apr 22, '17, 9:24 am meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,657 Religion: Jewish Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by utah rose I worked for 30 years and part of my paycheck was for SS, mot my own but for my parents generation. Also, maybe you aren't aware but SS is taxed in most states. That said, most people aren't able to live on SS alone. They need a pension or 401K to supplement that. I am NOT on a dole. SS has problems and they could be fixed so that wealthy people aren't eligible for it and that the age should be higher. It is also an unfair system because even if both spouses worked, if one dies you can't collect SS benefits that they contributed. And, these problems could be corrected if Congress would be forced to go on SS instead of their cushy retirement benefits that we as taxpayers are forced to pay. Also, with today's economy, I'd like to remind you that many of us were forced to go on it earlier thanks to companies "surplusing laying off, centralizing, or being bought off by another company, as was my case or I'd still be working. All good points! Social Security is actually not as wonderful as some people may think, and Medicare, well, enough said. These programs are still better than nothing, of course, which is actually what we may end up with if Paul Ryan and his cohort in Congress have their way.   #161   Apr 22, '17, 10:19 am DarkNight Junior Member   Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 280 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 https://www.cato.org/publications/co...ocial-security Why do you keep pushing the Libertarian agenda? All of the articles you refer to are from Libertarian organizations and therefor have a Libertarian bias. You are not up-front about that important detail. Social Security is not equivalent to "the dole". I have worked over 40 years and I love what I do. Unfortunately companies are becoming "corporate" - no longer caring about the employees, I haven't had a raise in over 7 years, not even a cost of living increase. But my company expects me to work harder to get less as they get more. In talking with friends, this attitude is rampant among many industries. I would have gladly continued to work - I loved what I was doing and the people I worked with. But management has made me miserable, to the point of falling into deep depression and requiring medical help to climb out of it. My health continues to suffer. I can not get another job given my age. But you consider me lazy for not continuing to work for backstabbing employers. If that is what all Libertarians are about then I am glad to remain completely independent of any party line.   #162   Apr 22, '17, 10:40 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Actually, if you have grandparents or parents collecting social security retirement benefits, or disability, you're a beneficiary as well. For it they didn't have SS, they'd be forced to live with you or on the street. Your wife would probably be the one to have to stay home and care for them when they became disabled. Not every family lived like the Walton's where grandma and grandpa stayed in the house they inherited from their parents and the oldest son, his wife and children lived with them. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #163   Apr 22, '17, 11:33 am jtauke Regular Member   Join Date: January 2, 2015 Posts: 1,243 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Anyone who quits work to collect the dole is lazy in my opinion. Good lord, you must be fun at parties. Enjoy working yourself into the grave.   #164   Apr 22, '17, 11:50 am JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by jtauke Good lord, you must be fun at parties. Enjoy working yourself into the grave. This is because he has the illusion that he'll be in the same physical and mental shape at 65, as he is as 20 years of age. Young people often think their immortal. . Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #165   Apr 22, '17, 12:15 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 I never said Social Security was anything but a welfare program. I am glad you are finally seeing it as what it truly is. Then you continue to mis-characterize it      Apr 22, '17, 12:17 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by DarkNight Why do you keep pushing the Libertarian agenda? All of the articles you refer to are from Libertarian organizations and therefor have a Libertarian bias. You are not up-front about that important detail. Social Security is not equivalent to "the dole". I have worked over 40 years and I love what I do. Unfortunately companies are becoming "corporate" - no longer caring about the employees, I haven't had a raise in over 7 years, not even a cost of living increase. But my company expects me to work harder to get less as they get more. In talking with friends, this attitude is rampant among many industries. I would have gladly continued to work - I loved what I was doing and the people I worked with. But management has made me miserable, to the point of falling into deep depression and requiring medical help to climb out of it. My health continues to suffer. I can not get another job given my age. But you consider me lazy for not continuing to work for backstabbing employers. If that is what all Libertarians are about then I am glad to remain completely independent of any party line. His is not a true libertarian agenda. Libertarians believe that confiscation of property without proper return is a violation of rights.   #167   Apr 22, '17, 3:49 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC His is not a true libertarian agenda. Libertarians believe that confiscation of property without proper return is a violation of rights. You are saying that all libertarians believe that we are due a refund of all the taxes we have paid? Can you provide some proof of that claim?   #168   Apr 22, '17, 6:48 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS This is because he has the illusion that he'll be in the same physical and mental shape at 65, as he is as 20 years of age. Young people often think their immortal. . Jim When did I ever suggest such a thing? Also, what makes you think I am young? If I chose to, in a few years I could collect the dole myself.   #169   Apr 22, '17, 6:52 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by jtauke Good lord, you must be fun at parties. Enjoy working yourself into the grave. What would make you think I am going to work myself into the grave. Have you never heard of saving for retirement? It's a unique concept called personal responsibility that the defenders of the welfare state should try sometime. Forcing others to sacrifice for you is much easier than taking responsibility.   #170   Apr 22, '17, 8:32 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 You are saying that all libertarians believe that we are due a refund of all the taxes we have paid? Can you provide some proof of that claim? And there you are. It is not a tax. It is FICA: federal insurance CONTRIBUTION act   #171   Apr 23, '17, 12:16 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC And there you are. It is not a tax. It is FICA: federal insurance CONTRIBUTION act The Supreme Court has determined that it is a tax. Can you cite any court decisions claiming otherwise?   #172   Apr 23, '17, 3:26 am JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The Supreme Court has determined that it is a tax. Can you cite any court decisions claiming otherwise? The legislation intended it to be a contribution. Again, you keep responding to the flaws in the program, flaws I think you and I agree on. It should never have seen the light of day, but it is there, promised as a retirement supplement. You pay in, you receive a benefit at a certain age. That's the way it was set up. Calling it welfare and claiming those who now receive it as lazy does nothing to help you cause.   #173   Apr 23, '17, 5:46 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC The legislation intended it to be a contribution. Again, you keep responding to the flaws in the program, flaws I think you and I agree on. It should never have seen the light of day, but it is there, promised as a retirement supplement. You pay in, you receive a benefit at a certain age. That's the way it was set up. Calling it welfare and claiming those who now receive it as lazy does nothing to help you cause. I am really disappointed that you didn't do your homework on this one. If Congress intended it to be a contribution, then why did they call it a tax in the actual legislation? Below is from the Social Security Act of 1935. Quote: INCOME TAX ON EMPLOYEES SECTION 801. In addition to other taxes, there shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages (as defined in section 811) received by him after December 31, 1936, with respect to employment (as defined in section 811) after such date: (1) With respect to employment during the calendar years 1937, 1938, and 1939, the rate shall be 1 per centum. (2) With respect to employment during the calendar years 1940, 1941, and 1942, the rate shall 1 « per centum. (3) With respect to employment during the calendar years 1943, 1944, and 1945, the rate shall be 2 per centum. (4) With respect to employment during the calendar years 1946, 1947, and 1948, the rate shall be 2 « per centum. (5) With respect to employment after December 31, 1948, the rate shall be 3 per centum.   #174   Apr 23, '17, 6:41 am Michael68 Banned   Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Social Security is not an entitlement!   #175   Apr 23, '17, 6:59 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 Social Security is not an entitlement! I agree, it is a redistributive welfare program. Nobody has a property right to social security.   #176   Apr 23, '17, 7:03 am Michael68 Banned   Join Date: August 17, 2015 Posts: 5,225 Religion: Cradle Roman Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 I agree, it is a redistributive welfare program. Nobody has a property right to social security. I tend to agree because you can get disability from Social Security without having ever worked   #177   Apr 23, '17, 12:35 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 I agree, it is a redistributive welfare program. Nobody has a property right to social security. Only f I am redistributing my own money to myself   #178   Apr 23, '17, 12:36 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 I tend to agree because you can get disability from Social Security without having ever worked That I agree with.   #179   Apr 23, '17, 12:41 pm MaryT777 Forum Master   Join Date: November 23, 2012 Posts: 14,367 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by Michael68 I tend to agree because you can get disability from Social Security without having ever worked Do you have a link to that? I don't think that's correct.   #180   Apr 23, '17, 12:52 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Only f I am redistributing my own money to myself You will have to explain what you are talking about. Are you arguing that social security recipients get their own money back, no more no less? I take it you now concede that the social security payroll tax is indeed a tax, since that was the intent of the legislation.     Apr 23, '17, 2:05 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 You will have to explain what you are talking about. Are you arguing that social security recipients get their own money back, no more no less? I take it you now concede that the social security payroll tax is indeed a tax, since that was the intent of the legislation. Of course not. The intent was a contribution, a premium. I regularly get paperwork that states how much I have "invested", and my projected return if I collect at age 62, 66, or 68. Sadly, we don't usually get our money back, if one compares SS benefits to the return on investment if the owner of that money had been allowed the basic American freedom to invest it even in rather safe investments. http://www.heritage.org/social-secur...l-security-act Last edited by JonNC; Apr 23, '17 at 2:15 pm.   #182   Apr 23, '17, 2:30 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Of course not. The intent was a contribution, a premium. I regularly get paperwork that states how much I have "invested", and my projected return if I collect at age 62, 66, or 68. If the legislators intended it to be an annuity, why did the call the required contributions a tax? The law clearly calls it a tax, can you cite some evidence from the initial legislators that they really didn't intend what they called a tax to actually be a tax? Quote: Sadly, we don't usually get our money back, if one compares SS benefits to the return on investment if the owner of that money had been allowed the basic American freedom to invest it even in rather safe investments. http://www.heritage.org/social-secur...l-security-act Actually, it depends on a number of factors. Early recipients by and large did very well. However, as time goes on benefits will become less generous. And of course, it is not an annuity because the government can change benefits at any time, just as they can with food stamps or with TANF.   #183   Apr 23, '17, 3:29 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 If the legislators intended it to be an annuity, why did the call the required contributions a tax? The law clearly calls it a tax, can you cite some evidence from the initial legislators that they really didn't intend what they called a tax to actually be a tax? Actually, it depends on a number of factors. Early recipients by and large did very well. However, as time goes on benefits will become less generous. And of course, it is not an annuity because the government can change benefits at any time, just as they can with food stamps or with TANF. All good reasons to oppose forcing young people from participating without control over their own money. However, the idea that those who paid in are not entitled to their promised return is the logic of a progressive   #184   Apr 23, '17, 3:42 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC All good reasons to oppose forcing young people from participating without control over their own money. However, the idea that those who paid in are not entitled to their promised return is the logic of a progressive I have news for you. There were no promised returns. The courts have consistently ruled that social security is a welfare program and that the government can change or eliminate those benefits without legal consequence. Now, I will concede that many americans have not done their homework and think of Social Security as an annuity that is owed to them. Of course, their ignorance does not create a contract in which they are owed anything. On the other hand, I would rather be a progressive that gets rid of a trillion dollar program than a so called conservative who argues incessantly in favor of the welfare state.   #185   Apr 23, '17, 4:30 pm JonNC Forum Elder   Join Date: December 15, 2007 Posts: 23,007 Religion: Life-long Lutheran, now Anglican Province of America Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 I have news for you. There were no promised returns. The courts have consistently ruled that social security is a welfare program and that the government can change or eliminate those benefits without legal consequence. Now, I will concede that many americans have not done their homework and think of Social Security as an annuity that is owed to them. Of course, their ignorance does not create a contract in which they are owed anything. On the other hand, I would rather be a progressive that gets rid of a trillion dollar program than a so called conservative who argues incessantly in favor of the welfare state. Well, if one voted for Johnson and that leftist Weld, you did vote for progressives. OTOH, I'm all in favor of doing away with it for young people, just not stabbing folks in the back who paid the contributions in for 40 plus years or more   #186   Apr 23, '17, 5:20 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,583 Religion: Catholic Re: What’s at Stake for PBS Viewers? Budget Cuts Could Harm More Than Big Bird and Elmo Quote: Originally Posted by JonNC Well, if one voted for Johnson and that leftist Weld, you did vote for progressives. OTOH, I'm all in favor of doing away with it for young people, just not stabbing folks in the back who paid the contributions in for 40 plus years or more As I say to my students, their failure to do their homework does not create an emergency that requires me to do more work. It was well known decades ago that social security was a welfare scheme. Just because people were too foolish to do their homework does not obligate working people to sacrifice for them. What positions of Johnson were progressive?