Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood

View Poll Results: What method of governance should Puerto Rico pursue?
Statehood		16	42.11%
Independence		11	28.95%
Territory		11	28.95%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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#1   Jun 9, '17, 9:18 pm

Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)

Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Voters in Puerto Rico head to the polls Sunday to decide whether to back a bid to make the U.S. territory the 51st state, at a time when the island is gripped by an economic crisis that is creating stiff challenges for such a proposal. The nonbinding plebiscite in the island of 3.4 million people presents three options: statehood, independence or a continuation of its current status as a territory. Gov. Ricardo Rosselló, a member of the pro-statehood New Progressive Party, has made the push for statehood a centerpiece of his administration since assuming office in January. More: https://www.wsj.com/articles/puerto-...ood-1497026520 __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska

#2   Jun 9, '17, 10:13 pm

7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood I know the votes have been very close before. They are in a lot of debt. It will just add to our debt. Probably more votes for the democrats though. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139

#3   Jun 10, '17, 5:35 am

PJH_74 Regular Member   Join Date: August 13, 2012 Posts: 1,212 Religion: Somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Puerto Ricans are Americans, statehood just affirms what is the defacto. __________________ The eye of the God's needle does not require a narrow mind. Peace, Justice, Hope.

#4   Jun 10, '17, 6:34 am

Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood I'm with Independence. A part of me thinks the US can no longer function as a United country. Adding Puerto Rico to our disfuction doesn't seem to make sense. As far as remaining a colony, they bankrupted themselves so that's not working out for them. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska

#5   Jun 10, '17, 6:45 am

Crusaderbear Senior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: July 27, 2015 Posts: 13,861 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood I wish them well, whatever the decision! __________________ “Pray any way you like, so long as you do pray.” "May He be praised forever!"

#6   Jun 10, '17, 6:57 am

Mickey Finn Regular Member   Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 2,315 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows I know the votes have been very close before. They are in a lot of debt. It will just add to our debt. Probably more votes for the democrats though. So, that's one plus vote. Quote: Originally Posted by PJH_74 Puerto Ricans are Americans, statehood just affirms what is the defacto. I served with PR's in the ARMY and liked them alright. Never really saw one after that. But becoming a state is much more than what you say here. The debt they struggle under is a serious consideration. Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo I'm with Independence. A part of me thinks the US can no longer function as a United country. Adding Puerto Rico to our disfuction doesn't seem to make sense. As far as remaining a colony, they bankrupted themselves so that's not working out for them. How would independence work? Were they independent before and we simply took them over? No, they became our territory after the Spanish - American war. Before that they were a part of Spain. To simply cut them adrift is pretty much unthinkable. They are not separate from us and their welfare and debt are very much our responsibility. I'm okay with them remaining a territory. But statehood? I prefer round numbers and I hear the fishing there is not very good. Help with their debt might be what we should focus on. __________________ I'm no where near a Saint or a Pope. But I say you cannot love the poor with the same heart you love wealth, and material things.

#7   Jun 10, '17, 7:02 am

Wedge Antilles Regular Member   Join Date: January 31, 2017 Posts: 592 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Why would the rest of us want them as more than a territory? I like the symmetry of 50, don't need their debt, and we all get along well as it is. I can see their pros and cons, but what is the benefit to my state to add them?

#8   Jun 10, '17, 8:06 am

x1980x Junior Member   Join Date: January 18, 2010 Posts: 269 Religion: Mennonite

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Wedge Antilles Why would the rest of us want them as more than a territory? I like the symmetry of 50, don't need their debt, and we all get along well as it is. I can see their pros and cons, but what is the benefit to my state to add them? I don't see any particular benefit to any specific state, but it provides benefits to the nation. With Puerto Rico as a state, especially if it remains Spanish-speaking, the US would become an effectively bilingual nation alongside countries like Canada and Finland with the corresponding celebrations of diversity and the benefits of associating with more parts of the world. Puerto Rico has long been in sort of a weird, awkward position as a non-quite-accepted stepchild of America that no one wants to actually banish but that doesn't get a lot of respect at family reunions. Whatever the decision is, it needs to be made. The current political situation is, frankly, ridiculous.

#9   Jun 10, '17, 8:25 am

PaulfromIowa Senior Member   Join Date: September 7, 2012 Posts: 6,108 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Congress would have to approve statehood. If Puerto Rico is perceived as just looking for a financial bailout, Congress is unlikely to go along with that.

#10   Jun 10, '17, 9:37 am

GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,371 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood As our territory, doesn't their debt become our issue anyhow? If they are that far behind, independence would just add one more Third World country to a hemisphere already overburdened with them. Right now (having not been there), ISTM that they have the best of both worlds, being US citizens, yet having their own Olympic team and other ineternational recognitions. Still, being a state might attract the American investment that they need. Some investors might be put off by the prospect of a future independence vote. Statehood would remove that issue. ICXC NIKA

#11   Jun 10, '17, 9:46 am

Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood If they ever became a U.S. state, one of the most likely results would be two more Democratic party Senators in the U.S. Senate in perpetuity. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)

#12   Jun 10, '17, 9:56 am

pianistclare Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 12, 2013 Posts: 30,872 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood So what if they vote to become and State and the U.S. declines? Seems like putting the cart before the horse to me. But then, I know nothing of the topic. I had an aunt from Puerto Rico and still have cousins there. They never speak/spoke about it. __________________ Music is the only art of heaven on earth... and the only art of earth that we take to heaven.

#13   Jun 10, '17, 10:03 am

GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,371 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood We are already in decline. So? If we collapse, the South American chunk of the "Third World" would become a war zone within ten years if not less. ICXC NIKA

#14   Jun 10, '17, 10:18 am

Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood I wonder how the rest of the country felt about other territories becoming states back in the day. What was the benefit of adding Alaska as a state? What was the benefit of Minnesota? Or Washington? Or Arizona? Remember that US history your long-suffering high school teacher trying to teach you? Puerto Rico is just like other US territories, except that citizens there have never voted to become a US state, unlike the other 50 territories. My only real concern about have 51 states is it would totally ruin the song "Fifty Nifty United States" that I teach my students. Couldn't care less if they vote Republican or Democrat. As for their debt, we didn't force Arkansas or California out of the US when they were drowning in debt. And like it or not, Puerto Rico is currently a US territory and part of the US. __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!

#15   Jun 10, '17, 10:23 am

TK421 Regular Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: June 15, 2013 Posts: 5,356 Religion: Catholic

Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Flag manufacturers are going to love it. __________________ The ocean refuses no river from entering itself. The open heart refuses no part of Me.     Jun 10, '17, 10:26 am Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer If they ever became a U.S. state, one of the most likely results would be two more Democratic party Senators in the U.S. Senate in perpetuity. And that's a bad thing? Kinda like some southern and midwestern states having 2 Republicans. At least you spelled the name of the party right though! __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #17   Jun 10, '17, 10:29 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood In a mathematical journal some years back, possible designs for a 51 - point union were mooted, that would keep center symmetry and corner stars, etc. My guess is everybody would get used to 51 and then the USVI would vote in. ICXC NIKA   #18   Jun 10, '17, 10:48 am Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie In a mathematical journal some years back, possible designs for a 51 - point union were mooted, that would keep center symmetry and corner stars, etc. My guess is everybody would get used to 51 and then the USVI would vote in. ICXC NIKA That would totally mess up the "Fifty Nifty United States" song! AAAAACCCCKKK! __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #19   Jun 10, '17, 10:50 am TK421 Regular Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: June 15, 2013 Posts: 5,356 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Maybe we could reach a compromise. We keep the 50 stars but we add an image of Ricky Martin in the bottom right corner to represent Puerto Rico. __________________ The ocean refuses no river from entering itself. The open heart refuses no part of Me.   #20   Jun 10, '17, 10:51 am Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 Maybe we could reach a compromise. We keep the 50 stars but we add a picture of Ricky Martin in the bottom right corner to represent Puerto Rico. __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #21   Jun 10, '17, 11:28 am Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe And that's a bad thing? Kinda like some southern and midwestern states having 2 Republicans. At least you spelled the name of the party right though! It is bad, in my opinion, because the Democratic party does not officially recognize the unborn human being's fundamental right to life and supports “safe and legal abortion” as “core to women’s, men’s, and young people’s health and well-being” which is an intrinsically evil political policy. https://www.plannedparenthoodaction....-hint-terribly __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #22   Jun 10, '17, 12:02 pm JimR-OCDS Forum Elder   Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 16,604 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood They'll do as they have in the past, and vote to remain a territory. They don't want statehood and know they can't handle independence. So, they'll remain a territory and depend on the US to bail them out of debt. Jim __________________ "God can not be grasped except through love."   #23   Jun 10, '17, 12:05 pm Sarcelle Senior Member   Join Date: November 7, 2012 Posts: 7,509 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS They'll do as they have in the past, and vote to remain a territory. They don't want statehood and know they can't handle independence. So, they'll remain a territory and depend on the US to bail them out of debt. Jim Yes. The probability is high that the vote will be for the status quo.   #24   Jun 10, '17, 7:34 pm Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer It is bad, in my opinion, because the Democratic party does not officially recognize the unborn human being's fundamental right to life and supports “safe and legal abortion” as “core to women’s, men’s, and young people’s health and well-being” which is an intrinsically evil political policy. So if they vote for statehood, you would encourage Congress to reject their request? And what makes you think the entirety of Puerto Rico's population is pro-abortion? What about the people of Puerto Rico who are prolife? Should we disenfranchise the entire population, or only those who are pro-abortion? __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #25   Jun 11, '17, 9:40 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Yes, it's up to them. But if they become independent, they will join a long line of Third World nations waiting for a foreign handout. And US investment in the place would go poof. They are in our debit column to stay and I, for one would welcome them as a state. ICXC NIKA   #26   Jun 11, '17, 10:46 am Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle So if they vote for statehood, you would encourage Congress to reject their request? And what makes you think the entirety of Puerto Rico's population is pro-abortion? What about the people of Puerto Rico who are prolife? Should we disenfranchise the entire population, or only those who are pro-abortion? Quote: But the US Congress would have the final say, and few expect current US lawmakers to be very enthusiastic about eventual statehood for Puerto Rico. One big reason is that the Republican-controlled US Congress might be wary of a move that could erode their majority in both houses by allowing the Democratic-leaning Puerto Rican electorate to choose two new senators and several members of the House of Representatives. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40222376 So you thought I was off the political mark? __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #27   Jun 11, '17, 11:43 am ProVobis Forum Elder   Join Date: January 26, 2008 Posts: 43,251 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 Maybe we could reach a compromise. We keep the 50 stars but we add an image of Ricky Martin in the bottom right corner to represent Puerto Rico. What then do we do when Guam and the Virgin Islands become states?   #28   Jun 11, '17, 12:01 pm ProVobis Forum Elder   Join Date: January 26, 2008 Posts: 43,251 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40222376 So you thought I was off the political mark? What would erode their power IMO would be legal gerrymandering, which I understand they are fighting.   #29   Jun 11, '17, 12:14 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle That would totally mess up the "Fifty Nifty United States" song! AAAAACCCCKKK! How does the "Fifty Nifty United States" song go? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #30   Jun 11, '17, 12:31 pm GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by ProVobis What then do we do when Guam and the Virgin Islands become states? Fifty plus PR, USVI, Guam...... What other 4 states did BHO campaign in?? ICXC NIKA   Jun 11, '17, 1:09 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie Fifty plus PR, USVI, Guam...... What other 4 states did BHO campaign in?? ICXC NIKA Cuba! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #32   Jun 11, '17, 1:14 pm Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows How does the "Fifty Nifty United States" song go? "Fifty Nifty United States" with lyrics Here's another song that would be ruined by the addition of additional states: "Wakko's 50 States and Their Capitals" with lyrics __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #33   Jun 11, '17, 1:31 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle "Fifty Nifty United States" with lyrics Here's another song that would be ruined by the addition of additional states: "Wakko's 50 States and Their Capitals" with lyrics Thanks! Do kids learn the states in alphabetical order now? I guess I better learn that song! I have already forgotten most of the capitals! I got an award in 5th grade for learning all 50 states and capitals, but that was in 1962! 55 years ago! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #34   Jun 11, '17, 1:44 pm Trader Regular Member   Join Date: June 28, 2007 Posts: 3,894 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 Flag manufacturers are going to love it. So will Mississippi, which would lose its status as the poorest state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ates_by_income Given its spotty history on wanting to be part of the US, I don't think their application for statehood would be approved. Statehood is not something you can reverse in the next election. If Ontario wanted to become a state the rest of us would gain more than we would from Puerto Rico.   #35   Jun 11, '17, 2:36 pm GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Thanks! Do kids learn the states in alphabetical order now? I guess I better learn that song! I have already forgotten most of the capitals! I got an award in 5th grade for learning all 50 states and capitals, but that was in 1962! 55 years ago! We haven't added any states since then maybe it will be time to add San Juan! ICXC NIKA   #36   Jun 11, '17, 2:45 pm Jeanne S Veteran Member   Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 10,859 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Cuba! That still doesn't add up to 57   #37   Jun 11, '17, 3:13 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Jeanne S That still doesn't add up to 57 __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #38   Jun 11, '17, 3:19 pm Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite) Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Wedge Antilles ...I like the symmetry of 50... I actually like the symmetry of 51 better. 2/3 vote for impeachment in the Senate comes to a nice round 34 votes. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska   #39   Jun 11, '17, 3:40 pm Jeanne S Veteran Member   Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 10,859 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo I actually like the symmetry of 51 better. 2/3 vote for impeachment in the Senate comes to a nice round 34 votes.   #40   Jun 11, '17, 4:02 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo I actually like the symmetry of 51 better. 2/3 vote for impeachment in the Senate comes to a nice round 34 votes. Except I thought it's the House that votes on impeachment and then 2/3 of the Senate is required for removal. And 2/3 of 102 (with 2 Puerto Rican senators) would equal 68. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #41   Jun 11, '17, 4:06 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer It is bad, in my opinion, because the Democratic party does not officially recognize the unborn human being's fundamental right to life and supports “safe and legal abortion” as “core to women’s, men’s, and young people’s health and well-being” which is an intrinsically evil political policy. https://www.plannedparenthoodaction....-hint-terribly Yes there are various opinions on the matter indeed. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #42   Jun 11, '17, 5:29 pm chero23 Forum Master   Join Date: November 12, 2012 Posts: 15,743 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer If they ever became a U.S. state, one of the most likely results would be two more Democratic party Senators in the U.S. Senate in perpetuity. This is a comment that is divisive and unwarranted __________________ Check out my Catholic Apologetic Booklet. 121 themes/doctrines, 5,200 Bible Verses, 192 pages. English https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TE...bFU/edit?pli=1 Spanish https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TE...M2c/edit?pli=1 Let others know about my booklet.   #43   Jun 11, '17, 5:30 pm chero23 Forum Master   Join Date: November 12, 2012 Posts: 15,743 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer It is bad, in my opinion, because the Democratic party does not officially recognize the unborn human being's fundamental right to life and supports “safe and legal abortion” as “core to women’s, men’s, and young people’s health and well-being” which is an intrinsically evil political policy. https://www.plannedparenthoodaction....-hint-terribly Not all red states as a whole support pro life. If we used your logic every state should be taken away from state recognition __________________ Check out my Catholic Apologetic Booklet. 121 themes/doctrines, 5,200 Bible Verses, 192 pages. English https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TE...bFU/edit?pli=1 Spanish https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TE...M2c/edit?pli=1 Let others know about my booklet.   #44   Jun 11, '17, 5:47 pm Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite) Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe Except I thought it's the House that votes on impeachment and then 2/3 of the Senate is required for removal. And 2/3 of 102 (with 2 Puerto Rican senators) would equal 68. Oops. Of course. Slight mis-calc there. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska   #45   Jun 11, '17, 5:51 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Oops. Of course. Slight mis-calc there. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis) Jun 11, '17, 7:58 pm Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite) Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Just read that Puerto Rico voted overwhelmingly for statehood. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska   #47   Jun 11, '17, 9:22 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Jeanne S Look at all the scandals Obama, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch were involved with and not once any mention of special counsel! Anyone see a double standard. This is a witch hunt. I hope it backfires on the Democrats like the 2016 election did. Why would Puerto Rico want to join the mess of a country we are right now? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #48   Jun 11, '17, 9:26 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Just read that Puerto Rico voted overwhelmingly for statehood. I saw 97% did but a low turnout. Considering the US generally has rather low turnouts for elections, PR might fit right in. President Trump signaled during the campaign that he is open to PR becoming our 51st state. But I doubt the Republican Congress would admit PR. It will be a matter of politics for them. http://thehill.com/homenews/news/337...r-of-statehood http://www.bostonherald.com/news/int...hit_by_boycott __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #49   Jun 11, '17, 9:29 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Just read that Puerto Rico voted overwhelmingly for statehood. 23% voter turnout. They are wondering if it will be valid. They were asked to boycott the vote. That is a real low turnout! __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #50   Jun 11, '17, 9:38 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Why would Puerto Rico want to join the mess of a country we are right now? Maybe because they are US citizens and thus would rather take the next step and officially become part of the nation of states and have full representation in Congress rather than remain a territory that belongs to but is not part of the US and also rather than becoming an independent country. I don't see any states seceding because of the mess we are in. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #51   Jun 11, '17, 9:41 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows 23% voter turnout. They are wondering if it will be valid. They were asked to boycott the vote. That is a real low turnout! Only 36.4 percent of eligible voters turned out in 2014 in the US election. Not exactly a great number either. Should we have made that election invalid? http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...t-in-70-years/ Voter turnout was the lowest last year for a Presidential election in 20 years. How about if we make that one invalid too? You all in? http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politi...016/index.html __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #52   Jun 11, '17, 9:48 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe Maybe because they are US citizens and thus would rather take the next step and officially become part of the nation of states and have full representation in Congress rather than remain a territory that belongs to but is not part of the US and also rather than becoming an independent country. I don't see any states seceding because of the mess we are in. Do you know how many elections they have had up until today to vote for statehood? That is because they are already in. What has been the advantage of remaining a territory for so many decades? Why were so many against statehood before? Is it the debt they have? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #53   Jun 11, '17, 9:51 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe Only 36.4 percent of eligible voters turned out in 2014 in the US election. Not exactly a great number either. Should we have made that election invalid? http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...t-in-70-years/ Voter turnout was the lowest last year for a Presidential election in 20 years. How about if we make that one invalid too? You all in? http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politi...016/index.html 2014 wasn't a presidential election year either and there were still plenty of voters in the 2016 election. Maybe not for the democrats. I am not the one that is saying the result may not be valid. That is from the news story I read. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #54   Jun 11, '17, 10:15 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Do you know how many elections they have had up until today to vote for statehood? That is because they are already in. What has been the advantage of remaining a territory for so many decades? Why were so many against statehood before? Is it the debt they have? I know in 1998, none of the above received 50.5% and statehood was a close second even way back then with about 47% support even when turnout was a whopping 71%! By 2012 statehood won. 54% voted against the status quo and of those, 61% voted for statehood. No I can not say the debt is the only reason. There are other reasons why US citizens might want to become part of the richest nation on the planet. They may want the ability to vote in all US elections and the disabled and the sick and the poor may be helped better with disability benefits and Medicaid and a higher federal minimum wage. Aiding the disabled and the sick and the poor all are good things the last I checked. Maybe even more so to Jesus than how much money the rich have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateh...statehood_vote __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #55   Jun 11, '17, 10:18 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows 2014 wasn't a presidential election year either and there were still plenty of voters in the 2016 election. Maybe not for the democrats. I am not the one that is saying the result may not be valid. That is from the news story I read. I suppose if you think the lowest turnout in 20 yrs according to the link I provided was plenty. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #56   Jun 12, '17, 3:45 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Do you know how many elections they have had up until today to vote for statehood? That is because they are already in. What has been the advantage of remaining a territory for so many decades? Why were so many against statehood before? Is it the debt they have? A handful might have wanted to keep the option of future independence, but really, their territorial status is not a bad one. ICXC NIKA   #57   Jun 12, '17, 4:32 am Xystus Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2016 Posts: 693 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows 23% voter turnout. They are wondering if it will be valid. They were asked to boycott the vote. That is a real low turnout! I heard on the radio it was a "non-binding" vote but the Governor is going to push hard to make Puerto Rico the 51st State.... and i just purchased a new flag, maybe I should have waited.   #58   Jun 12, '17, 6:08 am ProVobis Forum Elder   Join Date: January 26, 2008 Posts: 43,251 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle "Fifty Nifty United States" with lyrics Here's another song that would be ruined by the addition of additional states: "Wakko's 50 States and Their Capitals" with lyrics We could always combine the Dakotas to counter.   #59   Jun 12, '17, 6:16 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,739 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows Why would Puerto Rico want to join the mess of a country we are right now? Because it's a worse one. I truly hope congress will back away from this, using whatever means it has to do it. Alternatively, perhaps it should be annexed to Massachusetts.   #60   Jun 12, '17, 6:26 am John Lazarus Regular Member   Join Date: January 24, 2010 Posts: 4,568 Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Trader So will Mississippi, which would lose its status as the poorest state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ates_by_income Given its spotty history on wanting to be part of the US, I don't think their application for statehood would be approved. Statehood is not something you can reverse in the next election. If Ontario wanted to become a state the rest of us would gain more than we would from Puerto Rico. Hey, hey...mitts off our country, you imperialist, you! __________________ "I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole." — Vlad II, Voivode of Wallachia     Jun 12, '17, 6:53 am Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by John Lazarus Hey, hey...mitts off our country, you imperialist, you! Annexing Canada... I think the heads of state from all nations from the North Pole to Panama should unite and create one nation. Who's in? Actually, that idea is a bit too close to creating a 1984 world map. Never mind. __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #62   Jun 12, '17, 7:14 am John Lazarus Regular Member   Join Date: January 24, 2010 Posts: 4,568 Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle Annexing Canada... I think the heads of state from all nations from the North Pole to Panama should unite and create one nation. Who's in? Nope. You can't have Canada. You can keep Justin Bieber, though. __________________ "I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole." — Vlad II, Voivode of Wallachia   #63   Jun 12, '17, 7:19 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle Annexing Canada... I think the heads of state from all nations from the North Pole to Panama should unite and create one nation. Who's in? Actually, that idea is a bit too close to creating a 1984 world map. Never mind. Would that include Greenland? What would the Danes think? ICXC NIKA   #64   Jun 12, '17, 7:19 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,739 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by John Lazarus Nope. You can't have Canada. You can keep Justin Bieber, though. I'm content that Canada remain Canada. After all, they have that strange holiday called "Boxing Day" and say "snew" instead of "snow". And they sing "God save the queen" to the tune of "America". Can't live with those things.   #65   Jun 12, '17, 8:00 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,924 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I'm content that Canada remain Canada. After all, they have that strange holiday called "Boxing Day" and say "snew" instead of "snow". And they sing "God save the queen" to the tune of "America". Can't live with those things. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #66   Jun 12, '17, 8:38 am Xystus Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2016 Posts: 693 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by John Lazarus Nope. You can't have Canada. You can keep Justin Bieber, though. I will gladly take Bieber if you take all those annoying people who promise to move to Canada if Person X wins an election then never follows through.   #67   Jun 12, '17, 8:48 am Trader Regular Member   Join Date: June 28, 2007 Posts: 3,894 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by John Lazarus Hey, hey...mitts off our country, you imperialist, you! I apologize for being a "little" provocative there. I live in Fort Wayne, Indiana named for General Anthony Wayne, the victor in the battle of Fallen Timbers of 1794 which repelled the aggression of British Canada in the Northwest Territory. Fort Wayne was founded that same year. Except for a little skirmish during the War of 1812 where the US briefly invaded Canada, we have been remarkably good neighbors, and I hope that continues. I would offer you Puerto Rico as a peace offering if that was within my power. I understand Canadians would love to have a warm spot to visit during those long winters. Canadian tourism would be a big help to their economy.   #68   Jun 12, '17, 8:51 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,373 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Xystus I will gladly take Bieber if you take all those annoying people who promise to move to Canada if Person X wins an election then never follows through. They wouldn't go so what's the point?   #69   Jun 12, '17, 9:31 am Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,035 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I'm content that Canada remain Canada. After all, they have that strange holiday called "Boxing Day" and say "snew" instead of "snow". And they sing "God save the queen" to the tune of "America". Can't live with those things. I and others could live with universal healthcare however. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #70   Jun 12, '17, 10:23 am Xystus Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2016 Posts: 693 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie They wouldn't go so what's the point? I thought anything involving Justin Beiber would be seen as obviously not something to take seriously. I guess not.   #71   Jun 12, '17, 10:25 am Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by John Lazarus Nope. You can't have Canada. You can keep Justin Bieber, though. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #72   Jun 12, '17, 10:48 am Wedge Antilles Regular Member   Join Date: January 31, 2017 Posts: 592 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle I wonder how the rest of the country felt about other territories becoming states back in the day. What was the benefit of adding Alaska as a state? What was the benefit of Minnesota? Or Washington? Or Arizona? Remember that US history your long-suffering high school teacher trying to teach you? Puerto Rico is just like other US territories, except that citizens there have never voted to become a US state, unlike the other 50 territories. My only real concern about have 51 states is it would totally ruin the song "Fifty Nifty United States" that I teach my students. Couldn't care less if they vote Republican or Democrat. As for their debt, we didn't force Arkansas or California out of the US when they were drowning in debt. And like it or not, Puerto Rico is currently a US territory and part of the US. No offense, but who cares? It comes down to cost-benefit analysis. What is the major net gain for the rest of us? What is the cost? Same decisions the government is supposed to make for us every time they do anything, frankly.   #73   Jun 12, '17, 11:28 am Xystus Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2016 Posts: 693 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle Remember that US history your long-suffering high school teacher trying to teach you? Puerto Rico is just like other US territories, except that citizens there have never voted to become a US state, unlike the other 50 territories. I hope your high school history teacher did not tell you that all 50 states were once territories. The 13 original colonies were never territories. Texas was its own republic before becoming a State. Kentucky was part of Virginia. Maine succeeded from Massachusetts. Vermont was disputed between New Hampshire and New York for a bit. West Virginia broke off from Virginia. I'm not sure if California was considered a territory or not in the very brief post Mexican-American war period before it became a state.   #74   Jun 12, '17, 12:28 pm John Lazarus Regular Member   Join Date: January 24, 2010 Posts: 4,568 Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I'm content that Canada remain Canada. After all, they have that strange holiday called "Boxing Day" and say "snew" instead of "snow". And they sing "God save the queen" to the tune of "America". Can't live with those things. I can't believe you sing your national anthem to a British drinking song. __________________ "I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole." — Vlad II, Voivode of Wallachia   #75   Jun 12, '17, 6:14 pm Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,344 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood Quote: Originally Posted by Xystus I hope your high school history teacher did not tell you that all 50 states were once territories. The 13 original colonies were never territories. Texas was its own republic before becoming a State. Kentucky was part of Virginia. Maine succeeded from Massachusetts. Vermont was disputed between New Hampshire and New York for a bit. West Virginia broke off from Virginia. I'm not sure if California was considered a territory or not in the very brief post Mexican-American war period before it became a state. Actually, I did know most of that. Amazing the things you can learn from songs for elementary students. __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   Jun 13, '17, 4:06 am pnewton Forum Elder   Join Date: June 1, 2004 Posts: 34,087 Religion: Catholic Re: Puerto Rico to Vote Sunday on Statehood They should get the status they want, but I feel the same way about any state or territory. __________________ "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in." - Jesus Nooo!! I didn't mean it!