Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity

Secularism/atheism		34	61.82%
Wahhabism (Sunni Islamic terror)		3	5.45%
Other (please explain)		18	32.73%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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#1   Jun 7, '16, 1:27 pm

DeusExMachina Junior Member   Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 368 Religion: Anglican (Episcopal Church)

Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Ive bern thinking about this lately about the various reasons why global Christianity is in the amount of danger that it is http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...worlds-5450794. That being said, it bears thinking about, I believe, what exactly we are dealing with, what is causing this decline. 2 obvious factors quickly come to mind: secularization, and Islamic extremism. What I'm interested to learn about is which one of those is a bigger threat to Christianity around the world. I personally would make the case for the former, if only because of the demographic impact; namely that less than 5% of all Christians live in Muslim-majority countries, compared to nearly 70% in Europe and the Americas (where the primary catalyst in Christian decline is secularism); note this is not meant to belittle the horrors our Middle-Eastern and African brethren are subjected to by Islamists. Anyway, as usual, feel free to disagree with me. Any and all thoughts are welcome

#2   Jun 7, '16, 3:25 pm

johnnyc176 Regular Member   Join Date: October 3, 2010 Posts: 3,979 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I would say protestantism. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church, in fact they are One and the Same but that Truth gets obscured as people see all the protestant denominations and the anti Catholic attitudes within protestantism. __________________ The celebration of Holy Mass has the same value as the Death of Jesus on the Cross. - St. Thomas Aquinas St. Louis IX pray for us!

#3   Jun 7, '16, 3:51 pm

aicirt Banned   Join Date: September 22, 2008 Posts: 3,771 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity The biggest threat is Catholics not knowing their religion and, therefore, unable to evangelize. I agree with Johnny C regarding Protestantism but we can't answer their questions if we don't avail ourselves of the answers.

#4   Jun 7, '16, 4:04 pm

thephilosopher6 Regular Member Greeter Prayer Warrior   Join Date: October 5, 2015 Posts: 1,465 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by johnnyc176 I would say protestantism. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church, in fact they are One and the Same but that Truth gets obscured as people see all the protestant denominations and the anti Catholic attitudes within protestantism. He's talking about Christianity as a whole not just Catholicism. __________________

#5   Jun 7, '16, 4:04 pm

Joseph3 Banned   Join Date: March 17, 2016 Posts: 2,137 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I think the biggest threat to Christianity is the Illuminati. The Illuminati is a secular humanist/occult organization that seeks to establish a New World Order. They are opposed to all religion. The New World Order contains agendas that go against natural law like LGBT rights and abortion. They invented communism to implement their agenda.

#6   Jun 7, '16, 4:14 pm

ChurchSoldier Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2012 Posts: 3,397 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by aicirt The biggest threat is Catholics not knowing their religion and, therefore, unable to evangelize. I agree with Johnny C regarding Protestantism but we can't answer their questions if we don't avail ourselves of the answers. Similarly, I was going to say apathetic Christians and leaders. Secularism and Islam are making inroads due to weak Christians and the resulting vulnerability. __________________ Be nice. Everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about FWIW I generally don't subscribe or follow the threads where I make comments. If you would like to engage please send me a pm and the thread title and I'll go back to it.

#7   Jun 7, '16, 4:17 pm

Seamus L Senior Member   Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,074 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I think that modernism, liberalism (by today's definition) could all be listed under secularism-atheism. Wahhabism may destroy the body, but Secularism destroys the soul.

#8   Jun 7, '16, 4:21 pm

ThePoorInSpirit New Member   Join Date: February 5, 2011 Posts: 37 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I wasn't sure if this would fall under atheism/secularism but I feel relativism is the biggest enemy to Christianity. Too many people in the Church have their own views of who God is and how his Church should behave here on Earth and how God's people should respond to the problems we face today.

#9   Jun 7, '16, 4:22 pm

cheezey Forum Master   Join Date: December 9, 2012 Posts: 19,294

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by thephilosopher6 He's talking about Christianity as a whole not just Catholicism. __________________ "...never give in, never give in, never, never, never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense." Winston Churchill

#10   Jun 7, '16, 4:22 pm

ClearWater Veteran Member   Join Date: April 30, 2011 Posts: 10,573 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Believe it was Our Lady of Fatima who said atheism and communism would be the greatest threats to Catholicism. __________________ http://www.themostholyrosary.com/15promises.htm Seven Sorrows of Mary Promises and Devotion http://www.themostholyrosary.com/appendix1.htm

#11   Jun 7, '16, 4:23 pm

phil19034 Senior Member   Join Date: September 19, 2013 Posts: 6,782 Religion: Catholic - Roman Rite

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by thephilosopher6 He's talking about Christianity as a whole not just Catholicism. Well... protestantism ultimately leads to secularism because protestantism leads to people "picking and choosing" what they believe in. Protestantism directly creates relativism which feeds secularism. The neo-atheists are relentless and tricky too and are contributing to the secularism. First part of the neo-atheists is the "Jewish Atheists." Reason: they are anti-Christianity, yet hide behind a Jewish label. They claim stuff like "this is not fair to Jews, etc." confusing religious Jews and Christians. They often do not publicly argue their points as an atheist, but publicly as a Jew. However, they do not believe in God, etc. Point is, they confuse everyone by making their pluralistic arguments, etc; but they don't believe in God. Many of them even go to temple each weekend, but they still don't believe in God. The other group of neo-atheists the PhD scientists who are "religiously" trying to prove to people that there is no God. However, regardless of the name of their degree, they have no Philosophical training. __________________ I often post from my iPhone, so please forgive typos Visit Lighthouse Catholic Media Join CD/MP3 of the Month Club Are you in ministry & want a professional email address? Visit parishconsultants.org

#12   Jun 7, '16, 4:24 pm

Joseph3 Banned   Join Date: March 17, 2016 Posts: 2,137 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by ClearWater Believe it was Our Lady of Fatima who said atheism and communism would be the greatest threats to Catholicism. Amen to that. The atheistic ideologies of communism and socialism threaten Christian values. This is especially true in the West.

#13   Jun 7, '16, 4:26 pm

RPRPsych Banned Prayer Warrior   Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,112 Religion: Catholic. I leave the adjectives to wiser heads.

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I voted "other", because we're our own worst enemies. On the one hand, we have Catholics (and I've seen them on this forum) claiming that rape victims are to be blamed, that using illegal drugs is absolutely fine and that only the evil government wants to regulate them, that beating one's wife is acceptable, that we need to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on contraception, that abortion isn't all that bad, that we can interpret the Bible as liberally as we want, that fundamentalist Islam is just misunderstood, that gay marriage is fine because "it's True Love", that "all people are saved", and that it's perfectly fine to collaborate formally and materially in evil as long as it suits one's "political convictions". On the other hand, we have Catholics (who don't last long on this forum, but who are active elsewhere) claiming that fascism and racism are ordained in the Bible, that the Jews are responsible for all the troubles of the world, that every natural disaster is "the Coming Chastisement", that the Pope and Vatican are evil and false leaders, that we need to rebel openly against them (including the use of arms), that everyone outside their little cultic groups are damned, and who read like a combination of Alex Jones and Lyndon LaRouche at their very worst. Remember the standard to which God's people were held in the Old Testament, and what happened to them for failing to live up to that standard. Secularism and radical Islam are external evils, just as the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc., were in those days. But the true enemies, then as now, are the ones within.

#14   Jun 7, '16, 5:04 pm

johnnyc176 Regular Member   Join Date: October 3, 2010 Posts: 3,979 Religion: Catholic

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by thephilosopher6 He's talking about Christianity as a whole not just Catholicism. Understood. My opinion is the same. __________________ The celebration of Holy Mass has the same value as the Death of Jesus on the Cross. - St. Thomas Aquinas St. Louis IX pray for us!

#15   Jun 7, '16, 5:11 pm

DeusExMachina Junior Member   Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 368 Religion: Anglican (Episcopal Church)

Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by ThePoorInSpirit I wasn't sure if this would fall under atheism/secularism but I feel relativism is the biggest enemy to Christianity. Too many people in the Church have their own views of who God is and how his Church should behave here on Earth and how God's people should respond to the problems we face today. You could say that mindset is a product of secularism (think "quit forcing religion down my throat")      Jun 7, '16, 5:31 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I think Television, the Mainstream News Media (including Fox / 21st Century Fox), Hollywood movies, secularized education and, underlying it all, Benthamite Utilitarianism, are the biggest threats to Christianity. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #17   Jun 7, '16, 5:54 pm Beryllos Senior Member   Join Date: May 23, 2013 Posts: 7,026 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Your poll has a pretty short list of choices.   #18   Jun 7, '16, 6:34 pm tseleehw Junior Member   Join Date: April 11, 2016 Posts: 367 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I voted for secularism/atheism. We have already seen the damage it can do in attempting to destroy the family unit, attempting to allow unregulated abortions, etc., at least in the U.S. I will say though that Islamic terrorism is the biggest threat to Christians in and near the Middle East. Overall though, although radical Islam has made more headway in Europe due to its geographic proximity, I don't think it's a serious threat yet in the U.S other than the occasional terrorist attack. There are too many people here that distrust Islam for it to affect our society in any noticeable way, at least yet. People won't tolerate it here.   #19   Jun 7, '16, 6:53 pm sallybutler Regular Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 3,707 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I think the biggest threat to Christianity is 'Christians'. Those that use Christianity as an excuse for treating people worse than they would their pet dog or cat, those who use Christianity as an excuse for punishing children because of who they were born to, those who use Christianity as an excuse to shun family as if they were dead, those who use Christianity as an excuse to ignore the laws of science and nature that God made. How many people feel unloved by those of us that claim to be Christians? __________________ 'Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.' James 1:26   #20   Jun 7, '16, 6:56 pm ThePoorInSpirit New Member   Join Date: February 5, 2011 Posts: 37 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by DeusExMachina You could say that mindset is a product of secularism (think "quit forcing religion down my throat") right on!!!   #21   Jun 7, '16, 7:14 pm ModernKnight New Member   Join Date: May 31, 2016 Posts: 32 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Other The various apostasies and heresies that have lead to the way the world is now. Pope St. Pius X said that modernism is the synthesis of all heresies. Modernism has tremendously helped people to believe that they can do whatever they want without consequence, has convinced people that their is no true religion, and therefore no point to religion or truth, and that everything is subjective- beliefs, morality, ethics, ect, among other things. All the deviations of the Church work to steal people from Heaven, as the Church is the way, and have convinced many, especially young people, that religion is just a scam. And as another said, "The evil in the world is due to lukewarm Catholics." -Pope St. Pius V   #22   Jun 7, '16, 7:30 pm ChurchSoldier Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2012 Posts: 3,397 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by ModernKnight Other The various apostasies and heresies that have lead to the way the world is now. Pope St. Pius X said that modernism is the synthesis of all heresies. Modernism has tremendously helped people to believe that they can do whatever they want without consequence, has convinced people that their is no true religion, and therefore no point to religion or truth, and that everything is subjective- beliefs, morality, ethics, ect, among other things. All the deviations of the Church work to steal people from Heaven, as the Church is the way, and have convinced many, especially young people, that religion is just a scam. And as another said, "The evil in the world is due to lukewarm Catholics." -Pope St. Pius V How true. __________________ Be nice. Everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about FWIW I generally don't subscribe or follow the threads where I make comments. If you would like to engage please send me a pm and the thread title and I'll go back to it.   #23   Jun 7, '16, 8:17 pm Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite) Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Christian disunity is the biggest threat to Christianity. A house divided against itself can not stand. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska   #24   Jun 8, '16, 10:07 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,710 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by ModernKnight Other The various apostasies and heresies that have lead to the way the world is now. Pope St. Pius X said that modernism is the synthesis of all heresies. Modernism has tremendously helped people to believe that they can do whatever they want without consequence, has convinced people that their is no true religion, and therefore no point to religion or truth, and that everything is subjective- beliefs, morality, ethics, ect, among other things. All the deviations of the Church work to steal people from Heaven, as the Church is the way, and have convinced many, especially young people, that religion is just a scam. And as another said, "The evil in the world is due to lukewarm Catholics." -Pope St. Pius V I would agree with this. Modernism is relativism and subjectivism. I do believe it was engendered proximately by Protestantism which, at its core, is subjective when it comes to faith and morals.   #25   Jun 8, '16, 10:31 am Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,329 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Whoever owns the media owns the human mind itself. Secularism is far, far and away the biggest threat. Nothing else is even remotely close. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #26   Jun 8, '16, 12:45 pm TCEL Regular Member   Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity My husband's opinion is influenced by his work, but he tends to think Islam is a bigger threat than secularism, if mainly for the reason that secularism ultimately pretends the soul doesn't exist. It's chestless. It will peter out. Islam acknowledges the soul, and has a track record. Man does not live by bread alone, and Islam knows this. I feel torn by the two. In my circumstances, secularism is certainly the greater threat. But I don't live in a place where militant Islam is in control. So I didn't vote. __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #27   Jun 8, '16, 12:52 pm Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,329 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by TCEL My husband's opinion is influenced by his work, but he tends to think Islam is a bigger threat than secularism, if mainly for the reason that secularism ultimately pretends the soul doesn't exist. It's chestless. It will peter out. Islam acknowledges the soul, and has a track record. Man does not live by bread alone, and Islam knows this. I feel torn by the two. In my circumstances, secularism is certainly the greater threat. But I don't live in a place where militant Islam is in control. So I didn't vote. I understand what you mean about being torn. http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/living...tudy-religion/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ligious-group/ In my earlier post I was thinking more of American Christianity, actually. World Christianity may be a completely different story. I'm in no position to really know. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #28   Jun 8, '16, 2:38 pm ChurchSoldier Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2012 Posts: 3,397 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child Whoever owns the media owns the human mind itself. Secularism is far, far and away the biggest threat. Nothing else is even remotely close. While I agree with your initial concept (the often quoted 17th/18th century Scottish politician Andrew Fletcher "let me write the songs of a nation and I don't care who writes the laws"), I can't help but think of the early church. It was in a place hostile towards its beliefs, yet with a few dedicated believers changed the world. I can't believe that in a town with say 1000 Catholics going to mass on Sunday, if half of them showed up at a city council meeting to voice there opinion, that they couldn't change the laws. The problem is, we have Catholics/Christians who either don't care, or who are so poorly developed in the faith that they are no force at all. I live outside a major city where Islam is taking root. When speaking to the adherents, they all say they pray daily, study the scriptures and believe in the mission of what they are doing. What laymen do you know who do that? People are looking for spiritual depth. We, as active Christians/Catholics, need to be the leaders in the world to build up the faith and the movement. Islam and secularism are taking hold in large part due to the inactivity of the Church to promote the faith. Thanks for the reply. __________________ Be nice. Everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about FWIW I generally don't subscribe or follow the threads where I make comments. If you would like to engage please send me a pm and the thread title and I'll go back to it.   #29   Jun 8, '16, 4:34 pm Joseph3 Banned   Join Date: March 17, 2016 Posts: 2,137 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer I think Television, the Mainstream News Media (including Fox / 21st Century Fox), Hollywood movies, secularized education and, underlying it all, Benthamite Utilitarianism, are the biggest threats to Christianity. This includes Frozen. It is a tale of witchcraft, bitterness, and lust:http://www.incpu.org/Disney-frozen-a-short-study.pdf Those things run contrary to Christianity.   #30   Jun 8, '16, 5:01 pm BellsMom Junior Member   Join Date: March 9, 2010 Posts: 381 Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by Joseph3 This includes Frozen. It is a tale of witchcraft, bitterness, and lust:http://www.incpu.org/Disney-frozen-a-short-study.pdf Those things run contrary to Christianity. Olaf!!! Oh no you didn't! Jun 8, '16, 5:59 pm ChurchSoldier Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2012 Posts: 3,397 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by ChurchSoldier While I agree with your initial concept (the often quoted 17th/18th century Scottish politician Andrew Fletcher "let me write the songs of a nation and I don't care who writes the laws"), I can't help but think of the early church. It was in a place hostile towards its beliefs, yet with a few dedicated believers changed the world. I can't believe that in a town with say 1000 Catholics going to mass on Sunday, if half of them showed up at a city council meeting to voice there opinion, that they couldn't change the laws. The problem is, we have Catholics/Christians who either don't care, or who are so poorly developed in the faith that they are no force at all. I live outside a major city where Islam is taking root. When speaking to the adherents, they all say they pray daily, study the scriptures and believe in the mission of what they are doing. What laymen do you know who do that? People are looking for spiritual depth. We, as active Christians/Catholics, need to be the leaders in the world to build up the faith and the movement. Islam and secularism are taking hold in large part due to the inactivity of the Church to promote the faith. Thanks for the reply. Geez, after re-reading this it sounds a bit like a rant. Didn't mean for it to. My apologies if it was offensive. __________________ Be nice. Everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about FWIW I generally don't subscribe or follow the threads where I make comments. If you would like to engage please send me a pm and the thread title and I'll go back to it.   #32   Jun 8, '16, 8:55 pm RPRPsych Banned Prayer Warrior   Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,112 Religion: Catholic. I leave the adjectives to wiser heads. Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by BellsMom Olaf!!! Oh no you didn't! Is Frozen the new Harry Potter in terms of "generating fruitless and vituperative debate"?   #33   Jun 8, '16, 9:33 pm Bob Crowley Regular Member   Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,040 Religion: Catholic (Ex Protestant) Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by johnnyc176 I would say protestantism. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church, in fact they are One and the Same but that Truth gets obscured as people see all the protestant denominations and the anti Catholic attitudes within protestantism. I would say much the same thing. As Christ said, ".. a divided house will not stand..." (or words to that effect). If we presented a united face to the world, it would take us more seriously. But since we are so divided, why should the world, or other religions, take us seriously? There was a time when Pope Gregory VII could force Emperor Henry IV to seek forgiveness and absolution of his sins. The Emperor knelt in the snow for three days outside Canossa in Italy. He was probably the most powerful political Western figure of his day. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the German princes remembered this incident when they supported Luther, as Henry IV was German. With the advent of Luther, the church/es came under their control. When and where God gave authority to secular rulers to control the church isn't in my Bible. The kind of universal clout the church had back then is a mere shadow today.   #34   Jun 9, '16, 1:41 am Giggly Giraffe Regular Member   Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 4,804 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Reality TV is the biggest threat to the planet! To clarify what genre Reality Encompasses: News programs, Entertainment reporting, Game Shows, and mindless following of culture. Reality TV is what gave presidential nominee Trump his platform. It is the doom of us all, and as I understand, reality TV is the prefered viewing world wide. __________________ Married autumn 2009 Spring 2011 Sumer 2012   #35   Jun 9, '16, 7:28 am J_Peterson Regular Member   Join Date: April 7, 2012 Posts: 3,823 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I don't know enough about world Christianity to name the biggest threat, but probably ISIS and similar groups in the middle east. That would be my guess. In the micro-world of American Christianity, the greatest threat to Christianity is Christians.   #36   Jun 9, '16, 1:32 pm Seamus L Senior Member   Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,074 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I remember hearing someone make an argument awhile back, that people who see secularism as a greater threat than ISIS, are really scary, because if ISIS has to be destroyed, what does that say about people who hold secularist views.   #37   Jun 9, '16, 3:10 pm HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Salafi Muslims(Wahhabi is a deragtory term afaik) are just like Zionist Jews...there are peaceful Salafi Muslims and there are peaceful Zionist Jews. I do not let a few criminals of these groups represent the entire groups. There are on facebook groups of Salafi Muslims who meet with non Muslims in coffee shops, why? For peace. I find that terrorism and religion have nothing to do with each other. It is a secular, non religious approach that religions can be terrorist. The term terrorist was used firstly during the French revolution. Other terms, which hurt the feelings of religious people....such as Christianist and Islamist...have been used to describe criminals. As has terms like Jihadist(invented in 1989) and radical Christian/radical Muslim been used to describe criminals. For me as a Catholic...I dont think that Christianity in any way endorses terrorism. As a Catholic I am taught to be nice to others, to love my neighbor. Jesus did not say the neighbor has to be a Christian in order to be loved. I do not think its appropriate, let alone accurate to claim that religion endorses terrorism. Religion does not kill people, people kill people. So I disagree with a part of the poll..Islam or Salafi Muslims does not equal=terrorist. Al Qaeda and ISIL are terrorist groups, they are not following the teachings of Islam correctly just as the KKK did not correctly follow the teachings of Christianity. I see Islam as a beautiful loving religion. Muhammad admired Christians, As Muhammad Hamidullah states “of all the religions, the Prophet found Christianity the most sympathetic http://www.fountainmagazine.com/Issu...and-Christians __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15   #38   Jun 9, '16, 3:11 pm HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L I remember hearing someone make an argument awhile back, that people who see secularism as a greater threat than ISIS, are really scary, because if ISIS has to be destroyed, what does that say about people who hold secularist views. I find that ISIL is a terrorist group and they are a threat to Christians as well as non Christians . But standing united against ISIL are many many Muslims and Christians. In Syria, Iraq, Kurdish groups and militias in Iraq and Syria there are Christians and Muslims working together to remove ISIL from Iraq and Syria. __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15   #39   Jun 9, '16, 3:40 pm grotto   Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 2,894 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Suffer for the love of God and one another is not valued. Selfish gratification and vanity. These are the largest symptoms of evil that seem to tempt the majority today. __________________ "What amazed Edward Winslow during the summer of 1622 was how "reasonable men will be led to reason against their own safety." MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick   #40   Jun 9, '16, 3:43 pm Loving disciple Regular Member   Join Date: April 24, 2012 Posts: 963 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity I would say it is the lose of faith in Christians then other religions like Islam but not alone snatching them up because we believers have failed to light there heart on fire __________________ Kyrie Eleison St. Joan of Arc pray for us   #41   Jun 9, '16, 8:05 pm TCEL Regular Member   Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by HolyCrusader007 Salafi Muslims(Wahhabi is a deragtory term afaik) are just like Zionist Jews...there are peaceful Salafi Muslims and there are peaceful Zionist Jews. I do not let a few criminals of these groups represent the entire groups. There are on facebook groups of Salafi Muslims who meet with non Muslims in coffee shops, why? For peace. I find that terrorism and religion have nothing to do with each other. It is a secular, non religious approach that religions can be terrorist. The term terrorist was used firstly during the French revolution. Other terms, which hurt the feelings of religious people....such as Christianist and Islamist...have been used to describe criminals. As has terms like Jihadist(invented in 1989) and radical Christian/radical Muslim been used to describe criminals. For me as a Catholic...I dont think that Christianity in any way endorses terrorism. As a Catholic I am taught to be nice to others, to love my neighbor. Jesus did not say the neighbor has to be a Christian in order to be loved. I do not think its appropriate, let alone accurate to claim that religion endorses terrorism. Religion does not kill people, people kill people. So I disagree with a part of the poll..Islam or Salafi Muslims does not equal=terrorist. Al Qaeda and ISIL are terrorist groups, they are not following the teachings of Islam correctly just as the KKK did not correctly follow the teachings of Christianity. I see Islam as a beautiful loving religion. Muhammad admired Christians, As Muhammad Hamidullah states “of all the religions, the Prophet found Christianity the most sympathetic http://www.fountainmagazine.com/Issu...and-Christians I haven't studied Islam very much, but in light of what you just said, my question then becomes; which interpretation is correct or most true to the original, and who has the authority to make their interpretation carry weight? Why insist one person's interpretation is more valid than another? Does Islam have a pretty universally recognized magisterium? __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #42   Jun 9, '16, 9:00 pm Expatreprocedit Regular Member   Join Date: February 24, 2014 Posts: 1,158 Religion: Orthodox Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity The worldwide cult of Money is the biggest threat to Christianity. Given the prominence of Pope Francis's attacks on the cult of Money, I believe that is what he believes also.   #43   Jun 10, '16, 11:12 am DeusExMachina Junior Member   Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 368 Religion: Anglican (Episcopal Church) Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by HolyCrusader007 Salafi Muslims(Wahhabi is a deragtory term afaik) are just like Zionist Jews...there are peaceful Salafi Muslims and there are peaceful Zionist Jews. I do not let a few criminals of these groups represent the entire groups. There are on facebook groups of Salafi Muslims who meet with non Muslims in coffee shops, why? For peace. I find that terrorism and religion have nothing to do with each other. It is a secular, non religious approach that religions can be terrorist. The term terrorist was used firstly during the French revolution. Other terms, which hurt the feelings of religious people....such as Christianist and Islamist...have been used to describe criminals. As has terms like Jihadist(invented in 1989) and radical Christian/radical Muslim been used to describe criminals. For me as a Catholic...I dont think that Christianity in any way endorses terrorism. As a Catholic I am taught to be nice to others, to love my neighbor. Jesus did not say the neighbor has to be a Christian in order to be loved. I do not think its appropriate, let alone accurate to claim that religion endorses terrorism. Religion does not kill people, people kill people. So I disagree with a part of the poll..Islam or Salafi Muslims does not equal=terrorist. Al Qaeda and ISIL are terrorist groups, they are not following the teachings of Islam correctly just as the KKK did not correctly follow the teachings of Christianity. I see Islam as a beautiful loving religion. Muhammad admired Christians, As Muhammad Hamidullah states “of all the religions, the Prophet found Christianity the most sympathetic http://www.fountainmagazine.com/Issu...and-Christians There is a difference between salafism and wahhabism. Salafism simply means one desires to return to the type of Islam taught in the early centuries AH (no innovation, no saints, strict obedience to the Quran and Hadith, etc.); it is true that not all Salafis are terrorists but sadly, many are.Wahhabism is a specific kind of Salafism, which is the state religion of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, as well as the basic ideology of Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Hizb-u-Tahrir, and the Muslim Brotherhood. It's two main beliefs are thus:God's law (Shari'ah) must be strictly enforced everywhere, and violent jihad should be used against unbelievers, which include both non-Muslims (kafir) and non-Salafi Muslims. Yes, I agree, the more moderate kind of Islam is indeed a beautiful, peaceful religion, but we shouldn't pretend that ALL Islam rejects violence and extremism, for that would be intellectually dishonest   #44   Jun 10, '16, 1:30 pm HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by TCEL I haven't studied Islam very much, but in light of what you just said, my question then becomes; which interpretation is correct or most true to the original, and who has the authority to make their interpretation carry weight? Why insist one person's interpretation is more valid than another? Does Islam have a pretty universally recognized magisterium? Its like with Christianity I suppose...there are multiple denominations of Christianity and Islam. Treat others as you want to be treated is a core of not only Christianity, but also Islam. Therefore any terrorist goes against all of the denominations of Christianity and Islam. __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15   #45   Jun 10, '16, 1:41 pm HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by DeusExMachina There is a difference between salafism and wahhabism. Salafism simply means one desires to return to the type of Islam taught in the early centuries AH (no innovation, no saints, strict obedience to the Quran and Hadith, etc.); it is true that not all Salafis are terrorists but sadly, many are.Wahhabism is a specific kind of Salafism, which is the state religion of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, as well as the basic ideology of Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Hizb-u-Tahrir, and the Muslim Brotherhood. It's two main beliefs are thus:God's law (Shari'ah) must be strictly enforced everywhere, and violent jihad should be used against unbelievers, which include both non-Muslims (kafir) and non-Salafi Muslims. Yes, I agree, the more moderate kind of Islam is indeed a beautiful, peaceful religion, but we shouldn't pretend that ALL Islam rejects violence and extremism, for that would be intellectually dishonest The Muslim brother hood was actually a legit group in Egypt, but in any event the MB are no longer in Egypt. I would compare the MB to Zionist Jewish groups in Israel in any event. I have seen in both Egypt(including during the brief time of the MB) and Israel peaceful relations between multiple religious groups. I suppose that maybe some of the MB members through history have committed terrorism, but it would not be fair to then simply label all the Muslim brotherhood members of the world as terrorist. Im still unsure if the term Wahhabism is a legit term in the first place. Can you show a dictionary showing this term Wahhabism, and when was this term Wahhabism first used? Afaik even the Muslim terrorists like AQ and ISIL members do not refer to themselves as Wahhabi Muslims. I know ISIL refers to itself as a Sunni Muslim group. Saudi Arabia is certainly a very conservative country, and its official religion is Islam. In Saudi Arabia women do not have a right to drive, but many Saudis say this goes against Islam. There have been public cases of Saudi women getting behind the wheel to go out for a drive...this received much support from both Saudi men and women. In addition non Muslims live in Saudi Arabia, for example many American Christians live in Saudi Arabia where they have high paying jobs. Some of the Al Qaeda members are indeed from Saudi Arabia, but there are also Americans, Brits,Frenchmen, all sorts of nationalities have joined with terrorist groups like AQ and ISIL. I find that it is not appropriate, let alone accurate to apply terms like moderate to religions. I have seen this done with Christianity, where folks use terms like moderate Christians or Christianst.... And this offends me because basically I see it as the person saying a part of my religion condones terrorism. I feel I have a duty as a Catholic to respect non Catholics, so I would not use a term such as moderate to describe Muslims...for me a AQ member is a criminal(a Muslim also but a criminal instead of "Islamist or Jihadist") and the many peaceful Muslims of the world are Muslims instead of moderate or extremist Muslims. __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15 Last edited by HolyCrusader007; Jun 10, '16 at 1:54 pm.        Jun 10, '16, 2:07 pm TCEL Regular Member   Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by HolyCrusader007 Its like with Christianity I suppose...there are multiple denominations of Christianity and Islam. Treat others as you want to be treated is a core of not only Christianity, but also Islam. Therefore any terrorist goes against all of the denominations of Christianity and Islam. Islam has been around a lot longer than the past one hundred years though. While it isn't my place to dictate what authentic Islam is, I'm distrustful that it was all about our modern understanding of peace from the beginning. __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #47   Jun 10, '16, 3:03 pm Nelka Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: August 14, 2010 Posts: 13,750 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity __________________ "As you see Me in this chalice, so I dwell in your heart." Divine Mercy of Jesus.   #48   Jun 10, '16, 6:52 pm DeusExMachina Junior Member   Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 368 Religion: Anglican (Episcopal Church) Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by TCEL Islam has been around a lot longer than the past one hundred years though. While it isn't my place to dictate what authentic Islam is, I'm distrustful that it was all about our modern understanding of peace from the beginning. I agree   #49   Jun 10, '16, 6:57 pm DeusExMachina Junior Member   Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 368 Religion: Anglican (Episcopal Church) Re: Poll: Biggest threat to world Christianity Quote: Originally Posted by TCEL I haven't studied Islam very much, but in light of what you just said, my question then becomes; which interpretation is correct or most true to the original, and who has the authority to make their interpretation carry weight? Why insist one person's interpretation is more valid than another? Does Islam have a pretty universally recognized magisterium? Shia Islam does; the Ayatollahs are pretty universally recognized by them. But Sunnis are closer to Christian Evangelicals in that they put weight behind any scholar's personal interpretation of the Quran and Hadith