French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC]

Jul 26, '16, 2:37 am

Isca Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: November 28, 2013 Posts: 1,801 Religion: Catholic

French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] News emerging of two armed attackers taking a priest and others hostage in a church in Rouen. The attackers have been killed by security forces, but sadly it appears a priest has been murdered. May his soul rest in peace. https://www.rt.com/news/353311-franc...hurch-rouvray/

#2   Jul 26, '16, 2:57 am

pepipop Regular Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 4,151 Religion: catholic

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Complete insanity. May the soul of the priest RIP, and prayers for all those injured. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-church.html BREAKING NEWS: Priest is butchered by knifemen who cut his throat after bursting into French church and taking hostages before being shot dead by police A priest had his throat cut after two knifemen burst into the church at 9am Two sisters from a local order and two churchgoers were also held hostage Both of the hostage takers have since been shot dead by police marksmen Raid happened at Church of the Gambetta in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, Normandy

#3   Jul 26, '16, 3:07 am

Tablefor9 Regular Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Posts: 1,103 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Remember, Lord, those who have died and have gone before us marked with the sign of faith, especially those for whom we now pray. May these, and all who sleep in Christ, find in Your presence light, happiness and peace. Through Christ our Lord. Amen. __________________ "In the heart of Jesus, which was pierced, the kingdom of heaven and the land of earth are bound together. Here is for us the source of life."--St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross

#4   Jul 26, '16, 3:55 am

MartinJordan Regular Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,667 Religion: καθολικός

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Very shocked and saddened. May dear Fr. soul be taken straight to be the Lord. It was during a Mass. MJ __________________ Whenever anyone obeys what Christ has said, God’s love comes to perfection in him. 1 John 2:5 My Lord and My God

#5   Jul 26, '16, 4:10 am

CWN News CAF News Bot Join Date: December 2, 2004 Posts: 8,303

French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CWN] Two men with knives entered a church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, France, during Mass and took a priest and several worshippers hostage, according to media reports. More... __________________ This is an automated news feed from a generally-reliable Catholic source. Should the content fall outside CAF guidelines, please do not hesitate to report it using the Report Post icon. * * * * * * * * * Discussion welcomed and encouraged.

#6   Jul 26, '16, 4:10 am

Catholic Press CAF News Bot Join Date: November 29, 2004 Posts: 82,429

French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Two men with knives entered a church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, France, during Mass and took a priest and several worshippers hostage, according to media reports. More... __________________ This is an automated news feed from a generally-reliable Catholic source. Should the content fall outside CAF guidelines, please do not hesitate to report it using the Report Post icon. * * * * * * * * * Discussion welcomed and encouraged.

#7   Jul 26, '16, 4:39 am

Isca Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: November 28, 2013 Posts: 1,801 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed The priest who has been murdered was Fr Jacques Hamel, and he was 84 years old.

#8   Jul 26, '16, 5:09 am

pepipop Regular Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 4,151 Religion: catholic

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Isca The priest who has been murdered was Fr Jacques Hamel, and he was 84 years old. Here is some information about Fr Hamel, may he RIP. http://www.bitfeed.co/page/saint-eti...ristian-martyr

#9   Jul 26, '16, 5:20 am

CatholicSheila Regular Member Join Date: February 23, 2012 Posts: 696 Religion: Catholic, Latin Rite

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed May the Lord have mercy upon his soul.

#10   Jul 26, '16, 5:54 am

pepipop Regular Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 4,151 Religion: catholic

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...rmandy-church/ The men shouted "Daesh" and cut the priest's throat before being "neutralised," police said. "The unspeakable has happened" "The unspeakable has happened," the archbishop of Rouen Dominique Lebrun said in reaction to the attack in Normandy. Pope 'shares in grief and horror of this violence' Father Federico Lombardi, head of the Vatican press office, has issued a statement about the attack. "It's terrible news that comes unfortunately after a number of violent attacks in recent days that have already upset us and created immense grief and concern," he said. "The Pope has been informed and shares in the grief and horror over this perverse violence, condemning in the most dramatic way every form of hatred and offering prayers for the people affected. "We are particularly struck because this horrible violence, with the barbaric killing of a priest and the involvement of the faithful, happened in a church, a sacred place which stands for the love of God. "We express our closeness to the church in France, the archdiocese of Rouen and affected community and to the French people."

#11   Jul 26, '16, 5:57 am

DeniseNY Senior Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 8,073 Religion: Byzantine Catholic ☦

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-church.html Quote: Elderly priest, 86, is 'beheaded' by two ISIS knifemen shouting 'Allahu Akbar' after they took nuns and worshippers hostage at French church: Police shoot both attackers dead then search for bombs __________________ Thank you, St. Jude! Patron of hopeless and impossible cases! http://www.shrineofstjude.org/site/P...e=ssj_homepage Please support the cause for the Beatification and Canonization of Rhoda Wise: http://rhodawise.com/

#12   Jul 26, '16, 6:20 am

GraceSofia Regular Member Book Club Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 1,928

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed And this, kids, is why Brexit happened. Cardinal Burke seems to be one of the few in the Church who has his head screwed on straight. Quote: ...the American cardinal criticised Christian leaders who “simply think that Islam is a religion like the Catholic faith or the Jewish faith.” “That simply is not objectively the case,” he claimed. “When they become a majority in any country then they have the religious obligation to govern that country,” the cardinal added. “If that’s what the citizens of a nation want, well, then, they should just allow this to go on. But if that’s not what they want, then they have to find a way to deal with it.” He also said that areas of France and Belgium have become “no-go zones” that are effectively “little Muslim states”. When asked how the West should respond to increasing Islamisation, Cardinal Burke said: “I think the appropriate response is to be firm about the Christian origin of our own nation, and certainly in Europe, and the Christian foundations of the government, and to fortify those.” http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...-govern-world/

#13   Jul 26, '16, 6:41 am

Seamus L Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,087 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed It's just going to keep happening. And if Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc open there borders it's going to happen to them too.

#14   Jul 26, '16, 6:43 am

IdiNaPut Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Posts: 435 Religion: Student of Catholicism

Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed I'm scared... __________________ Drugo iskušenje ne dođe na vas osim čovečijeg; ali je veran Bog koji vas neće pustiti da se iskušate većma nego što možete, nego će učiniti s iskušenjem i kraj, da možete podneti.

#15   Jul 26, '16, 6:56 am

gilliam Forum Elder Join Date: June 11, 2004 Posts: 37,957 Religion: Catholic

Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Francois Hollande says France is at war with ISIS after two Islamist knifemen butchered a French priest and left a nun fighting for her life before they were both shot dead by police in Normandy. One of the men who stormed into the church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray near Rouen during mass was a 19-year-old French national, who was being monitored by electronic tag after being jailed for trying to join fanatics in Syria. The 86-year-old priest, named as Jacques Hamel, was beheaded while a nun is critically injured in hospital following the raid which saw five people held hostage by ISIS assailants shouting Allahu Akbar. This afternoon it emerged that the murdered clergyman was deputising while the parish priest was on holiday. French authorities say they have arrested a third man in connection with the attack. The two killers were 'neutralised' by marksmen as they emerged from the building, which is now being searched for explosives. French president Hollande said France is 'at war' with ISIS while the terror group has claimed responsibility for the killing. It comes as it emerged that the building was one of a number of Catholic churches on a terrorist 'hit list' found on a suspected ISIS extremist last April. There are also reports that one of the attackers was a local resident who was under electronic tag surveillance having been jailed in France for trying to travel to Syria in 2015. His bail terms allowed him to be unsupervised between 8.30am and 12.30pm - the attack happened between 9am and 11am. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4FWTu8jRF __________________ -gilliam Catholicism is not the religious version of a political ideology Jul 26, '16, 6:59 am tawny Veteran Member Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: November 10, 2013 Posts: 29,883 Religion: Roman Catholic/OFS Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Praying for the deceased & injured & their families. __________________ May the Holy Spirit forever guide you throughout life's journey. Pax et Bonum   #17   Jul 26, '16, 6:59 am Holly3278 Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Join Date: April 21, 2005 Posts: 21,702 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed This is so sad. I just wonder if this makes the priest a martyr or not.   #18   Jul 26, '16, 7:00 am queenofheartscv Regular Member Join Date: January 25, 2016 Posts: 3,399 Religion: Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Holly3278 This is so sad. I just wonder if this makes the priest a martyr or not. Absolutely. He was killed for his faith.   #19   Jul 26, '16, 7:07 am JosephHope Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2016 Posts: 122 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Saddened but obviously this good priest was summoned home. He is now happy and my eyes are in tears as I type.   #20   Jul 26, '16, 7:08 am jediliz Regular Member Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 4,541 Religion: Catholic and Proud of it! Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Just awful . .. perhaps it is time for France to let citizens own guns for self defense and concealed carry Rip father Jacques. He is truly a martyr __________________ A Rosary a Day Keeps the Devil Away! "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." - Our Lady of Fatima Who will speak for those who have no voice? Life.....what a beautiful choice!   #21   Jul 26, '16, 7:09 am tomarin Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 7,538 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass I wonder were the killers French citizens? What a horrible story - that poor priest killed like an animal while celebrating mass. This makes my blood boil. __________________ If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137   #22   Jul 26, '16, 7:11 am Padres1969 Regular Member Join Date: October 28, 2015 Posts: 5,291 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by pepipop http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...rmandy-church/ The men shouted "Daesh" and cut the priest's throat before being "neutralised," police said. "The unspeakable has happened" "The unspeakable has happened," the archbishop of Rouen Dominique Lebrun said in reaction to the attack in Normandy. Pope 'shares in grief and horror of this violence' Father Federico Lombardi, head of the Vatican press office, has issued a statement about the attack. "It's terrible news that comes unfortunately after a number of violent attacks in recent days that have already upset us and created immense grief and concern," he said. "The Pope has been informed and shares in the grief and horror over this perverse violence, condemning in the most dramatic way every form of hatred and offering prayers for the people affected. "We are particularly struck because this horrible violence, with the barbaric killing of a priest and the involvement of the faithful, happened in a church, a sacred place which stands for the love of God. "We express our closeness to the church in France, the archdiocese of Rouen and affected community and to the French people." They yelled 'Daesh' before they attacked the priest? Daesh typically hates that term for their organization. That alone means this is likely copycat killers. May the priest rest in peace and praying for the nun's recovery.   #23   Jul 26, '16, 7:11 am zz912 Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 7,484 Religion: Catholic Since 4/3/10 Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Holly3278 This is so sad. I just wonder if this makes the priest a martyr or not. Of course he's a martyr. Muslims killed him because of his Christian faith, while he was saying Mass. It's a clear case of martyrdom.   #24   Jul 26, '16, 7:12 am Adonia Banned Join Date: November 6, 2005 Posts: 1,245 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by gilliam Francois Hollande says France is at war with ISIS after two Islamist knifemen butchered a French priest and left a nun fighting for her life before they were both shot dead by police in Normandy. One of the men who stormed into the church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray near Rouen during mass was a 19-year-old French national, who was being monitored by electronic tag after being jailed for trying to join fanatics in Syria. The 86-year-old priest, named as Jacques Hamel, was beheaded while a nun is critically injured in hospital following the raid which saw five people held hostage by ISIS assailants shouting Allahu Akbar. This afternoon it emerged that the murdered clergyman was deputising while the parish priest was on holiday. French authorities say they have arrested a third man in connection with the attack. The two killers were 'neutralised' by marksmen as they emerged from the building, which is now being searched for explosives. French president Hollande said France is 'at war' with ISIS while the terror group has claimed responsibility for the killing. It comes as it emerged that the building was one of a number of Catholic churches on a terrorist 'hit list' found on a suspected ISIS extremist last April. There are also reports that one of the attackers was a local resident who was under electronic tag surveillance having been jailed in France for trying to travel to Syria in 2015. His bail terms allowed him to be unsupervised between 8.30am and 12.30pm - the attack happened between 9am and 11am. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4FWTu8jRF So Mr. Hollande says France is at war with ISIS, okay then, when will he be sending French ground troops and the rest of the French military to Syria to destroy them? Don't hold your breath because we have heard though talk from him before and besides dropping a few bombs he has so far done nothing to prosecute this "war" of his.   #25   Jul 26, '16, 7:13 am tomarin Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 7,538 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Adonia So Mr. Hollande says France is at war with ISIS. Okay, when will he be sending French ground troops and the rest of the French military to Syria to destroy them? Don't hold your breath because we have heard though talk from him before and besides dropping a few bombs nothing has happened. Right. Heavy on rhetoric, light on any meaningful action. __________________ If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137   #26   Jul 26, '16, 7:14 am rmartensjr Junior Member Join Date: November 6, 2010 Posts: 296 Religion: Charismatic Roman Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Attacking an elderly priest and defenseless nuns shows that these ISIS "fighters" are nothing but COWARDS. __________________ "In the end, for all eternity, you and I will be in heaven or hell...period!" Fr. John Corapi   #27   Jul 26, '16, 7:16 am Entwhistler Junior Member Join Date: May 21, 2015 Posts: 452 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Adonia So Mr. Hollande says France is at war with ISIS, okay then, when will he be sending French ground troops and the rest of the French military to Syria to destroy them? Don't hold your breath because we have heard though talk from him before and besides dropping a few bombs he has so far done nothing to prosecute this "war" of his. I wonder how long the French people will stand for these acts of violence before the government decides to do something useful. __________________ Do not be hasty.   #28   Jul 26, '16, 7:16 am tomarin Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 7,538 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by rmartensjr Attacking an elderly priest and defenseless nuns shows that these ISIS "fighters" are nothing but COWARDS. All of these terrorists are. __________________ If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137   #29   Jul 26, '16, 7:16 am Padres1969 Regular Member Join Date: October 28, 2015 Posts: 5,291 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L It's just going to keep happening. And if Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc open there borders it's going to happen to them too. Most of these attacks aren't being carried out by foreigners, but by citizens. Tight borders might stop new trouble from arriving, but much of it appears home grown as well.   #30   Jul 26, '16, 7:33 am zamyrabyrd Regular Member Join Date: September 25, 2014 Posts: 1,073 Religion: Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L It's just going to keep happening. And if Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc open there borders it's going to happen to them too. Hungary got it right - to be kind (to their own citizens) sometimes is to seem cruel (to the unfiltered mob at the gates).  Jul 26, '16, 7:35 am redbaron162 Junior Member Join Date: February 25, 2014 Posts: 389 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass This is why I advocate to carry at Mass (and anywhere else for that matter) . I believe many Mexicans had to carry weapons to church to protect the church during the Cristada War   #32   Jul 26, '16, 7:35 am queenofheartscv Regular Member Join Date: January 25, 2016 Posts: 3,399 Religion: Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Padres1969 They yelled 'Daesh' before they attacked the priest? Daesh typically hates that term for their organization. That alone means this is likely copycat killers. May the priest rest in peace and praying for the nun's recovery. What is daesh?   #33   Jul 26, '16, 7:36 am zamyrabyrd Regular Member Join Date: September 25, 2014 Posts: 1,073 Religion: Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Padres1969 Most of these attacks aren't being carried out by foreigners, but by citizens. Tight borders might stop new trouble from arriving, but much of it appears home grown as well. Right, they are called "knife wielding teen" or "French and Belgian citizens" until we find out they were shouting "Allah Akbar". Meanwhile CNN, BBC, etc., are scratching their heads to figure out the motives.   #34   Jul 26, '16, 7:37 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,298 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz Just awful . .. perhaps it is time for France to let citizens own guns for self defense and concealed carry Rip father Jacques. He is truly a martyr Those are for the French Government, and the Vatican, respectively to decide. May LORD have mercy on all involved. ICXC NIKA   #35   Jul 26, '16, 7:39 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,298 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by tomarin I wonder were the killers French citizens? What a horrible story - that poor priest killed like an animal while celebrating mass. This makes my blood boil. It is always animal to be killed. Death is the biggest thing we share with the animals. But in this case, the Padre shared this indignity with our LORD Himself. ICXC NIKA   #36   Jul 26, '16, 7:42 am Seamus L Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,087 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass This is becoming the new normal for Western Europe. This isn't all that's going on in France at the moment, they've just had several nights of violence in immigrant communities with cars and even buildings being torched over the death of an African by the name of Adama Traore in police custody. I think it's time the police were issued shoot to kill orders for anyone throwing a fire bomb, but I expect alot of innocent people will have to die first before people come to there senses.   #37   Jul 26, '16, 7:47 am gilliam Forum Elder Join Date: June 11, 2004 Posts: 37,957 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Pope condemns 'absurd violence' after priest is killed in French church Vatican City, Jul 26, 2016 / 07:27 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis has decried the “absurd violence” which has left an elderly priest dead after his church in northern France was taken hostage during Mass. In a statement released Tuesday by the Vatican, the Pope, having been informed of the situation, “participates in the pain and horror of this absurd violence,” while radically condemning “every form of hatred.” The statement said the pontiff is praying for those affected by the tragedy, which took place in the Normandy region, adding that the Vatican is following the situation. Fr. Jacques Hamel, 84, was killed Tuesday after two armed gunmen stormed a church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray during Mass, the BBC reports. The assailants entered the church and took the celebrating priest and four others hostage. The BBC further cites police sources which say the priest’s throat was slit in the attack. Reuters reports that both of the hostage takers were shot dead by police. Authorities say one of the hostages has been critically wounded, the BBC reports. According to the ISIS-linked Amaq news agency, the assailants were "two soldiers of the Islamic State," the BBC reports. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...erm=daily+news __________________ -gilliam Catholicism is not the religious version of a political ideology   #38   Jul 26, '16, 7:51 am zz912 Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 7,484 Religion: Catholic Since 4/3/10 Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by queenofheartscv What is daesh? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...eatens-6841468   #39   Jul 26, '16, 7:56 am pepipop Regular Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 4,151 Religion: catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Not sure if this has been mentioned, below: If they have a database of these fanatics, round them all up and then deport them. The problem is that most of the perpetrators have been nationals of the countries involved. But some of these, I believe, were also known to the police as having sympathies with ISIS. One of the men who stormed into the church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray near Rouen during mass was a local man, who was being monitored by electronic tag after being jailed for trying to join fanatics in Syria. Mohammed Karabila, president of the Regional Council of the Muslim Faith for Haute-Normandie and head of the local Muslim cultural centre, said 'the person that did this odious act is known, and he has been followed by the police for at least a year and a half.' He said the attacker 'went to Turkey and security services were alerted after this.' He had no information about the second attacker. Mr Karabila said he was 'appalled by the death of his friend' and hoped that interfaith dialogue in his region would not be damaged. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4FWk12ZI4   #40   Jul 26, '16, 7:58 am queenofheartscv Regular Member Join Date: January 25, 2016 Posts: 3,399 Religion: Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by zz912 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...eatens-6841468 Thank you.   #41   Jul 26, '16, 7:58 am Isca Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: November 28, 2013 Posts: 1,801 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass This is Fr Hamel. May those who murdered him realise the sin they have committed. http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fra...s-de-rouen.php   #42   Jul 26, '16, 8:04 am jediliz Regular Member Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 4,541 Religion: Catholic and Proud of it! Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie Those are for the French Government, and the Vatican, respectively to decide. May LORD have mercy on all involved. ICXC NIKA the allowing French citizens to carry guns for protection or declaring this priest a martyr? __________________ A Rosary a Day Keeps the Devil Away! "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." - Our Lady of Fatima Who will speak for those who have no voice? Life.....what a beautiful choice!   #43   Jul 26, '16, 8:07 am gilliam Forum Elder Join Date: June 11, 2004 Posts: 37,957 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass France church where priest was killed came up on ISIS hit list http://nyp.st/2ab0mwO __________________ -gilliam Catholicism is not the religious version of a political ideology   #44   Jul 26, '16, 8:09 am estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Little did they know they were in more danger from the Airconditioning in the Church than they were ISIS   #45   Jul 26, '16, 8:38 am zamyrabyrd Regular Member Join Date: September 25, 2014 Posts: 1,073 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by pepipop Not sure if this has been mentioned, below: If they have a database of these fanatics, round them all up and then deport them. The problem is that most of the perpetrators have been nationals of the countries involved. But some of these, I believe, were also known to the police as having sympathies with ISIS. [/i] If their sympathies are with ISIS, then they are traitors and subversives. Bye, bye!!! Jul 26, '16, 8:41 am zz912 Senior Member   Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 7,484 Religion: Catholic Since 4/3/10 Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Isca This is Fr Hamel. May those who murdered him realise the sin they have committed. They have already stood before the judgment throne of Christ. They were killed by police. Their sins have been accounted and they are either in hell, or they are suffering incredibly in Purgatory.   #47   Jul 26, '16, 8:46 am Tarpeian Rock Regular Member   Join Date: July 17, 2010 Posts: 4,575 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass All prayers for the martyred priest. But of course, didn't our esteemed Secretary of State, John Kerry, just tell us that refrigerators and air conditioners are more dangerous than ISIS? So how could this have happened?   #48   Jul 26, '16, 8:50 am Seamus L Senior Member   Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,087 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass From what I hear from alot of people in Europe is that the situation in France, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Spain, Italy, etc, is much worse than being reported. I regularly hear stories of parks, train stations, shopping areas being practically taken over by large groups of men from North and Sub Saharan Africa, and the Middle East, who aggressively panhandle and harass women. No Go Areas for Europeans are growing in major cities, and in areas of Sweden and Germany, refugee kids with big chips on there shoulders are making life miserable for the locals. Why isn't mainstream media reporting it if it's really true ? Well based on the fact that when an Islamic radical goes on a rampage they seem to try to come with any other explanation accept the truth, so I tend to believe that pattern also applies to other incidents as well.   #49   Jul 26, '16, 8:59 am pepipop Regular Member   Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 4,151 Religion: catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass God bless Fr Hamel, RIP, and the others that had to witness this. Diabolical! Islamist knifemen forced priest, 84, to kneel and filmed his death as they slit his throat: Hollande says 'France is at war with ISIS' after jihadists storm French church during Mass chanting 'Allahu Akbar' The ISIS knifemen who stormed into a church in Normandy filmed themselves butchering an elderly priest after forcing him to kneel before performing a 'sermon in Arabic' at the altar, a terrified witness has today. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4FWzmt7CV   #50   Jul 26, '16, 9:02 am liturgyluver Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2011 Posts: 2,393 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L From what I hear from alot of people in Europe is that the situation in France, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Spain, Italy, etc, is much worse than being reported. I regularly hear stories of parks, train stations, shopping areas being practically taken over by large groups of men from North and Sub Saharan Africa, and the Middle East, who aggressively panhandle and harass women. No Go Areas for Europeans are growing in major cities, and in areas of Sweden and Germany, refugee kids with big chips on there shoulders are making life miserable for the locals. Why isn't mainstream media reporting it if it's really true ? Well based on the fact that when an Islamic radical goes on a rampage they seem to try to come with any other explanation accept the truth, so I tend to believe that pattern also applies to other incidents as well. Which area of Germany and Sweden are you talking about? I have just returned from Stockholm, and spent 2 weeks in May travelling through Germany and saw no such sights. And both countries are much, much safer than the USA.   #51   Jul 26, '16, 9:05 am gardenswithkids Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: December 19, 2004 Posts: 9,483 Religion: Catholic Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by Holly3278 This is so sad. I just wonder if this makes the priest a martyr or not. Until today, these types of martyrdoms have always felt like history from mostly far-away places. The killing of an elderly priest while he celebrates Mass sounds like stories in my children's "Stories of the Saints" books. Eternal rest grant unto him, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God rest in peace. Amen. While we pray for the repose of the soul of this priest, maybe instead we should be asking him to pray for us. I suppose it can't hurt to do both: Fr. Jacques, pray for us!   #52   Jul 26, '16, 9:11 am Bspencer New Member   Join Date: October 21, 2012 Posts: 65 Religion: Catholic And ISIS continues to prove they are really a loving group a couple of ISIS members just cut the throat of a priest while he was saying mass http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07...in-france.html and to avoid the inevitable 'fox news is biased and wrong' http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/europe...age/index.html and to include everyone, lets hear what MSNBC has to say nothing posted on their website   #53   Jul 26, '16, 9:13 am Hatikvah Regular Member   Join Date: November 20, 2015 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Protestant Re: And ISIS continues to prove they are really a loving group So it's even further sacrilege! This is not even an offense against men, it's one against God (though murder also is, but this is more direct). And democrats will say that they are "social justice warriors" and "innocent refugees" and that the "bad Christians" were doing something incorrectly.   #54   Jul 26, '16, 9:14 am Strydersroom Banned   Join Date: June 27, 2016 Posts: 504 Religion: agnostic Re: And ISIS continues to prove they are really a loving group there's already a thread about this and the subject line of this threads to be in poor taste in trying to use sarcasm for such a horrible murder.   #55   Jul 26, '16, 9:18 am Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L This is becoming the new normal for Western Europe. Merkel wanted open borders.   #56   Jul 26, '16, 9:23 am Seamus L Senior Member   Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,087 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Malmo in Sweden has had alot of problems, particularly the Rosengard area, and the Husby section of Stockholm.   #57   Jul 26, '16, 9:30 am qui est ce Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: July 5, 2005 Posts: 13,285 Religion: Catholic Christian Latin Rite Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by gardenswithkids Until today, these types of martyrdoms have always felt like history from mostly far-away places. The killing of an elderly priest while he celebrates Mass sounds like stories in my children's "Stories of the Saints" books. Eternal rest grant unto him, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God rest in peace. Amen. While we pray for the repose of the soul of this priest, maybe instead we should be asking him to pray for us. I suppose it can't hurt to do both: Fr. Jacques, pray for us! I will offer mass today for the conversion of ISIS members. I'm having a hard time praying for the souls of the two ISIS killers. Need Grace. __________________ Christine   #58   Jul 26, '16, 9:33 am Padres1969 Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2015 Posts: 5,291 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hostage situation in church in Rouen, France - reports that priest has been killed Quote: Originally Posted by queenofheartscv What is daesh? It's a pejorative term for the Islamic State that is used in the Middle East. It's really the Arabic acronym for the Islamic State (similar to how people in the west use ISIL), but for some reason IS has declared it to be wrong and have threatened violent retribution (such as cutting out the tongue or even death) on anyone who uses the term Daesh. Which to my mind is reason enough to use it exclusively to refer to the Islamic State. https://www.freewordcentre.com/explo...-alice-guthrie And it has the added bonus of not being the name of plenty of poor women and girls around the world whose beautiful name Isis has been co-opted by people to refer to Daesh.   #59   Jul 26, '16, 9:34 am Padres1969 Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2015 Posts: 5,291 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by gilliam France church where priest was killed came up on ISIS hit list http://nyp.st/2ab0mwO I read that too. Hopefully the other churches on the hit list take some form of precaution to protect themselves (and/or the authorities do so).   #60   Jul 26, '16, 9:34 am RPRPsych Banned Prayer Warrior   Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,112 Religion: Catholic. I leave the adjectives to wiser heads. Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Praying for the good Father's soul and all involved.       Jul 26, '16, 4:40 pm Vouthon Senior Member   Join Date: November 1, 2010 Posts: 7,140 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Padres1969 I have to give Daesh credit where credit is due, it's a devious strategy. Attack an institution, in this case the Catholic Church, who while largely abandoned by the people is still a part of their cultural fabric. And whose being attacked will incur maximum outrage and backlash against non-radical Muslims thus increasing the number of non-radical Muslims who will be susceptible to radicalization. Wash, rinse, repeat, potentially exponentially. And it has the added benefit to playing right into Daesh's own end of the world fantasy that "Rome" (read Catholic Church as the largest of the Christian Churches) will eventually bring "its armies" (meaning nominally "Christian" countries) against them in their Armageddon scenario at Dabiq. Excellent post - a self fulfilling prophecy, indeed. This has been a common theme with millenarian movements throughout history. There is a belief that the long awaited "utopia' can only be reached by utterly destroying the old temporal order, cleansing it through fire and blood in preparation of the new world, for which reason many radical millennial movements have deliberately pursued anarchy and violence in order to fulfil this prophetic dictum. ISIS is the most violent millennial movement I think we've ever seen but it exhibits traits in common with its milder predecessors, such as the Fifth Monarchy Men in England: http://bcw-project.org/church-and-st...th-monarchists Quote: The Fifth Monarchists The "Fifth Monarchy" or "Fifth Kingdom" refers to an interpretation of prophecies in the biblical books of Daniel and Revelation. Four kingdoms or eras in history (interpreted as the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires) would be followed by the Fifth Kingdom, which signified the Millennium, the thousand-year reign of Christ on Earth. The Millennium would last from Christ's second coming until the day of judgment. Millenarian beliefs became increasingly prevalent throughout the civil wars of the 1640s. While many believed that the second coming would be a spiritual revelation, the Fifth Monarchists expected a physical return in which Jesus would reign as king. It would be preceded by the establishment of a godly government on earth (the "Rule of the Saints"). For the Saints to prevail, the old order should be overthrown, by violence if necessary. Fifth Monarchists regarded the civil wars and the beheading of King Charles I in 1649 as a vital prelude to the Millennium... Influenced by Major-General Harrison, the Assembly was constituted in a way broadly similar to the Sanhedrin of the Old Testament. Several of the delegates were from Fifth Monarchist congregations and regarded the Assembly as an indication that the Rule of the Saints had begun. The Anglo-Dutch War (1652-4) was seen as a continuation of the process that had started with the civil wars. The Fifth Monarchists expected the war eventually to engulf the whole of Europe until Rome itself had fallen and the Pope, whom they identified with the Antichrist, was overthrown... For good reason does Holy Mother Church warn us to be wary of "political messianism" equating it with the 'spirit of antichrist': http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p1s2c2a7.htm Quote: 676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578 __________________ With insight into the futility of narrow nationalistic politics, the countries of Europe which have agreed to delegate sovereignty to a supranational organism have embarked on a salutary way - Pope Pius XII (1957)   #152   Jul 26, '16, 4:41 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,634 Religion: Jewish Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie Too much diversity and you don't have "a people" anymore, just square mileage held by disparate groups. Which is what the Atlantic nations are faced with. ICXC NIKA How about one overarching and unifying culture and diverse subcultures? In the case of the U.S., that is what we seem to have, and look how peaceful we are. Oops! Never mind. But my point remains regarding mutual respect and awareness.   #153   Jul 26, '16, 4:43 pm Padres1969 Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2015 Posts: 5,291 Religion: Episcopalian Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie Too much diversity and you don't have "a people" anymore, just square mileage held by disparate groups. Which is what the Atlantic nations are faced with. ICXC NIKA Well I mean that idea shouldn't be too foreign to Americans. We have always been diverse and have never really had "a people" in the sense that most other nations do.   #154   Jul 26, '16, 4:44 pm GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,298 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy How about one overarching and unifying culture and diverse subcultures? In the case of the U.S., that is what we seem to have, and look how peaceful we are. Oops! Never mind. But my point remains regarding mutual respect and awareness. We were more pacific in the 1900s, before we became too diverse. Having separate ethnic neighborhoods in big cities is great. Having ever-increasing contingents that reject assimilation is not. ICXC NIKA   #155   Jul 26, '16, 5:32 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by GEddie We were more pacific in the 1900s, before we became too diverse. Having separate ethnic neighborhoods in big cities is great. Having ever-increasing contingents that reject assimilation is not. ICXC NIKA In some eastern states there were neighborhoods of Irish, neighborhoods of Italians, neighborhoods of Jews, neighborhoods of Polish, neighborhoods of African Americans, etc.   #156   Jul 26, '16, 5:35 pm Geist Banned   Join Date: January 11, 2012 Posts: 1,329 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Michael Mayo I don't think liberals are the root cause of terrorism. Open borders are a major contributor of it, as is a culture of political correctness that prevents the majority from handling it.   #157   Jul 26, '16, 5:57 pm Beautiful Senior Member   Join Date: June 13, 2007 Posts: 6,897 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Padres1969 Well the percentage of the US population that is Muslim has more than doubled in the same period so that actually makes sense. It went from .4% of the population to .9% of the population are now Muslim. And the current number is expected to more than double by 2050. Most of the newly built USA mosques are Saudi funded. Christians are allowed to travel to Saudi Arabia but can't worship openly and are confined to private homes rather than Christian Churches - no Christian churches allowed.   #158   Jul 26, '16, 6:01 pm Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Funny that nobody saw any of this coming.   #159   Jul 26, '16, 6:03 pm estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Beautiful And the current number is expected to more than double by 2050. Most of the newly built USA mosques are Saudi funded. Christians are allowed to travel to Saudi Arabia but can't worship openly and are confined to private homes rather than Christian Churches - no Christian churches allowed. This is true. I had a Mosque client in Texas that was overnight bought out by a Saudi "charity" and expanded significantly. You may have heard of this mosque because when it was first built its neighbor began having pig races on his land during Friday prayer services . My clients thought it was absolutely hilarious   #160   Jul 26, '16, 6:09 pm mlz Senior Member Prayer Warrior Book Club Member   Join Date: November 21, 2008 Posts: 7,293 Religion: Catholic convert! Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] As Tertullian would say and we pray "that the blood of the martyrs are the seed of Christians". May our dear priest brother pray for us all as he was a martyr for the Christian faith. mlz   #161   Jul 26, '16, 6:12 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] As Mr. Sanders was saying last night at the DNC, and this is the way it sounded to my ears in his broad Brooklyn accent: Quote: While Donald Trump is busy insulting one group after another, Hillary Clinton understands that our DIE-versity is one of our greatest strengths. Yes. We become stronger when black and white, Latino, Asian-American, Native American – all of us – stand together. Yes. We become stronger when men and women, young and old, gay and straight, native born and immigrant fight to create the kind of country we all know we can become. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-bernie-sanders-speech-to-the-democratic-convention-2016-07-25 __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #162   Jul 26, '16, 6:12 pm Beautiful Senior Member   Join Date: June 13, 2007 Posts: 6,897 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl1958 Funny that nobody saw any of this coming. The minority of people who saw this coming sounded plenty of alarms and were largely ignored. Hopefully the politically correct will now understand that it is difficult to be politically correct and fight for social justice if they are dead. Given all that is obvious...in what manner must a Christian fight for social justice? This is a difficult question for most to answer. What does Jesus say?   #163   Jul 26, '16, 6:30 pm pianistclare Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 12, 2013 Posts: 30,805 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz I meant the people at Mass. Now I can understand why people want to be able to conceal carry. I would hate for armed security to have to be brought in.....but with the world the way it is, they may have to be.... Priests are not permitted to own guns. Our Archbishop has forbidden us to bring any guns to any Archdiocesan property. ESPECIALLY the Parishes. __________________ Music is the only art of heaven on earth... and the only art of earth that we take to heaven.   #164   Jul 26, '16, 6:35 pm jediliz Regular Member   Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 4,541 Religion: Catholic and Proud of it! Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Priests are not permitted to own guns. Our Archbishop has forbidden us to bring any guns to any Archdiocesan property. ESPECIALLY the Parishes. A young priest was killed last year in Arizona by a man who they thought needed help....the pastor owned a gun....but it was too late when he retrieved it. __________________ A Rosary a Day Keeps the Devil Away! "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." - Our Lady of Fatima Who will speak for those who have no voice? Life.....what a beautiful choice!   #165   Jul 26, '16, 6:39 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,634 Religion: Jewish Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer As Mr. Sanders was saying last night at the DNC, and this is the way it sounded to my ears in his broad Brooklyn accent: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-bernie-sanders-speech-to-the-democratic-convention-2016-07-25 Apart from what sounded to you as die-versity, are these words uttered by Bernie Sanders not true with regard to the brotherhood of humanity in the U.S.? Is this not something we should want to strive for?       Jul 26, '16, 6:40 pm pianistclare Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 12, 2013 Posts: 30,805 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz A young priest was killed last year in Arizona by a man who they thought needed help....the pastor owned a gun....but it was too late when he retrieved it. Maybe that's why our Archbishop instituted this. __________________ Music is the only art of heaven on earth... and the only art of earth that we take to heaven.   #167   Jul 26, '16, 6:46 pm Hoosier Daddy Forum Master   Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 12,162 Religion: Still Catholic...... Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Priests are not permitted to own guns. Our Archbishop has forbidden us to bring any guns to any Archdiocesan property. ESPECIALLY the Parishes. Nothing like advertising you have an unarmed target rich environment. Almost seems the opposite of what a shepherd would do. __________________ --- Better to be slapped with the Truth than kissed with a lie--------- Russian Proverb Hey, Visit my wife's site and buy yourself some spiffy T shirts! http://www.catholic-threads.com/   #168   Jul 26, '16, 6:48 pm Hoosier Daddy Forum Master   Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 12,162 Religion: Still Catholic...... Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Maybe that's why our Archbishop instituted this. Where is this ban published, I'd love to see the wording. __________________ --- Better to be slapped with the Truth than kissed with a lie--------- Russian Proverb Hey, Visit my wife's site and buy yourself some spiffy T shirts! http://www.catholic-threads.com/   #169   Jul 26, '16, 7:04 pm St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,501 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy "Oneness of culture and belief" sounds too boring to me. I think mutual respect, appreciation and knowledge of diverse cultures is key to peace. Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Apart from what sounded to you as die-versity, are these words uttered by Bernie Sanders not true with regard to the brotherhood of humanity in the U.S.? Is this not something we should want to strive for? I think that mutual respect, etc., is a worthy goal. How do we accomplish that wrt people who utterly reject mutual respect in favor of forced conversion? It's all well and good to say we should respect each other's beliefs, but when those beliefs include killing priests at Mass, then, no, no respect is due. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #170   Jul 26, '16, 7:05 pm pianistclare Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 12, 2013 Posts: 30,805 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy Where is this ban published, I'd love to see the wording. I'll have to go through all the Communique's but I'll find it. __________________ Music is the only art of heaven on earth... and the only art of earth that we take to heaven.   #171   Jul 26, '16, 7:06 pm pianistclare Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 12, 2013 Posts: 30,805 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Here it is. https://georgiabulletin.org/news/201...ch-facilities/ It's a good idea. Guns have no place in the Sanctuary. Talk about defiling the Lord's house. __________________ Music is the only art of heaven on earth... and the only art of earth that we take to heaven.   #172   Jul 26, '16, 7:58 pm 10gr8kids Regular Member   Join Date: November 28, 2011 Posts: 1,489 Religion: Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Priests are not permitted to own guns. Our Archbishop has forbidden us to bring any guns to any Archdiocesan property. ESPECIALLY the Parishes. From the link you posted... Quote: Clergy are permitted to own and keep a weapon securely in a rectory. __________________ "I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jerimiah 29:11   #173   Jul 26, '16, 7:58 pm St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,501 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Here it is. https://georgiabulletin.org/news/201...ch-facilities/ It's a good idea. Guns have no place in the Sanctuary. Talk about defiling the Lord's house. Sure, just let someone shoot your neighbor's... is that OK in God's house? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #174   Jul 26, '16, 8:26 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,634 Religion: Jewish Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis I think that mutual respect, etc., is a worthy goal. How do we accomplish that wrt people who utterly reject mutual respect in favor of forced conversion? It's all well and good to say we should respect each other's beliefs, but when those beliefs include killing priests at Mass, then, no, no respect is due. You're talking about terrorists and murderers but I'm talking about mutual respect between law-abiding citizens of the U.S. who come from a variety of (cultural) backgrounds. This is what Bernie Sanders stated and I think it is a worthy goal, don't you?   #175   Jul 26, '16, 8:31 pm Hatikvah Regular Member   Join Date: November 20, 2015 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Protestant Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy You're talking about terrorists and murderers but I'm talking about mutual respect between law-abiding citizens of the U.S. who come from a variety of (cultural) backgrounds. This is what Bernie Sanders stated and I think it is a worthy goal, don't you? That is a worthy goal in any legitimate multicultural (especially in the sense that the US is increasingly as such) society.   #176   Jul 26, '16, 8:39 pm GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,298 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone In some eastern states there were neighborhoods of Irish, neighborhoods of Italians, neighborhoods of Jews, neighborhoods of Polish, neighborhoods of African Americans, etc. But as time went on the descendants thereof became simply Americans with special foods, etc. The "new diversity" rejects that sort of unity. ICXC NIKA   #177   Jul 26, '16, 9:26 pm HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Rip to Rev. Jacques Hamel. Hamel is a martyr. Let me also add something very important. I believe , scratch that...I know God is watching to see how us Christians react to this story. I will say I wonder what this dead Priest would want us to say to the killer, maybe forgive the killer? What I also know is that ISIL and AQ want people like me to abhor Islam and all Muslims. And I refuse to give into ISILs division. I stand by the Syrian and Iraqi Muslims/Christians who are united against ISIL. __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15   #178   Jul 26, '16, 9:34 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Obviously, there is no justification for the brutal killing of this priest, who was friendly to a Muslim imam. But at the same time, it should be asked why ISIS started and why was there no ISIS before the US invasion of Iraq? There was a militant group Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad founded in 1999, but it wasn't until after the 2003 American invasion of Iraq that this group joined with other disaffected Sunnis to engage in bombings and suicide attacks on a larger scale. Also, what was the point of letting thousands of unvetted immigrants, some of whom had ties to terrorists, enter Europe via open borders? Why is Merkel still in power?   #179   Jul 26, '16, 9:45 pm zamyrabyrd Regular Member   Join Date: September 25, 2014 Posts: 1,073 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy How about one overarching and unifying culture and diverse subcultures? In the case of the U.S., that is what we seem to have, and look how peaceful we are. Oops! Never mind. But my point remains regarding mutual respect and awareness. There is a unifying culture all over the world already, but unfortunately it is popular culture: consumerism, controlled by moneyed and socialist interests. Pop music, frivolous games are everywhere; making money is a universal cherished goal. Materialism has to be in direct opposition to religion because it is about selling products, rather than personal enlightenment. . The former melting pot mentality of absorbing immigrants into the US demanded proficiency in English and pledge of allegiance. Underlying all this was a tacit acceptance of Judeo-Christian values at its basis. Sorry, but anything else, in particular, Sharia, is in direct opposition to them. Europe didn't want to be proud of its culture and heritage, thought it is not important anymore and so now, is reaping the whirlwind. Some Brits finally got the message and have the courage to admit publicly that England is a Christian country. But they may be too small a minority to have any affect. Europe is totally confused. With the destruction of the family, the last bastion of freedom and preservation of values, thanks to the acceptance of same-sex marriage and just about any other arrangement calling itself "family", mixed in with abortion and euthanasia, totally against Church teaching and Orthodox Judaism, the pillars of this particular civilization have been pulverized. The point is if there were some real opposition or push back, people understanding the need and importance for preserving their identity and culture, so much of radical Islam would have not felt so brazen and empowered.   #180   Jul 26, '16, 9:59 pm HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone Obviously, there is no justification for the brutal killing of this priest, who was friendly to a Muslim imam. But at the same time, it should be asked why ISIS started and why was there no ISIS before the US invasion of Iraq? There was a militant group Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad founded in 1999, but it wasn't until after the 2003 American invasion of Iraq that this group joined with other disaffected Sunnis to engage in bombings and suicide attacks on a larger scale. Also, what was the point of letting thousands of unvetted immigrants, some of whom had ties to terrorists, enter Europe via open borders? Why is Merkel still in power? I would say the USA should have never invaded Iraq. Prior to Iraq as well as other Arab countries such as Libya undergoing a regime change...there was far more peace and stability in the Mena region. I feel bad for the Euro folks who have been attacked by illegal immigrants, but I also feel bad for the Iraqi, Syrian and Libyan people who every single hour of every day have to worry about ISIL. In the 1980s Afghanistan was communist, Iraq and Syria were much better off. But once the 1990s came about, things started to get ugly in some of the Muslim majority countries...it seems it started with the fall of communist Afghanistan and got worse when Iraq fell in 2003 and then again got worse when Gaddifi fell in Libya a few years back. Syria has held on though. Brave heroic Syrian gov Christian and Muslim soldiers have remained in their countries to prevent ISIL from completely taking Syria. I would recommend working with the Syrian gov which is supported by numerous Christian leaders inside and outside of Syrian. __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15       Jul 26, '16, 10:00 pm Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis I think that mutual respect, etc., is a worthy goal. How do we accomplish that wrt people who utterly reject mutual respect in favor of forced conversion? It's all well and good to say we should respect each other's beliefs, but when those beliefs include killing priests at Mass, then, no, no respect is due. Pope Benedict XVI talked about mutual respect in terms of reciprocity. One-sided apology tours are not the way to go. When it comes to the relationship with God, well then, what does he have to apologize for, but every other group of people need to understand that nobody walks through this life without leaving footprints. Even myths about Mary walking through her childhood without her feet touching the ground are not scripture, but just myths. It is good that Ben's predecessor, St. Jon Paul II gave the apology on behalf of all Catholics to those of other faith traditions that Catholics have stepped on along the way. Initiating discussion through repentance is a very Catholic tradition. But it is not as if Catholics also do not have tread marks all over their backs too in this long history between ourselves and other religionists. Mutual respect includes self-respect, and that means not making oneself into a doormat. Catholic immigration policy is based on reciprocity. It involves not only being gracious hosts, but includes the expectation of gracious guests as well. Love is a relationship. If it is not a two way street, than it isn't love. Unfortunately, the left has so poisoned our culture that when guests state unequivocally that they have no intention of respecting the culture of their hosts, the West 'reciprocates' by self-loathing and agreeing that there is nothing worthwhile in our culture to respect. And the religious right often echoes that statement from the other direction. Hey hey ho ho western civ has got to go... going... going.... Last edited by Darryl1958; Jul 26, '16 at 10:16 pm.   #182   Jul 26, '16, 10:02 pm St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,501 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy You're talking about terrorists and murderers but I'm talking about mutual respect between law-abiding citizens of the U.S. who come from a variety of (cultural) backgrounds. This is what Bernie Sanders stated and I think it is a worthy goal, don't you? Well, I'd say most people are fine with respecting law-abiding citizens, esp most people here. Why is respect for other law-abiding people an issue on a thread about non–law-abiding people and their heinous and cowardly act? --I ask not only of you but all those who are discussing it. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #183   Jul 26, '16, 10:33 pm Hoosier Daddy Forum Master   Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 12,162 Religion: Still Catholic...... Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] This honestly was not shocking to me. In fact I can't believe it doesn't happen more. What shocks me and concerns me more than even a priest getting his head cut off is the utter lack of understanding from even Catholics about what we are facing. It shocks me the head on the sand mentality of some who refuse to see evil for what it is. Even when thier own clergy are dying. We are doomed. __________________ --- Better to be slapped with the Truth than kissed with a lie--------- Russian Proverb Hey, Visit my wife's site and buy yourself some spiffy T shirts! http://www.catholic-threads.com/   #184   Jul 26, '16, 10:34 pm Hoosier Daddy Forum Master   Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 12,162 Religion: Still Catholic...... Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by HolyCrusader007 Rip to Rev. Jacques Hamel. Hamel is a martyr. Let me also add something very important. I believe , scratch that...I know God is watching to see how us Christians react to this story. I will say I wonder what this dead Priest would want us to say to the killer, maybe forgive the killer? What I also know is that ISIL and AQ want people like me to abhor Islam and all Muslims. And I refuse to give into ISILs division. I stand by the Syrian and Iraqi Muslims/Christians who are united against ISIL. Your post and your name. The most ironic thing I've read on these boards in a long time.... __________________ --- Better to be slapped with the Truth than kissed with a lie--------- Russian Proverb Hey, Visit my wife's site and buy yourself some spiffy T shirts! http://www.catholic-threads.com/   #185   Jul 26, '16, 11:03 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,839 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy This honestly was not shocking to me. In fact I can't believe it doesn't happen more. What shocks me and concerns me more than even a priest getting his head cut off is the utter lack of understanding from even Catholics about what we are facing. It shocks me the head on the sand mentality of some who refuse to see evil for what it is. Even when thier own clergy are dying. We are doomed. I know what you mean. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #186   Jul 26, '16, 11:19 pm Tony Micelli Junior Member   Join Date: February 27, 2013 Posts: 398 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] i don't understand why the catholic church has become so niave about islam and why the west let them in by the millions... so stupid. pope francis doesn't seem concerned about the islamic threat, like there is no connection between this religion and what is going on with all these mass killings.   #187   Jul 26, '16, 11:39 pm GraceSofia Regular Member Book Club Member   Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 1,928 Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz I meant the people at Mass. Now I can understand why people want to be able to conceal carry. I would hate for armed security to have to be brought in.....but with the world the way it is, they may have to be.... Soon every public place will have to have armed security. Of course the other option would be to stigmatise and ban this ideology. Quote: Originally Posted by Berumen I completely agree with you (The only place I am not armed is at Church or in the Doctors office). Unfortunately, my diocese in Texas has decided to ban LTC holders from carrying at church. I expect to hear of an attack then soon. Quote: Originally Posted by Geist The "religion of peace" strikes again. You Europeans needs to solve this. Now. Unless you Americans halt certain types of immigration, you will have the same problem soon. You are doing exactly what Europe has done, just at a bit slower rate. Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Here it is. https://georgiabulletin.org/news/201...ch-facilities/ It's a good idea. Guns have no place in the Sanctuary. Talk about defiling the Lord's house. Very foolish. I expect we will be hearing about an attack in Georgia soon. Quote: Originally Posted by zamyrabyrd The former melting pot mentality of absorbing immigrants into the US demanded proficiency in English and pledge of allegiance. Underlying all this was a tacit acceptance of Judeo-Christian values at its basis. Sorry, but anything else, in particular, Sharia, is in direct opposition to them. Europe didn't want to be proud of its culture and heritage, thought it is not important anymore and so now, is reaping the whirlwind. Some Brits finally got the message and have the courage to admit publicly that England is a Christian country. But they may be too small a minority to have any affect. Europe is totally confused. With the destruction of the family, the last bastion of freedom and preservation of values, thanks to the acceptance of same-sex marriage and just about any other arrangement calling itself "family", mixed in with abortion and euthanasia, totally against Church teaching and Orthodox Judaism, the pillars of this particular civilization have been pulverized. The point is if there were some real opposition or push back, people understanding the need and importance for preserving their identity and culture, so much of radical Islam would have not felt so brazen and empowered. I don't see Americans in general being proud of their heritage, either, though. Some, but not enough. Lots of appeasement of Muslims going on. Most Brits keep quiet, but they voted with their feet-- that was why Brexit happened. Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy This honestly was not shocking to me. In fact I can't believe it doesn't happen more. What shocks me and concerns me more than even a priest getting his head cut off is the utter lack of understanding from even Catholics about what we are facing. It shocks me the head on the sand mentality of some who refuse to see evil for what it is. Even when thier own clergy are dying. We are doomed. I know... I am just shaking my head here --- Christians are now being martyred in the West, and if that doesn't wake up people, I don't know what will.   #188   Jul 27, '16, 12:12 am Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,329 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Tony Micelli i don't understand why the catholic church has become so niave about islam and why the west let them in by the millions... so stupid. pope francis doesn't seem concerned about the islamic threat, like there is no connection between this religion and what is going on with all these mass killings. And what would Pope-Francis-being-concerned-about-the-Islamic-threat look like, in your opinion? Should he condemn Islam? Should he publicly demand all national leaders denounce Islam and makes its practice illegal? Should he declare a holy war? Should he offer a plenary indulgence to anyone who kills a terrorist? What exactly are you hoping for? Yikes! Last I checked, Pope Francis was the head of the Church, not a politician. Just my two cents... __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #189   Jul 27, '16, 12:18 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,298 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle And what would Pope-Francis-being-concerned-about-the-Islamic-threat look like, in your opinion? Should he condemn Islam? Should he publicly demand all national leaders denounce Islam and makes its practice illegal? Should he declare a holy war? Should he offer a plenary indulgence to anyone who kills a terrorist? What exactly are you hoping for? Yikes! Last I checked, Pope Francis was the head of the Church, not a politician. Just my two cents... Praise God that Christ did NOT come to create a democracy! I don't agree that "we are doomed" or that parishes in dioceses that discourage guns are necessarily going to get hit, however, we were overdue for a reminder that the "old normal" for the Church is not cozy coexistence, but persecution. ICXC NIKA   #190   Jul 27, '16, 1:12 am zamyrabyrd Regular Member   Join Date: September 25, 2014 Posts: 1,073 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by GraceSofia Unless you Americans halt certain types of immigration, you will have the same problem soon. You are doing exactly what Europe has done, just at a bit slower rate... I don't see Americans in general being proud of their heritage, either, though. Some, but not enough. Lots of appeasement of Muslims going on. Most Brits keep quiet, but they voted with their feet-- that was why Brexit happened. Voting, indeed! Donald Trump's campaign is not based on appeasement at all and may represent a last ditch hope before we all sink in the Titanic.   #191   Jul 27, '16, 2:04 am fin Greeter Prayer Warrior   Join Date: January 14, 2006 Posts: 2,667 Religion: proud to be a RIGID Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] THIS. I would upvote this a thousand times if I could. Apart from the terrorism, there's a HUGE problem with many in the hierarchy. Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy This honestly was not shocking to me. In fact I can't believe it doesn't happen more. What shocks me and concerns me more than even a priest getting his head cut off is the utter lack of understanding from even Catholics about what we are facing. It shocks me the head on the sand mentality of some who refuse to see evil for what it is. Even when thier own clergy are dying. We are doomed. __________________ Join my group, Praying for our Future Spouse! Pray for the holy souls in purgatory daily Pray for the dying, especially those dying unprepared All are born with their own originality, but many die as photocopies. - Carlo Acutis   #192   Jul 27, '16, 4:06 am Paganus Regular Member   Join Date: October 12, 2006 Posts: 630 Religion: Rigid Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Beautiful The minority of people who saw this coming sounded plenty of alarms and were largely ignored. Hopefully the politically correct will now understand that it is difficult to be politically correct and fight for social justice if they are dead. Given all that is obvious...in what manner must a Christian fight for social justice? This is a difficult question for most to answer. What does Jesus say? Jesus says (in Matthew 28): [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Are Moslems learning about Jesus and His Church in France? If not, what are they learning from their fellow French citizens? This is not a political problem and political solutions will fail.   #193   Jul 27, '16, 4:14 am Paganus Regular Member   Join Date: October 12, 2006 Posts: 630 Religion: Rigid Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Michael Mayo This seems so medieval, a martyr at the hands of the "Saracens". Rumors that the Dark Ages have ended have been greatly exaggerated. However, I count it as a great privilege that we are able to be among the first to pray for the intercession of this martyr of the Faith, Pere Jacques Hamel.   #194   Jul 27, '16, 4:16 am DoGodsBidding Forum Master Prayer Warrior   Join Date: March 25, 2007 Posts: 12,436 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by mlz As Tertullian would say and we pray "that the blood of the martyrs are the seed of Christians". May our dear priest brother pray for us all as he was a martyr for the Christian faith. mlz Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Glory Be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. __________________ As each one has received a gift, use it to serve one another as good stewards of God's varied grace. 1 Peter 4:10   #195   Jul 27, '16, 4:28 am Rosebud77 Veteran Member   Join Date: February 7, 2013 Posts: 10,030 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy This honestly was not shocking to me. In fact I can't believe it doesn't happen more. What shocks me and concerns me more than even a priest getting his head cut off is the utter lack of understanding from even Catholics about what we are facing. It shocks me the head on the sand mentality of some who refuse to see evil for what it is. Even when thier own clergy are dying. We are doomed. I do not agree with your last sentence but am relieved that someone is speaking sense and reality; thank you. The last week or so has been an epiphany for me, here in Ireland, seeing Europe engulfed in terrorist horror and learning what my advisers have been gently trying to make me aware o this last while... Nice, Germany. And now this open and direct attack on Christianity, for that is what this is. Germany was wrong and naive to take in so many unmonitored refugees and the price is being paid now and yes we have to face this in all its horror and defend our very lives . These are implacable men. There is no reasoning with them and no pacifism will avail. This is terrorism and sheer war on Christians and countries who are of any faith. Please God it does no accelerate and that our police forces and armed forces are able to stem this tide for that it what it means now. Please pray for them. They need and deserve it. Sorry; am ill abed and all I can do is pray and "Keep the home fires burning" as we were taught in England in th elast war. Make sure all I know an dcare for are safe and reassured while not playing down the terrible reality./ Yes this is something my loved ones working in India face every day but this is new to us.. Maybe Ireland because of the religious wars here will fare better.      Jul 27, '16, 4:31 am Rosebud77 Veteran Member   Join Date: February 7, 2013 Posts: 10,030 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Paganus Jesus says (in Matthew 28): [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Are Moslems learning about Jesus and His Church in France? If not, what are they learning from their fellow French citizens? This is not a political problem and political solutions will fail. Given the history of the Crusades this is the most naive and dangerous approach yet. And given so much else in the history of the church   #197   Jul 27, '16, 4:42 am Beautiful Senior Member   Join Date: June 13, 2007 Posts: 6,897 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Paganus Jesus says (in Matthew 28): [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Are Moslems learning about Jesus and His Church in France? If not, what are they learning from their fellow French citizens? This is not a political problem and political solutions will fail. From the Magnificat Year of Mercy Companion July 26 Saint Dominic was a model of contemplative man engaged in active ministry. Blessed Fra Angelico's image in St. Mark's in Venice best captures the source of Dominic's strength : like Mary Magdalene, the Saint clings to the rough hewn wood at the feet of the crucified Lord. From such love sprang the Dominicans, the mendicant preachers, who went forth in the spirit of their founder to set the medieval world on fire.   #198   Jul 27, '16, 4:44 am exnihilo Regular Member   Join Date: June 13, 2011 Posts: 4,733 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Here it is. https://georgiabulletin.org/news/201...ch-facilities/ It's a good idea. Guns have no place in the Sanctuary. Talk about defiling the Lord's house. It is interesting that this ban is unequally applied. It exempts agents of the state and security employees. It exempts swords if carried by certain people. I think bans like these aren't a good idea but if the reason is guns have no place in a church why wouldn't that be applied across the board? I consider a gun to be a tool. In itself it is neither good nor bad. Even St. Peter carried a sword and actually used it. __________________ We fear men so much, because we fear God so little. One fear cures another. When man's terror scares you, turn your thoughts to the wrath of God. — GK Chesterton   #199   Jul 27, '16, 5:09 am St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,501 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Paganus Jesus says (in Matthew 28): [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Are Moslems learning about Jesus and His Church in France? If not, what are they learning from their fellow French citizens? This is not a political problem and political solutions will fail. Christ also told the Apostles to shake to dust of the town's which refused to listen to them from their sandals, no? ETA: which is not to say we should stop praying for their conversion... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #200   Jul 27, '16, 5:17 am Lion IRC Regular Member   Join Date: April 1, 2013 Posts: 1,953 Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] So sad to hear Fr Paul at Mass today talking about this horrible event. 😢   #201   Jul 27, '16, 6:59 am OneSheep Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2011 Posts: 3,811 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Good Morning Darryl, Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl1958 Pope Benedict XVI talked about mutual respect in terms of reciprocity. I found it! Benedict cited John Paul II's statement that ''Respect and dialogue require reciprocity in all spheres,'' particularly religious freedom, a major issue for the Vatican in Saudi Arabia and other countries where non-Muslims cannot worship openly. http://www.therevival.co.uk/forum/general/1827 I agree, Darryl, there is a place for a "negotiated" mutual respect in terms of religious tolerance between and within nations. The fact is, however, that true respect cannot be negotiated. Like forgiveness, it has to come from the heart. Jesus asks us to forgive our enemies. It is forgiveness that is going to solve these ongoing problems. Quote: One-sided apology tours are not the way to go. When it comes to the relationship with God, well then, what does he have to apologize for, but every other group of people need to understand that nobody walks through this life without leaving footprints. Even myths about Mary walking through her childhood without her feet touching the ground are not scripture, but just myths. Jesus asks us to forgive, Darryl. There were no conditions set, remember? Quote: It is good that Ben's predecessor, St. Jon Paul II gave the apology on behalf of all Catholics to those of other faith traditions that Catholics have stepped on along the way. Initiating discussion through repentance is a very Catholic tradition. But it is not as if Catholics also do not have tread marks all over their backs too in this long history between ourselves and other religionists. Mutual respect includes self-respect, and that means not making oneself into a doormat. Catholic immigration policy is based on reciprocity. It involves not only being gracious hosts, but includes the expectation of gracious guests as well. Love is a relationship. If it is not a two way street, than it isn't love. Actually Jesus said this: New International Version If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Matthew 5:46 Forgiveness is a matter between people and between an individual and God. Jesus does not make love or forgiveness a matter involving reciprocity. By our nature, our hearts soften towards those we forgive, and we reap what we sow. So, the choice is ours. When we have gotten over our anger and have done what we can to control the situation, there is a time to forgive. We can either wait until the extremists apologize, which will not likely occur, and hold onto our grudges forever, or we can take the steps to forgive, and regain a holiness that was lost when we clung to anger and resentment. Jesus, of course, calls us to the latter. Father, please be with those who are dealing with the tragic loss of their loved ones. And for the people of the parish and all of France suffering grief, anger, resentment please be with them, and give them a means to greater security. Console them, and all of us who share in their sorrow, anger, and grief. Father, I ask that you also give care to our enemies. For those who grieve the loss of the two men who died, give them comfort also, be with them and help them, and us, to forgive those we hold anything against. We know that you forgive those who harm us, they do not know what they are doing. We ask for your help and guidance in the process of forgiving our enemies, please guide our enemies in forgiving us. Amen __________________ Pope Francis Verified account ‏@Pontifex God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us. Last edited by OneSheep; Jul 27, '16 at 7:15 am.   #202   Jul 27, '16, 7:03 am zz912 Senior Member   Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 7,484 Religion: Catholic Since 4/3/10 Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by qui est ce Only 5 people attended mass? Even our 6:30 AM mass has more. The French have abandoned their Catholic birthright and faith. Fruits of the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.   #203   Jul 27, '16, 7:07 am GraceSofia Regular Member Book Club Member   Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 1,928 Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by OneSheep I found it! We can either wait until the extremists apologize, which will not likely occur, and hold onto our grudges forever, or we can take the steps to forgive, and regain a holiness that was lost when we clung to anger and resentment. This isn't a matter of apologies and grudges. It's a matter of protecting our families and countries. Steps can be taken to defend ourselves that have nothing to do with grudges.   #204   Jul 27, '16, 7:09 am St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,501 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by OneSheep Good Morning Darryl, I found it! Benedict cited John Paul II's statement that ''Respect and dialogue require reciprocity in all spheres,'' particularly religious freedom, a major issue for the Vatican in Saudi Arabia and other countries where non-Muslims cannot worship openly. http://www.therevival.co.uk/forum/general/1827 I agree, Darryl, there is a place for a "negotiated" mutual respect in terms of religious tolerance between and within nations. The fact is, however, that true respect cannot be negotiated. Like forgiveness, it has to come from the heart. Jesus asks us to forgive our enemies. It is forgiveness that is going to solve these ongoing problems. Jesus asks us to forgive, Darryl. There were no conditions set, remember? Actually Jesus said this: New International Version If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Matthew 5:46 Forgiveness is a matter between people and between an individual and God. Jesus does not make love or forgiveness a matter involving reciprocity. By our nature, our hearts soften towards those we forgive, and we reap what we sow. So, the choice is ours. When we have gotten over our anger and have done what we can to control the situation, there is a time to forgive. We can either wait until the extremists apologize, which will not likely occur, and hold onto our grudges forever, or we can take the steps to forgive, and regain a holiness that was lost when we clung to anger and resentment. Jesus, of course, calls us to the latter. A woman can forgive the man who attacked her, while still doing what she can to ensure he is jailed. Why do you and others on this thread think it necessary to reiterate very basic Catholic teaching here? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #205   Jul 27, '16, 7:14 am zz912 Senior Member   Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 7,484 Religion: Catholic Since 4/3/10 Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy Nothing like advertising you have an unarmed target rich environment. Almost seems the opposite of what a shepherd would do. Shepherds carry weapons to protect their flocks from wolves and other predators.....   #206   Jul 27, '16, 7:19 am OneSheep Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2011 Posts: 3,811 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by GraceSofia This isn't a matter of apologies and grudges. It's a matter of protecting our families and countries. Steps can be taken to defend ourselves that have nothing to do with grudges. Yes, steps can and should be taken to defend, but we can also make offensive moves. Forgiveness is an offensive move, it is a decision to love our enemies, and it is the greatest act of mercy. It cannot be forced, though. We have to be ready. And when we do, we inspire forgiveness. __________________ Pope Francis Verified account ‏@Pontifex God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us.   #207   Jul 27, '16, 7:58 am Geist Banned   Join Date: January 11, 2012 Posts: 1,329 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Islamist knifemen chanting 'Allahu Akbar' behead French priest, 86, and leave nun fighting for her life after storming Mass Quote: Originally Posted by pianistclare Priests are not permitted to own guns. Our Archbishop has forbidden us to bring any guns to any Archdiocesan property. ESPECIALLY the Parishes. Its called concealed carry for a reason.   #208   Jul 27, '16, 8:14 am Seamus L Senior Member   Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,087 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] In 1844 Anti-Catholic violence was on the rise in America. I think it may have been Archbishop Kenrick of Philadelphia who took a very pacificistic stance. 2 churches in Philadelphia were burned to the ground and several people were killed. In New York City Archbishop John Hughes promised all out war if Catholic churches were attacked. Needless to say, things went alot more peaceful in NY.   #209   Jul 27, '16, 8:17 am Geist Banned   Join Date: January 11, 2012 Posts: 1,329 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - George S. Patton I think we can safely swap a word or two and remind ourselves we shouldn't be martyrs; we should make them be the martyrs.   #210   Jul 27, '16, 8:24 am Rosebud77 Veteran Member   Join Date: February 7, 2013 Posts: 10,030 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] My "take" on forgiveness, learned in a long hard school and with much agony of prayer when my very life had been compromised deliberately by someone in power, is this. If I am walking over a high bridge with you and you push me off, while I am recovering in hospital I may well forgive you... as Jesus bids us and through His grace. But be sure of this; there is no way I will ever, ever cross a bridge with you again. NO WAY. We forgive for our own peace. If we do not, only we suffer.     Jul 27, '16, 8:25 am tbcrawford Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 206,028 Religion: catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Eternal God , in whom mercy is endless, and the treasury of compassion inexhastible , look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us , that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent , but with great confidence , submit ourselves to Your Holy Will , which is love and mercy itself . Amen Memorare (Prayer to Our Lady) Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession, was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto you, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. To you do I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in your mercy, hear and answer me. Amen __________________ "Whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers and sisters you do unto me"   #212   Jul 27, '16, 8:48 am GraceSofia Regular Member Book Club Member   Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 1,928 Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L In 1844 Anti-Catholic violence was on the rise in America. I think it may have been Archbishop Kenrick of Philadelphia who took a very pacificistic stance. 2 churches in Philadelphia were burned to the ground and several people were killed. In New York City Archbishop John Hughes promised all out war if Catholic churches were attacked. Needless to say, things went alot more peaceful in NY. Interesting. I didn't know that. And we should all have learned from WWII that appeasement always makes bullies worse. Quote: Originally Posted by Geist "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - George S. Patton I think we can safely swap a word or two and remind ourselves we shouldn't be martyrs; we should make them be the martyrs. Quote: Originally Posted by Rosebud77 If I am walking over a high bridge with you and you push me off, while I am recovering in hospital I may well forgive you... as Jesus bids us and through His grace. But be sure of this; there is no way I will ever, ever cross a bridge with you again. NO WAY. And our elitist leaders keep taking us across the same old bridges with the same old results.   #213   Jul 27, '16, 8:53 am OneSheep Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2011 Posts: 3,811 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Rosebud77 My "take" on forgiveness, learned in a long hard school and with much agony of prayer when my very life had been compromised deliberately by someone in power, is this. If I am walking over a high bridge with you and you push me off, while I am recovering in hospital I may well forgive you... as Jesus bids us and through His grace. But be sure of this; there is no way I will ever, ever cross a bridge with you again. NO WAY. We forgive for our own peace. If we do not, only we suffer. Hi Rosebud, I agree, and forgiveness takes time. We can certainly "will" it, but there is a process to go through, including allowing ourselves to be very angry and resentful. Like you said, forgiveness does not mean that we are to trust someone who cannot be trusted. Trust, also, takes time to recover and may never during a lifetime. What I am seeing on this thread are valid and important questions, such as "how do we protect ourselves?" and "do you share my anger?". I am thinking that in the Year of Mercy (not that mercy is to be limited to a year! ) it would be good to end this thread by addressing a long-term solution, as demonstrated by Jesus. Forgiveness is a long-term solution, a solution that builds the Kingdom. And building the Kingdom includes prayer for all people involved in the tragedy. Do you agree? __________________ Pope Francis Verified account ‏@Pontifex God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us.   #214   Jul 27, '16, 9:00 am JimG Forum Elder   Join Date: May 23, 2004 Posts: 28,272 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] "The Normandy tragedy and the martyrdom of Fr. Hamel is only one of a horrifying string of recent bloodbaths. This attack, though, is somehow more horrifying than the indiscriminate death of 84 people under the wheels of a truck in Nice. It is more horrifying because it is more symbolic. Instead of mass murder, it was murder at Mass. The war against the West is a war of religion. It is a war between Islam and Christianity." Priest Martyrdom a Warning to the West   #215   Jul 27, '16, 9:17 am Crusaderbear Senior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: July 27, 2015 Posts: 13,600 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Don't we have a duty to those yet to be victimized by the brutality of extremism,? These extreme hate groups must be eliminated to save the future!   #216   Jul 27, '16, 9:20 am OneSheep Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2011 Posts: 3,811 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by JimG "The Normandy tragedy and the martyrdom of Fr. Hamel is only one of a horrifying string of recent bloodbaths. This attack, though, is somehow more horrifying than the indiscriminate death of 84 people under the wheels of a truck in Nice. It is more horrifying because it is more symbolic. Instead of mass murder, it was murder at Mass. The war against the West is a war of religion. It is a war between Islam and Christianity." Priest Martyrdom a Warning to the West Hi Jim, Well, I am not at war, and the Church is not at war, right? Does the author intend to instill or flame rage, or is he a voice for mercy and forgiveness? My guess is that he shares our anger, and that is the context of his words. He is feeling angry and resentful, probably, and that is our normal, natural reaction to atrocities. In time, he too will see that there comes a time to forgive, though this does not preclude the need to protect ourselves. Let's continue to pray for all involved. __________________ Pope Francis Verified account ‏@Pontifex God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us.   #217   Jul 27, '16, 9:23 am qui est ce Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: July 5, 2005 Posts: 13,285 Religion: Catholic Christian Latin Rite Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Paganus Jesus says (in Matthew 28): [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Are Moslems learning about Jesus and His Church in France? If not, what are they learning from their fellow French citizens? This is not a political problem and political solutions will fail. This is a great post, and something I have been thinking about for a long time. Europe is very secular, hence my remark about so few people being at mass that day. I have heard there are many Muslims converting to Christianity in Europe. There are a few theories of why this is happening, one being that they would have been killed in their native countries for apostasy. I'm wondering if God isn't using this to bring us back to him. I see people lighting candles and holding prayer vigils at the site of the attacks. __________________ Christine   #218   Jul 27, '16, 9:30 am OneSheep Regular Member   Join Date: September 6, 2011 Posts: 3,811 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Crusaderbear Don't we have a duty to those yet to be victimized by the brutality of extremism,? These extreme hate groups must be eliminated to save the future! Hi Bear, I share your anger, and I share your desire to punish, but no, we are not called to eliminate people who have hate. We are all capable of hate, and we all hate at times, right? The "Islamic state" is also rationalizing the elimination of those who hate them, in order to "save the future". They reap revenge and persecution. They reap murder. Do we go with our automatic response to take revenge, or do we return with mercy? Of course, I am not talking about letting them kill us or refraining from self-protection. __________________ Pope Francis Verified account ‏@Pontifex God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us.   #219   Jul 27, '16, 9:33 am Padres1969 Regular Member   Join Date: October 28, 2015 Posts: 5,291 Religion: Episcopalian Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by JimG "The Normandy tragedy and the martyrdom of Fr. Hamel is only one of a horrifying string of recent bloodbaths. This attack, though, is somehow more horrifying than the indiscriminate death of 84 people under the wheels of a truck in Nice. It is more horrifying because it is more symbolic. Instead of mass murder, it was murder at Mass. The war against the West is a war of religion. It is a war between Islam and Christianity." Priest Martyrdom a Warning to the West Pope Francis disagrees with you. https://cruxnow.com/world-youth-day-...war-religions/   #220   Jul 27, '16, 9:37 am DeusExMachina Junior Member   Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 368 Religion: Anglican (Episcopal Church) Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] This is horrific. Maybe now the French government will push for reforming the EU's insane open borders policy   #221   Jul 27, '16, 9:39 am JimG Forum Elder   Join Date: May 23, 2004 Posts: 28,272 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by OneSheep Hi Jim, Well, I am not at war, and the Church is not at war, right? Does the author intend to instill or flame rage, or is he a voice for mercy and forgiveness? My guess is that he shares our anger, and that is the context of his words. He is feeling angry and resentful, probably, and that is our normal, natural reaction to atrocities. In time, he too will see that there comes a time to forgive, though this does not preclude the need to protect ourselves. Let's continue to pray for all involved. Well, ISIS is at war. If no one else is at war to oppose them, the outcome is predictable: surrender and submission, which is their objective. Quoting again from the linked article: “There can be no confidence in comatose lethargy, contentious communities, concentrated materialism, or collective atheism. In the wake of the Nice attack, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls alarmingly said that France had better get used to living with terror, and that is the only conclusion for a civilization that has surrendered, and surrendered to a falsehood posing as the truth—and forcing itself upon others as the truth.” No, the West does not have to learn to live with terror, as the French prime minister said. One only has to submit, and there will be peace. Forgiveness of our enemies does not absolve us of the obligation to obtain victory over them.   #222   Jul 27, '16, 10:14 am HolyCrusader007 Junior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 459 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy Your post and your name. The most ironic thing I've read on these boards in a long time.... During the Crusades Richard the Lionheart and Saladin respected each other. Im trying to follow in the footsteps of Crusaders such as the Lionheart. I urge folks to realize the truth that ISIL not the only Muslim group, but there are for example groups of Syrian Christians and Muslims teaming up to eliminate ISIL from Syria. __________________ They had better die courageously in the field, than to be butchered in their houses -Fr John Murphy Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/m...niv/1John.3.15   #223   Jul 27, '16, 10:55 am St Francis Forum Elder   Join Date: August 11, 2004 Posts: 16,501 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by HolyCrusader007 During the Crusades Richard the Lionheart and Saladin respected each other. Im trying to follow in the footsteps of Crusaders such as the Lionhearted. Saladin was respected because of his personal qualities and as an exceptional warrior. But they still fought against him. Quote: I urge folks to realize the truth that ISIL not the only Muslim group, but there are for example groups of Syrian Christians and Muslims teaming up to eliminate ISIL from Syria. English has an interesting feature of using adjectives to differentiate between individual items within categories, i.e.: She wants the blue book, not the red book. As a result, that people speak about radical Islamic terrorists and the like shows that they are aware of the other groups of Moslems and are specifying the small sub-set of which they are speaking. Syrian Christians, btw, are not Moslems... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." CS Lewis–God in the Dock, 1948   #224   Jul 27, '16, 11:01 am tomarin Senior Member   Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 7,538 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Originally Posted by St Francis Saladin was respected because of his personal qualities and as an exceptional warrior. But they still fought against him. What were Saladin's admirable personal qualities? Just curious as I had the impression (from what source I don't remember) that he was pretty ruthless. __________________ If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137   #225   Jul 27, '16, 11:05 am GEddie Forum Elder Book Club Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 89,298 Religion: Catholic Re: French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC] Quote: Saladin was respected because of his personal qualities and as an exceptional warrior. But they still fought against him. Sure, in a war situation it is easy to respect and even admire somebody while still trying to kill them. That really says nothing. ICXC NIKA