Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Still its alarming the way the government views addicts I'll tell you.
What you have is the government competing with the black market. Vice
and violence still and the government gets its cut of the pie? Like good
addicts what will you loyally pay for this daily? Does insurance cover
it? Are state pot buyers and black market buyers treated different
legally? Decriminalize and then you don't have to legalize. Its a weed, a
weed. 
Jun 29, '16, 4:44 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmachine
Is it a Christian's duty to fight against the legal sale of alcohol then?
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The difference is that our LORD himself used alcohol. To oppose it therefore is to try to improve upon HIM (never a good idea).
ICXC NIKA
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Jun 29, '16, 4:44 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
A way for the government to exert social control over a stoned population as they take away our Constitutional rights.
Stay away from both drugs and alcohol because both are poisons and bad for your health and mind.
The breweries, the wineries and the marijuana growers just want to take your money and put it in their pockets.
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Jun 29, '16, 4:50 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Yes, its nefarious and the government and state explicitly know what
they are doing and thats profiting off your misery. Course like addicts
you would argue "But I like what I do". I know you do.  And so how much will you pay for a Klondike bar?
I don't blame the people with issues, but the government.
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Jun 29, '16, 4:51 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwyer
A way for the government to exert social control over a stoned population as they take away our Constitutional rights.
Stay away from both drugs and alcohol because both are poisons and bad for your health and mind.
The breweries, the wineries and the marijuana growers just want to take your money and put it in their pockets.
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How is that different from any business? They all want to take
your money and provide you a good or service in return (most of which
you don't actually need). That's capitalism.
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Jun 29, '16, 4:55 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres1969
How is that different from any business?
They all want to take your money and provide you a good or service in
return (most of which you don't actually need). That's capitalism.
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Most goods and services even unneeded, do not create an increasing
dependence (note, I did not say "addiction"), nor impair the human
mind.
ICXC NIKA
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Jun 29, '16, 5:06 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Aside from federal to state incredible law unbalance they micromanage it
and sell it themselves on a state level. Its a complete moral ethical
and legal disaster.
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Jun 29, '16, 5:25 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Like selling dope is, two bags please, for a generous fee, make
your world what you want it to be. A conscience tease to be sure, the
more you feed on it the more you think you need it and while your
playing fantasy you are losing touch with reality
No-one told you just say no?  I know it was that conscience tease the temptation?
Just saying.
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Jun 29, '16, 6:15 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
I think people who talk about how mild altering weed is while leaving alcohol legal must not have ever used it.
I do not use it anymore, but I think it should be treated as alcohol. It
is certainly less mind altering than alcohol. Both can be used to be
mind altering, and both can be used in moderation.
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Jun 29, '16, 6:21 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
remember this when saying you want this legalized: Our bodies are
temples of the holy spirit. We should not mess them up with recreational
drugs or excessive use of tobacco or alcohol (when I say excessive, I
mean getting drunk all the time).
Jesus drank wine, but not Whiskey or any HARD liquor.
I do not want Marijuana or any other similar drug legalized, EVER.
Be a good role model - DO NOT do hard drugs!
Does Marijuana bring you closer to Christ? Does getting high give you a closer relationship with HIM?
__________________
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"More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason."
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Who will speak for those who have no voice?
Life.....what a beautiful choice!
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Jun 29, '16, 7:29 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil19034
Absolutely not. Legalized weed would be another nail in the coffin of this nation.
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How so? We allow people to drink alcohol and it hasn't sunk the nation.
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Jun 29, '16, 10:30 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamewell45
How so? We allow people to drink alcohol and it hasn't sunk the nation.
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When I was in college, our fraternity used to have a saying: alcohol promotes brotherhood, weed distroys brotherhood.
While both were illegal for most of us under 21, there was some logic to this:
Legal or not, non-smokers don't want to be in a room filled with smoke;
tobacco or weed. Smoking doesn't bring people together, people walk away
from the group to smoke. Even at at illegal party filled with underaged
kids, pot is often smoked in a seperate room, away from the rest of the
party goers.
Unless someone is an alcoholic (or there is a lot of binge drinking
going on) alcohol, in itself, doesn't break up fellowship. You can have a
successful parish fellowship event with alcohol (Theology on Tap, for
example) but you will never have a successful weed smoking parish
fellowship program (even if weed was 100% legal), just like you don't
have cigarette socials. Granted some parishes might have a cigar night,
but that is typically just men, so it doesn't bring the whole community
together.
Plus there is the whole notion of 2nd hand smoke...
I find it very interesting that there is such a push to legalize weed at
the same time there is a push to rid ourselves of cigarettes. I don't
care what you are burning, smoke in your lungs (even a little) is not
healthy.
On the other hand a glass of wine a day is considered to be healthy for you.
God Bless
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Jun 29, '16, 10:49 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
I'd love to see marijuana legalized at the national level, because of my husband.
He has arthritis all over his body, and is in constant pain. He's on the
highest allowable dosage of fentanyl and hydrocodone, but it just takes
the edge off. A pain pump would help a lot, but we can't afford the 20%
Medicare won't cover, and we can't afford supplemental insurance
either.
For some reason, marijuana helps him more than the medicines he's on,
and unlike those, it's not addictive. If he could use marijuana instead
of the narcotics, maybe, just maybe, he could go back to work again,
which he would dearly love to do.
And yes, it likely would bring him closer to God because then hopefully
he would be physically able to attend church with me sometimes. That
would be so wonderful.
I pray that marijuana will be legalized while we're both still here to enjoy each other.
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Jun 29, '16, 11:15 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by billsannie
I'd love to see marijuana legalized at the national level, because of my husband.
He has arthritis all over his body, and is in constant pain. He's on the
highest allowable dosage of fentanyl and hydrocodone, but it just takes
the edge off. A pain pump would help a lot, but we can't afford the 20%
Medicare won't cover, and we can't afford supplemental insurance
either.
For some reason, marijuana helps him more than the medicines he's on,
and unlike those, it's not addictive. If he could use marijuana instead
of the narcotics, maybe, just maybe, he could go back to work again,
which he would dearly love to do.
And yes, it likely would bring him closer to God because then hopefully
he would be physically able to attend church with me sometimes. That
would be so wonderful.
I pray that marijuana will be legalized while we're both still here to enjoy each other.
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NOTE: medical marijuana and recreational marijuana are not the same thing. Most of us here are talking about recreational.
God Bless
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Jun 30, '16, 3:11 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: March 30, 2010
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by billsannie
I'd love to see marijuana legalized at the national level, because of my husband.
He has arthritis all over his body, and is in constant pain. He's on the
highest allowable dosage of fentanyl and hydrocodone, but it just takes
the edge off. A pain pump would help a lot, but we can't afford the 20%
Medicare won't cover, and we can't afford supplemental insurance
either.
For some reason, marijuana helps him more than the medicines he's on,
and unlike those, it's not addictive. If he could use marijuana instead
of the narcotics, maybe, just maybe, he could go back to work again,
which he would dearly love to do.
And yes, it likely would bring him closer to God because then hopefully
he would be physically able to attend church with me sometimes. That
would be so wonderful.
I pray that marijuana will be legalized while we're both still here to enjoy each other.
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May help its useful for pain with some people.
It is legal for medical use in half the US states. But insurance doesn't
cover it as its not FDA approved, further as I was saying its ranked as
a Schedule I drug. So while they will sell you small amounts and
regulated if you transport it across state lines, send it in the mail
you'll be arrested and prosecuted.
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Jun 30, '16, 3:14 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil19034
When I was in college, our fraternity used to have a saying: alcohol promotes brotherhood, weed distroys brotherhood.
While both were illegal for most of us under 21, there was some logic to this:
Legal or not, non-smokers don't want to be in a room filled with smoke;
tobacco or weed. Smoking doesn't bring people together, people walk away
from the group to smoke. Even at at illegal party filled with underaged
kids, pot is often smoked in a seperate room, away from the rest of the
party goers.
Unless someone is an alcoholic (or there is a lot of binge drinking
going on) alcohol, in itself, doesn't break up fellowship. You can have a
successful parish fellowship event with alcohol (Theology on Tap, for
example) but you will never have a successful weed smoking parish
fellowship program (even if weed was 100% legal), just like you don't
have cigarette socials. Granted some parishes might have a cigar night,
but that is typically just men, so it doesn't bring the whole community
together.
Plus there is the whole notion of 2nd hand smoke...
I find it very interesting that there is such a push to legalize weed at
the same time there is a push to rid ourselves of cigarettes. I don't
care what you are burning, smoke in your lungs (even a little) is not
healthy.
On the other hand a glass of wine a day is considered to be healthy for you.
God Bless
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You know I never thought it about this way, but I think your right.
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Jun 30, '16, 5:09 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmachine
Is it a Christian's duty to fight against the legal sale of alcohol then?
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I could definitely see christians duty to fight against cigarette
sales, alcohol is a tough one, because so many people use it
successfully in moderation, plus they already tried prohibition and it
didnt work so well, but then again, you think they would take that into
consideration, since the drug laws are basically drug prohibition, so
maybe they have not learned their lesson about banning products.
Cigarettes though, have ZERO benefits to anyone, they are proven to be
deadly, they are not even seen as something to use in a social setting
anymore, yet the cigarette companies still go about advertising and
trying to sell as much as they can?! Why is it that NO ONE is actively
calling them to be banned totally or at least regulated out of
existence?
Id also like to hear how law enforcement feels about a ban on
cigarettes, as they seem to be one of the most vocal groups about other
drugs, and the general health and safety of the public, so surely one
that kills as many as cigarettes, they probably have an opinion.
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Jun 30, '16, 5:17 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
drug laws are basically drug prohibition, so maybe they have not learned their lesson about banning products.
Cigarettes though, have ZERO benefits to anyone, they are proven to be deadly,
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Perhaps you have a point, so since overdose surpassed gun and vehicle accidents we should legalise heroin for recreational use? 
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Jun 30, '16, 5:27 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
Perhaps you have a point, so since overdose surpassed gun and vehicle accidents we should legalise heroin for recreational use? |
Honestly, it would not make a difference, Heroin is so plentiful
and so readily available, just about anywhere you go these days, making
it legal would not change too much. ONe of the things I learned going
thru recovery, actually getting the drug is not a problem for anyone,
even though lawmakers continually pass very tough new laws on it almost
every 6 months!
It may lower the cost, but even that is doubtful, if addicts prove they
are willing to pay $120. per gram for it, theres not much reason to make
it cheaper.
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Jun 30, '16, 5:39 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
The reason we have a epidemic nationwide is because of the government
involvement in pain medication, people end up on more powerful and
unpredictable doses of street heroin. Its 10 dollars a bag opposed to 40
dollars an oxycontin 80. So in my estimation in sequence they land on
the $10 square seriously spiking these stats imho. Let alone the other
poison out here. Very similar paradigm to marijuana though. But look at
the consequence legally. I doubt you'll not get arrested being caught
with heroin.
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Jun 30, '16, 6:17 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
The reason we have a epidemic nationwide
is because of the government involvement in pain medication, people end
up on more powerful and unpredictable doses of street heroin. Its 10
dollars a bag opposed to 40 dollars an oxycontin 80. So in my estimation
in sequence they land on the $10 square seriously spiking these stats
imho. Let alone the other poison out here. Very similar paradigm to
marijuana though. But look at the consequence legally. I doubt you'll
not get arrested being caught with heroin.
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Well, the pharmaceutical industry has a lot to do with this imo.
I have always wondered why NO ONE in big pharma complained or tried to
legally fight when the Govt imposed very tough new prescribing rules on
the medical community back in 2012, opiate painkillers were a HUGE cash
cow for them, oxycodone alone was bringing in millions for them before
the new laws, they seemed to be totally fine with loosing nearly half
their sales?!
this would be like the alcohol industry not complaining if the Govt
suggested tough new laws on booze sales...Cmon, something not right with
this picture!
Whatever the motive, it is NOT about our health and safety.
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Jun 30, '16, 6:32 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle
Well, the pharmaceutical industry has a lot to do with this imo.
I have always wondered why NO ONE in big pharma complained or tried to
legally fight when the Govt imposed very tough new prescribing rules on
the medical community back in 2012, opiate painkillers were a HUGE cash
cow for them, oxycodone alone was bringing in millions for them before
the new laws, they seemed to be totally fine with loosing nearly half
their sales?!
this would be like the alcohol industry not complaining if the Govt
suggested tough new laws on booze sales...Cmon, something not right with
this picture!
Whatever the motive, it is NOT about our health and safety.
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Yes, but look at the bigger moral ethical and legal comparison
which is how we came to heroin. We promote the most deadly of all the
vices with alcohol and cigarettes with our own moral ethical legal
stance by by which we treat marijuana and heroin no different than
cocaine. In my estimation its the alcohol and cigarettes and cocaine
which are most deadly in comparison.
But your right its not at about health at all just not looking criminal
while they compete with criminals. Its also still illegal to bring but
very small amounts of cigarettes across state lines because of northern
taxing. Look at moonshine-illegal.
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Jun 30, '16, 8:07 am
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Regular Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
So the pot should be cheaper than that trash we also mistakenly legalized?
The real problem is the federal laws. You should able to buy seed and
grow your own like Tomatos. But the optics are while one will claim
harmless, better for pain and various ideas, the government still sees
it as it does cocaine. So its really about the money. |
No, the federal government regards it as worse than cocaine and methamphetamine as those happen to be "legitimate" uses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEddie
The difference is that our LORD himself used alcohol. To oppose it therefore is to try to improve upon HIM (never a good idea).
ICXC NIKA
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Not only did Jesus drink alcohol, he also turned water into wine at a party when they ran out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamewell45
How so? We allow people to drink alcohol and it hasn't sunk the nation.
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No, but Prohibition almost did.
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Jun 30, '16, 8:44 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: March 30, 2010
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
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No, the federal government regards it as worse than cocaine
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How so both are schedule one drugs yet the sentencing of cocaine is much worse than marijuana.
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Jun 30, '16, 9:00 am
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Regular Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEddie
Most goods and services even unneeded, do
not create an increasing dependence (note, I did not say "addiction"),
nor impair the human mind.
ICXC NIKA
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I don't know. Quite a few sold today do. Beer, wine, hard liquor,
cigarettes, cigars, chewing tobacco, vape equipment, coffee, tea, sodas,
energy drinks, chocolate, fatty foods, etc... all alter or impair the
human brain to some extent and all can create an increasing dependence.
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Jun 30, '16, 9:35 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
How so both are schedule one drugs yet the sentencing of cocaine is much worse than marijuana.
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Incorrect
Quote:
Schedule I
Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no
currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Schedule I
drugs are the most dangerous drugs of all the drug schedules with
potentially severe psychological or physical dependence. Some examples
of Schedule I drugs are:
heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote
Schedule II
Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a
high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe
psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered
dangerous. Some examples of Schedule II drugs are:
Combination products with less than 15 milligrams of hydrocodone per dosage unit (Vicodin), cocaine,
methamphetamine, methadone, hydromorphone (Dilaudid), meperidine
(Demerol), oxycodone (OxyContin), fentanyl, Dexedrine, Adderall, and
Ritalin
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DEA
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Jun 30, '16, 10:09 am
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Forum Elder
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joie de Vivre
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Half right but it simply doesn't change what I am saying..
Quote:
Schedule I
Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no
currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Schedule I
drugs are the most dangerous drugs of all the drug schedules with
potentially severe psychological or physical dependence. Some examples
of Schedule I drugs are:
heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana
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Marijuana has no medical use and heroin either. Certainly
incorrect in both cases and for sure the later and compared to minimal
medical use of cocaine. Further the sentence is quite different and
higher for possession and sales of heroin/cocaine as opposed to
marijuana. For example...
http://www.ctdefenselawyer.com/drug-sale/
Point still stands the most dangerous are the alcohol cigarettes and
cocaine. All virtually useless opposed to both marijuana and heroin. But
its really not about heath being the point but finance and control and
perceived influence on crime.
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Jun 30, '16, 3:49 pm
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Veteran Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
Half right but it simply doesn't change what I am saying..
Marijuana has no medical use and heroin either. Certainly incorrect in
both cases and for sure the later and compared to minimal medical use of
cocaine. Further the sentence is quite different and higher for
possession and sales of heroin/cocaine as opposed to marijuana. For
example...
http://www.ctdefenselawyer.com/drug-sale/
Point still stands the most dangerous are the alcohol cigarettes and
cocaine. All virtually useless opposed to both marijuana and heroin. But
its really not about heath being the point but finance and control and
perceived influence on crime. |
Heroin actually does have a medical use, its still used in some
countries I believe, as a strong painkiller. I know pharmaceutical grade
heroin is still produced by a few of the big companies too, although I
think it is only used for testing, comparisons and experiments, its not
used a painkiller in the US, but morphine is, which is about the exact
same thing anyway...(I had a pharmacist show me it one time, it was
clear as water, in a small vial).
I remember back in the mid 80s, to about early 90s, marijuana was
portrayed as the EVIL drug, just like how we view heroin and opiates
today, I went thru DARE at school, and if anyone had suggested one day
marijuana would be legal in the US, NO ONE back then would have believed
it, pot was really thought to be a bad thing in those days, there was a
huge campaign to keep kids off drugs, (mainly pot back then).
I think in about 20 yrs, heroin will go thru the same thing, it will not
be viewed as dangerous as it is right now, and/or more people will just
be acclimated to people using it recreationally, especially if they
cant get the abuse problem under control, back in the 80s, it was never
this bad with pot.
Last edited by mikekle; Jun 30, '16 at 3:59 pm.
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Jun 30, '16, 4:20 pm
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Forum Elder
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle
Heroin actually does have a medical use,
its still used in some countries I believe, as a strong painkiller. I
know pharmaceutical grade heroin is still produced by a few of the big
companies too, although I think it is only used for testing, comparisons
and experiments, its not used a painkiller in the US, but morphine is,
which is about the exact same thing anyway...(I had a pharmacist show me
it one time, it was clear as water, in a small vial).
I remember back in the mid 80s, to about early 90s, marijuana was
portrayed as the EVIL drug, just like how we view heroin and opiates
today, I went thru DARE at school, and if anyone had suggested one day
marijuana would be legal in the US, NO ONE back then would have believed
it, pot was really thought to be a bad thing in those days, there was a
huge campaign to keep kids off drugs, (mainly pot back then).
I think in about 20 yrs, heroin will go thru the same thing, it will not
be viewed as dangerous as it is right now, and/or more people will just
be acclimated to people using it recreationally, especially if they
cant get the abuse problem under control, back in the 80s, it was never
this bad with pot.
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Canada I believe, absolutely right. Its just hard to make comparisons
and when we do the first thing we have to admit, as you said, and we
see, health isn't a apparent priority of concern. Always comes down to
profit and control first, with health being secondary imho. When I say
control I mean arrests for poss and sales. The Marijuana, Heroin and
Cocaine lead stats with sales, with possession, Marijuana is alone at
top at double the closest others which is again Heroin and Cocaine.
So they profit and cut down on possessions filling the courts, unless
you don't pay the fees to see a so called Dr to receive a pot card. Here
anyone could have one for $250 bucks. Its quite a scam imho no
different than pill pushers with Oxycontin. Pay to play and avoid legal
complications.
Last edited by GaryTaylor; Jun 30, '16 at 4:32 pm.
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Jun 30, '16, 4:32 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 4, 2016
Posts: 1,766
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmachine
Hopefully federal legalization comes soon.
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God willing. I have my fingers crossed that one of Obama's last gifts will be taking cannabis off of the Schedule 1 category.
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Jun 30, '16, 4:41 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: March 30, 2010
Posts: 26,098
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
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I remember back in the mid 80s, to about early 90s, marijuana was portrayed as the EVIL drug,
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Interesting this is when we crucified people for all the above
including marijuana. The penal system became out of control as a result
of this period through 95. Its really a shame how many kids where
subjected to this abuse as a result and like you said the propaganda
fueled the sentencing. For example this is when Hillary was calling
people "super predators" and using very strict sentencing. We created a
monster is what we did and todays optics attempt to reduce the penal and
court numbers. What the heck and profit in the process. Win, win but a
still a moral ethical and legal mess.
Like I said, its not Hillary as many were involved or the users as I
have no issue with them as a general rule all people have issues, but
the incredible situation we self created.
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Jun 30, '16, 8:48 pm
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Forum Elder
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
http://time.com/4384781/advocates-for-opioid-recovery/
Anyway as much as marijuana embraces much of the same pro-choice and
escapism attitude it is also a viable option for pain, reducing the
craving in opiate reduction, and in effect tricking the brain.
Quote:
Science is on our side. Studies show that opioid addiction is a chronic
brain disease to which some people are genetically predisposed. One
patient may be prescribed painkillers after an injury or a surgery and
not become addicted, while the next patient may fall into a long-term
dependence. Like diabetes and asthma, it’s not likely to be beaten by
sheer will power, but must be managed and treated like any other chronic
disease. The Centers for Disease Control found that traditional forms
of treatment tend to fail: Eighty percent or more of those in treatment
for addiction will relapse. Talk therapy is part of the solution, but it
is only part of the solution.
Many studies have shown that medication is effective in promoting
long-term recovery by reducing cravings for opioids, lowering the risk
of fatal overdoses, and increasing the chances of recovery. A study
published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that the recovery
drug buprenorphine reduced the craving to use an opioid by roughly 50%
and increased the odds of not taking an opioid by about 3.5 times. Other
drugs, like naltrexone, have also shown promise. The more quickly
people living with addiction can access recovery medication, the more
likely they are to succeed in long-term recovery.
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Quote:
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New England Journal of Medicine found that the recovery drug
buprenorphine reduced the craving to use an opioid by roughly 50% and
increased the odds of not taking an opioid by about 3.5 times. Other
drugs, like naltrexone, have also shown promise.
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Buprenorphine takes place in detox at low doses of opiates, at this point marijuana is less invasive and just as effective imho.
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Jul 1, '16, 1:28 am
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Forum Master
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Join Date: December 22, 2008
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus L
We've legalized abortion and homosexual marriage. Marijuana could never be worse than that.
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There is no great moral questions revolving around tobacco or
marijuana or alcohol. While it is arguably somewhat useful for
governments to control the distribution of these products, there comes a
point when usage is widespread enough that trying to restrict use by
government causes more problems than it solves.
Hopefully, governments will opt for decriminalization rather than
legalization. We don't need governments making huge profits off of
taxing yet another drug.
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Jul 1, '16, 5:49 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: March 30, 2010
Posts: 26,098
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl1958
There is no great moral questions
revolving around tobacco or marijuana or alcohol. While it is arguably
somewhat useful for governments to control the distribution of these
products, there comes a point when usage is widespread enough that
trying to restrict use by government causes more problems than it
solves.
Hopefully, governments will opt for decriminalization rather than
legalization. We don't need governments making huge profits off of
taxing yet another drug.
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Amen, supply and demand, and the government then waves the
proverbial carrot in front of the hungry fish. Probably more like
shooting fish in a barrel. I love the way they talk social and
recreational and that turns quickly to life long maintenance. The
problem I see is we are feeding the monster and have abandoned hope for
them in the way we treat all this today. When you have a preponderance
of 20yo maintained on Methadone, Oxys and Benzos, and various other meds
and we are now maintaining them with marijuana same as with other
drugs.
Quote:
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Talk therapy is part of the solution, but it is only part of the solution.
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I would say the major part, and we just don't have the capacity of care
we need out here today opposed to size of this issue, so maintenance
became the path. We should start reducing all the harsh sentencing as
surely its further lacking moral ethics. We know we are maintaining
addicts and young and with all kinds of drugs and at an early age now.
Thats opposed to immediate detox and especially for young people. We are
then putting them in prison when they act up if they don't kill
themselves first which they also are apparently racing to do. I would
say then sentencing these people for our profit is abominable. Like I
was saying moral-ethical-legal tragedy. And yes decriminalize and be
very cautious as we see to legalize. We don't want to marry the monster.
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Jul 1, '16, 7:40 am
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Regular Member
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Join Date: April 7, 2012
Posts: 3,823
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl1958
There is no great moral questions
revolving around tobacco or marijuana or alcohol. While it is arguably
somewhat useful for governments to control the distribution of these
products, there comes a point when usage is widespread enough that
trying to restrict use by government causes more problems than it
solves.
Hopefully, governments will opt for decriminalization rather than
legalization. We don't need governments making huge profits off of
taxing yet another drug.
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I agree with decriminalization but more as a baby step towards
full legalization. I think we are ready for it in MA. We'll see what
happens in November. I'd be happy if they just let us grow it ourselves.
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Jul 1, '16, 9:21 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle
I think in about 20 yrs, heroin will go
thru the same thing, it will not be viewed as dangerous as it is right
now, and/or more people will just be acclimated to people using it
recreationally, especially if they cant get the abuse problem under
control, back in the 80s, it was never this bad with pot.
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Heroin as a medical use drug might come back. But as a
recreational drug it's far more addicting and damaging than pot. Heroin,
Cocaine and Meth are all incredibly destructive. My sister was an ER
nurse for 10 years and she lost count in the first month of the number
of people who came through her care who were addicted to those drugs and
whose bodies were being destroyed by those drugs.
Pot for all the DARE and Nancy Reagan imploring that it was bad, didn't
really bring anyone through her ER doors. Heck far and away way more
folks came through sauced up on booze than were a little mellowed off
pot.
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Jul 1, '16, 9:25 am
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Regular Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres1969
Heroin as a medical use drug might come
back. But as a recreational drug it's far more addicting and damaging
than pot. Heroin, Cocaine and Meth are all incredibly destructive. My
sister was an ER nurse for 10 years and she lost count in the first
month of the number of people who came through her care who were
addicted to those drugs and whose bodies were being destroyed by those
drugs.
Pot for all the DARE and Nancy Reagan imploring that it was bad, didn't
really bring anyone through her ER doors. Heck far and away way more
folks came through sauced up on booze than were a little mellowed off
pot.
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If they do end up at the ER it is because they ate too many
edibles. In my opinion edibles are expert level and shouldn't really be
done by a beginner unless they are careful and/or with someone who is
more experienced. It's very difficult to overdo it while smoking/vaping
but overdoing it by eating can be as easy as eating 2 gummy bears
instead of 1.
ETA: In my perfect world only the plant matter would be legal to sell.
You can make your own edibles at home. I'm not too keen on the processed
stuff like the wax and oils they have out there now.
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Jul 1, '16, 2:37 pm
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Veteran Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres1969
Heroin as a medical use drug might come
back. But as a recreational drug it's far more addicting and damaging
than pot. Heroin, Cocaine and Meth are all incredibly destructive. My
sister was an ER nurse for 10 years and she lost count in the first
month of the number of people who came through her care who were
addicted to those drugs and whose bodies were being destroyed by those
drugs.
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Heroin is more addictive, but the only reason its use tends to
destroy lives is due to the cost of the drug and those folks having to
resort to stealing and other crimes in order to get money for the drug.
Ive known plenty of people who use in moderation, they will do some in
the morning before work and then when they get home at night.
From a product standpoint, Heroin should actually be very cheap, the
poppie plant will grow in many different places, and its not hard to
make. The risk involved is what pushes the cost higher than gold.
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Jul 1, '16, 3:55 pm
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Forum Elder
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmachine
Hopefully federal legalization comes soon.
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I hope not.
Ed
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Jul 1, '16, 4:01 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle
I agree too.
The only thing the drug laws have done is to ensure the cartels do not
have much competition, and give law enforcement agencies something they
can use to keep asking for more money each year, plus the 'job security'
if drugs remain illegal, it keeps for profit prisons at capacity 100%
of the time too.
Ive always believed there is a certain level of collusion between the US
Govt and the Mexican drug cartels, this is the ONLY explanation for why
they are CONSISTENTLY able to get enough of their products into the
country, to keep virtually every US city fulled stocked...in a post 9-11
world their industry should have been all but wiped out thanks to tough
new security, but its the exact opposite, and not just with pot, nearly
every city is going thru a heroin epidemic, no matter what law
enforcement does at the local level, it just keeps on coming in, more
than ever...something not right with this imo.
It is a win-win for everyone though if drugs remain illegal, think about
it, if they successfully wiped out the drug cartels, and destroyed the
pot and opium fields, what would law enforcement have left to deal with?
Most of them would be out of a job.
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Nonsense. Marijuana is only one drug. Your local dope store will not
have heroin, cocaine, meth and other things. So if a pack of marijuana
is selling for $6 at the dope store, your local dope dealer will sell it
for $5 for the same amount. The States will be deprived of their $1 per
pack tax, and he has other goodies to offer if you want more fun.
And if I was a head of of organized crime, I'd open a bunch of dope stores so I could get my (legal) cut.
Ed
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Jul 1, '16, 4:16 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
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Jul 1, '16, 8:09 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: August 3, 2012
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2
Nonsense. Marijuana is only one drug. Your local dope store will not have heroin, cocaine, meth and other things.
Ed
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People said the exact same thing about marijuana back in the 80s/
early 90s, it is something that will never be legal, yet people kept
using and abusing it, and we are where we are today...public eventually
'compromised and gave in.
Im not certain but I assume if heroin continues to be a thick thorn in
their side for years to come, eventually SOME type of legal use will
result, or at least more people willing to talk about the possibility.
(Im also NOT referring to the lethal street level heroin).
It would be more like, "lets stop all the dying from this nasty street
grade heroin, if people are going to use it no matter what laws are in
place, lets at least give them a 'safer' variety that will not kill
them". Its kind of already began with more cities giving in to accept
needle exchanges, its only a matter of time.
IN 20 years, Id say marijuana will be legal for recreational use in
close to all 50 states, it will not even be a hot topic anymore, just
something that has become generally accepted over time.
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Jul 2, '16, 3:02 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: October 28, 2015
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle
Heroin is more addictive, but the only
reason its use tends to destroy lives is due to the cost of the drug and
those folks having to resort to stealing and other crimes in order to
get money for the drug. Ive known plenty of people who use in
moderation, they will do some in the morning before work and then when
they get home at night.
From a product standpoint, Heroin should actually be very cheap, the
poppie plant will grow in many different places, and its not hard to
make. The risk involved is what pushes the cost higher than gold.
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Tell that to my sister. Heroin's destruction of the body is more than just financial. 
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Jul 2, '16, 3:27 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 21, 2014
Posts: 3,366
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2
Nonsense. Marijuana is only one drug.
Your local dope store will not have heroin, cocaine, meth and other
things. So if a pack of marijuana is selling for $6 at the dope store,
your local dope dealer will sell it for $5 for the same amount. The
States will be deprived of their $1 per pack tax, and he has other
goodies to offer if you want more fun.
And if I was a head of of organized crime, I'd open a bunch of dope stores so I could get my (legal) cut.
Ed
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And what if the dealer's cost to produce equal quality is over $6?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres1969
Tell that to my sister. Heroin's destruction of the body is more than just financial. |
And heaven forbid it is laced with fentanyl
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Jul 2, '16, 7:17 pm
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Veteran Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres1969
Tell that to my sister. Heroin's destruction of the body is more than just financial. |
I know all about it, I am a recovering addict, thanks to Suboxone,
I have not used in over a year and have no desire to use again.
The heroin itself is usually not whats doing the physical damage, its
not much different than morphine you would get in a hospital, however
its the stuff that gets added to it, by dealers to increase profits,
they call it 'being stepped on', Lord knows what everyone adds to each
bag they buy, could be something deadly or powered sugar.
Plus, its the needle usage that contributes to most of the health
problems and damage too, like Hep C, and other blood diseases,
infections, etc.
The fact that so many people are injecting themselves with what could be
a number of things is why legalizing and regulation could save many
lives, its the same approach as needle exchanges, comes down to
accepting that certain number of people are GOING to use, no matter
what, so its more effective to deal with that rather than trying to get
rid of the problem as a whole.
If they are set on using, why not ensure they will at least not die or
inject themselves that could produce terrible suffering or even lead to a
more widespread public health problem? If they had pharmaceutical grade
heroin, at least they would know what they are getting and not a roll
of the dice everytime.
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Jul 3, '16, 12:53 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Just google marijuana rehab.
And who will pay for the cost of treatment for other addicts? We will.
Better that people accept that illegal drugs should never be used
instead of "accepting" it.
Ed
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Jul 3, '16, 1:15 pm
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Regular Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2
And who will pay for the cost of
treatment for other addicts? We will. Better that people accept that
illegal drugs should never be used instead of "accepting" it.
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If you're worried about cost taxpayers are already paying huge
sums of money to prosecute, imprison, and provide healthcare to addicts.
Decriminalizing drugs use not only improves public health but saves
taxpayers money.
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Jul 3, '16, 6:55 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: August 3, 2012
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2
Better that people accept that illegal drugs should never be used instead of "accepting" it.
Ed
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Well yes, that would be preferable, How I wish I would have
listened to my DARE instructors back when I was in school and never
chose to use heroin or other opiates, but unfortunately I fell into the
habit, once I knew how good it makes you feel, I was sold, and wanted
more. I was more productive at work, happier in general actually at the
beginning, the euphoria opiates produce is incredible, your life could
be falling down around you in every way possible,but if you have opiates
in your system, it would seem like life is great and everything is just
as it should be.
Unfortunately illegal drugs are available in every city in the country,
despite all the laws they create trying to deal with them, so at some
point, you cannot continue to just keep doing the same thing, the same
approach that has always failed.
More and more cities are reluctantly accepting needle exchange programs
for this very reason, even they recognize using law enforcement to get
this under control has been a total failure, and now we must at least
try to protect public health and safety, you dont want Hep C to start
spreading like wildfire as a result. We dont want dirty needles littered
all over our sidewalks and parks.
Of course law enforcement does not agree with needle exchanges, they see
it as beginning to accept and accommodate use, but all they offer in
return is more of the same tactics that have failed for years, new laws,
arresting people, etc. Gee, I wonder why they would be inclined to
think this way? lol
I do not see marijuana as a big problem, in fact I have never heard of
marijuana rehabs, at least in my area, all the rehabs here are for
opiates. People do not go out and rob, steal to pay for pot, if they do
not have their morning dose of pot, they dont start getting sick and
desperate, and most importantly, port is not that expensive, even heavy
daily use does not cost that much, compared to heroin at roughly $120
per gram, and some users must use upwards of 3-5 grams per day,
sometimes JUST to avoid getting sick (not getting high)!!! Now people
WILL go out and rob and steal to get money for Heroin!
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Jul 3, '16, 8:05 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: March 9, 2012
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
People also have to go to rehab for abusing legal medications too. Should we make all drugs with potential for abuse illegal?
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Jul 6, '16, 11:50 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmachine
If you're worried about cost taxpayers
are already paying huge sums of money to prosecute, imprison, and
provide healthcare to addicts. Decriminalizing drugs use not only improves public health but saves taxpayers money.
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Some drugs. Others not so much.
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Jul 6, '16, 3:04 pm
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by misspriss
People also have to go to rehab for abusing legal medications too. Should we make all drugs with potential for abuse illegal?
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Well, they basically already have...due to the abuse rates of
opiate painkillers, the DEA cracked down extremely hard on doctors and
hospitals, now its tough to even get a prescription for painkiller, even
if you need it, the DEA and Govt have all the doctors scared of writing
scripts for certain drugs.
Ive spoken to numerous people who now cannot get their medicine thanks
to these new regulations,so they punished everyone due to a small
percentage abusing them..DUH?
Even in a case of a person not being able to afford monthly doctor
visits, but they know which painkiller is effective for them, if they
try to buy it anywhere but thru a doctor or pharmacy, it is a crime to
do so, even if they prove the doctors gave to them in the past!!!
Sounds to me like big pharma wants to ensure people come thru them and they 'lobby' the DEA and Govt to make that happen. LOL
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Jul 6, '16, 3:50 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: September 19, 2013
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Real reason the Democrats & other liberals are in favor of
legalizing Marijuana... easy, new tax revenue stream. Plain and simple.
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Jul 6, '16, 4:05 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: October 28, 2015
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil19034
Real reason the Democrats & other
liberals are in favor of legalizing Marijuana... easy, new tax revenue
stream. Plain and simple.
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Pretty much. I mean if it's being bought and sold already might as
well make a buck off of it. It'll help offset losses in cigarette tax
revenues. And when it comes down to it, weed is not much different than
tobacco in it's impact on the body. As long as weed is similarly
regulated in terms of where you can smoke it, etc...
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Jul 6, '16, 4:11 pm
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Regular Member
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by misspriss
People also have to go to rehab for abusing legal medications too. Should we make all drugs with potential for abuse illegal?
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In some states you can get multiple years in prison for smoking
marijuana, perhaps mandatory rehab which is safer and far more effective
as well as cheaper would be a better approach.
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Jul 7, '16, 7:37 am
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Re: Marijuana legalization measure qualifies for November ballot
Quote:
Originally Posted by misspriss
People also have to go to rehab for abusing legal medications too. Should we make all drugs with potential for abuse illegal?
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Drug use should be treated as a addiction/medical issue, not a
criminal one. The War on Drugs has killed and destroyed more lives than
the drugs they aim to fight.
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Rules are for those afraid to make their own. - Chuck Yeager
If it's important to her it's important to me. - Me
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