Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches!

May 4, '16, 8:46 pm

thephilosopher6 Regular Member Greeter Prayer Warrior   Join Date: October 5, 2015 Posts: 1,465 Religion: Catholic

Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! http://nypost.com/2016/05/04/heard-o...nated-attacks/ I hope this is not true in anyway and just allegations. Still, pray for our Orthodox brethren. __________________

#2   May 4, '16, 9:55 pm

Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! I think newspapers should only publish facts or at least circumstantial evidence. Insinuating that Catholics were involved in this arson based on a hunch and publishing it shows, in my opinion, the Anti-Catholic bias of this NY tabloid. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)

#3   May 4, '16, 10:18 pm

otjm Veteran Member   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 9,132 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer I think newspapers should only publish facts or at least circumstantial evidence. Insinuating that Catholics were involved in this arson based on a hunch and publishing it shows, in my opinion, the Anti-Catholic bias of this NY tabloid. As I read the article, the insinuation is that Orthodox set the blazes.

#4   May 4, '16, 10:37 pm

thephilosopher6 Regular Member Greeter Prayer Warrior   Join Date: October 5, 2015 Posts: 1,465 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by otjm As I read the article, the insinuation is that Orthodox set the blazes. Are you saying some Orthodox did it to try and frame Catholics or something? I am in no way suggesting Catholics did it. Indeed, this article offended me too and is a perfect demonstration of anti-Catholicism. But I don't think the Orthodox would destroy their own churches just to lay then blame on some other group such as us Catholics. In fact, Catholics and Orthodox in places like Serbia seem to have good relations and it only keeps improving. __________________

#5   May 5, '16, 12:01 am

Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Personally, I find it highly doubtful that any of these churches were burned by either Serbian or Croation Christians, or by Christians of any other stripe. That would make no sense whatsoever, no matter how you look at it. But these are very clearly arsons. There's no way that four major Orthodox Cathedrals all around the world just happened to all catch on fire on Orthodox Easter. Perhaps ISIL executed a synchronized, global attack on Orthodox churches? But then, I suppose they would have claimed responsibility. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine

#6   May 5, '16, 3:45 am

peter26 Regular Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: August 20, 2012 Posts: 2,064 Religion: Looking for a new path

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! I really hope not, but the number of Orthodox churches on fire on the same day is a little suspect. The universal Christian Church has far too much opposition in this secular world as it is without going back to violence between different denominations. __________________ The Lord bless thee, and keep thee. The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee. The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. Numbers 6:24-26

#7   May 5, '16, 4:34 am

oliver927 Regular Member   Join Date: January 8, 2015 Posts: 555 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by otjm As I read the article, the insinuation is that Orthodox set the blazes. I came to the opposite conclusion. From the article: Quote: Many people in the Christian Orthodox community believe the blazes at St. Sava and in Russia and Australia may have been set in retaliation for Pope Francis’ recent decision to postpone the canonization of Croatian Cardinal Aloysius Stepinac, an infamous Nazi supporter. Francis chose to stop the ceremony from happening last week after the Serbian Orthodox Church and Patriarch Irinej himself urged the pontiff to consider Stepinac’s notorious past. Orthodox Christians ultimately fear that the churches may have all been set on fire by Stepinac supporters fuming over the pope’s decision. So, if we are to believe the article, some Orthodox are fearing the fire was started by Stepinac supporters who were angry the Pope canceled a ceremony to canonize Stepinac (a Catholic) after the Serbian Orthodox Church urged him to do so. I would presume that since Stepinac was Catholic that his supporters, who apparently are upset at the ceremony cancellation, would also be Catholic. At least that is what I got out of the article.

#8   May 5, '16, 4:38 am

DeniseNY Senior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 8,071 Religion: Byzantine Catholic ☦

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer I think newspapers should only publish facts or at least circumstantial evidence. Insinuating that Catholics were involved in this arson based on a hunch and publishing it shows, in my opinion, the Anti-Catholic bias of this NY tabloid. Actually, the Post has done several stories over just the last few years putting people and organizations on blast for their anti-Catholic bias, so I think your conclusion of off-base.

#9   May 5, '16, 5:32 am

Seamus L Senior Member   Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 8,071 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Only one of the 4 churches is Serbian, and another is in Russia where there would be very few Cathlolics.

#10   May 5, '16, 11:10 am

AnastasiaRomano Regular Member   Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 751

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by Seamus L Only one of the 4 churches is Serbian, and another is in Russia where there would be very few Cathlolics. Yes. 1 Serbian, 1 Greek, 1 Macedonian, 1 Russian Orthodox church. All Orthodox but from different jurisdictions. It is certainly odd, I grant that, and authorities can't help but investigate whether there is any connection. But I doubt that there is a worldwide network of Croatian Catholic arsonists. As for the church (monastery, really) in Russia, it has in recent years been engaged in various legal proceedings to evict other residents of the island where it is located. See http://www.sova-center.ru/en/religio...016/04/d34317/ (search on the page for Valaam) If that church fire was arson, I'm just guessing that a local resident mad about eviction is a more likely suspect than a Croatian Catholic mad at another jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church.

#11   May 5, '16, 11:23 am

AnastasiaRomano Regular Member   Join Date: October 24, 2010 Posts: 751

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by AnastasiaRomano Yes. 1 Serbian, 1 Greek, 1 Macedonian, 1 Russian Orthodox church. All Orthodox but from different jurisdictions. It is certainly odd, I grant that, and authorities can't help but investigate whether there is any connection. But I doubt that there is a worldwide network of Croatian Catholic arsonists. As for the church (monastery, really) in Russia, it has in recent years been engaged in various legal proceedings to evict other residents of the island where it is located. See http://www.sova-center.ru/en/religio...016/04/d34317/ (search on the page for Valaam) If that church fire was arson, I'm just guessing that a local resident mad about eviction is a more likely suspect than a Croatian Catholic mad at another jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church. After reading more about the Valaam fire, it sounds like the fire even started in the "Winter Hotel" from which the monastery had been trying to evict residents.

#12   May 5, '16, 1:57 pm

otjm Veteran Member   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 9,132 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by thephilosopher6 Are you saying some Orthodox did it to try and frame Catholics or something? I am in no way suggesting Catholics did it. Indeed, this article offended me too and is a perfect demonstration of anti-Catholicism. But I don't think the Orthodox would destroy their own churches just to lay then blame on some other group such as us Catholics. In fact, Catholics and Orthodox in places like Serbia seem to have good relations and it only keeps improving. No - just referring to (I think) the last sentence or two in the article. At least, that is how I read it, and I went over it twice.

#13   May 5, '16, 1:59 pm

otjm Veteran Member   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 9,132 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by oliver927 I came to the opposite conclusion. From the article: So, if we are to believe the article, some Orthodox are fearing the fire was started by Stepinac supporters who were angry the Pope canceled a ceremony to canonize Stepinac (a Catholic) after the Serbian Orthodox Church urged him to do so. I would presume that since Stepinac was Catholic that his supporters, who apparently are upset at the ceremony cancellation, would also be Catholic. At least that is what I got out of the article. Ah - maybe you are right. I dunno...

#14   May 5, '16, 4:46 pm

JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,446 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by otjm As I read the article, the insinuation is that Orthodox set the blazes. No the insinuation would be that Catholics who are supporters of Cardinal Stepinac been made a saint did. Stepinac had the misfortune to live during the period of the Ustase and for many Serbian Orthodox his memory is associated with that Stepinac was quite nationalist. Unfortunately due to the barbarism of the Ustase and the resulting bloodbath of the regime under Pavelic in Croatia making Stepinac a saint has not er, gone done well in some Orthodox circles. Stepinac in fairness moved a long, long way from supporting the Ustase or nationalist groups associated with them as they become steadily more bloodthirsty and condemned them harshly. However there is a long history of mutual sectarianism there that predates that whole period and this was only one of the more recent rounds in centuries of 'killing each other in the name of Christ' to borrow a quote from a satirical writer. However since the whole period involved the death of hundreds of thousands of peoples and forcible conversions it has left bitter, bitter memories in people's heads. I don't however think this is some campaign but just incredibly bad luck, one of these Churches might have been deliberately attacked but hardly all 4. Also as pointed out with regards to Russia there were some underlying issues there apparently already and the number of Catholics in the Federation is pretty small as a percentage of the whole Russian populace.

#15   May 5, '16, 5:43 pm

josie L Forum Elder   Join Date: October 24, 2008 Posts: 18,591 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! I recollect an Orthodox Church (or was it Eastern Catholic) burning down last year as a result of the many tapers/candles in use, this, is more than likely the cause of the fires. p.s. I don't know much about the NY POST, but, honestly, why would you print such a potentially libelous article????? __________________ Don't say: "That person gets on my nerves." Think: "That person sanctifies me." St. Josemaria Escriva Last edited by josie L; May 5, '16 at 5:57 pm.      May 5, '16, 5:45 pm DeniseNY Senior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 8,071 Religion: Byzantine Catholic ☦ Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by josie L I recollect an Orthodox Church (or was it Eastern Catholic) burning down last year as a result of the many tapers/Candles that the Eastern Christians use, could this be the cause? It's being looked at as a possible cause.   #17   May 8, '16, 4:41 pm otjm Veteran Member   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 9,132 Religion: Catholic Re: Cardinal Stepinac supporters may have set fire to Orthodox Churches! Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian No the insinuation would be that Catholics who are supporters of Cardinal Stepinac been made a saint did. Stepinac had the misfortune to live during the period of the Ustase and for many Serbian Orthodox his memory is associated with that Stepinac was quite nationalist. Unfortunately due to the barbarism of the Ustase and the resulting bloodbath of the regime under Pavelic in Croatia making Stepinac a saint has not er, gone done well in some Orthodox circles. Stepinac in fairness moved a long, long way from supporting the Ustase or nationalist groups associated with them as they become steadily more bloodthirsty and condemned them harshly. However there is a long history of mutual sectarianism there that predates that whole period and this was only one of the more recent rounds in centuries of 'killing each other in the name of Christ' to borrow a quote from a satirical writer. However since the whole period involved the death of hundreds of thousands of peoples and forcible conversions it has left bitter, bitter memories in people's heads. I don't however think this is some campaign but just incredibly bad luck, one of these Churches might have been deliberately attacked but hardly all 4. Also as pointed out with regards to Russia there were some underlying issues there apparently already and the number of Catholics in the Federation is pretty small as a percentage of the whole Russian populace. Thank you for sharing the information. From that, it is easier to see why some might be suspicious.