Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early

Apr 28, '16, 7:05 am

Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic

Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7004266.html The city of Glasgow has long been notorious for the astonishing gap in life expectancy between rich and poor. Men who can expect to die at the age of just 54 live within a few miles of those who will survive well into their 80s. Now researchers believe they have found a key reason for this disparity – the regular consumption of cheap, processed meat, particularly by the city’s poorest men. The article continues at the link. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine

#2   Apr 28, '16, 9:47 am

lax16 Regular Member   Join Date: March 13, 2010 Posts: 4,824 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7004266.html The city of Glasgow has long been notorious for the astonishing gap in life expectancy between rich and poor. Men who can expect to die at the age of just 54 live within a few miles of those who will survive well into their 80s. Now researchers believe they have found a key reason for this disparity – the regular consumption of cheap, processed meat, particularly by the city’s poorest men. The article continues at the link. While I am not advocating people eat red meat 7 nights a week, I found the article to be unconvincing. Consuming processed red meat on a regular basis can cause a person to die 30 years early? Ten maybe, but 30? Maybe these men also live near a refinery or are alcoholics or drug addicts? There needs to be more information available on the complete study of why these men are dying so early.

#3   Apr 28, '16, 10:01 am

Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by lax16 While I am not advocating people eat red meat 7 nights a week, I found the article to be unconvincing. Consuming processed red meat on a regular basis can cause a person to die 30 years early? Ten maybe, but 30? Maybe these men also live near a refinery or are alcoholics or drug addicts? There needs to be more information available on the complete study of why these men are dying so early. Oh, I agree that thirty years is a shockingly long time. The study is titled "Accelerated ageing and renal dysfunction links lower socioeconomic status and dietary phosphate intake", and the abstract is easy to find on any search engine. The article sums it up well, I think. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it either, though. I have the same questions you have. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine

#4   Apr 28, '16, 10:20 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,710 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early The article never says what additives are causing this or how one might avoid it. They talk about "cheap" red meat (as opposed, I guess to more expensive red meat) as being the culprit. Are we talking about highly processed stuff here, like some kind of sausages or products like Spam? Or are we talking about a steak that didn't cost as much as a really good one? I have a feeling this isn't just a matter of phosphate levels. There is some reason why the phosphate levels are high. Is it used as a preservative for long shelf life? What? But what else is in the meat and other foods? But blue collar people just don't tend to live as long as white collar people, on average. Lots of reasons for that, one of which is probably different exposure to all kinds of toxic things. The difficulty of their job functions is likely another. Get sore every day and take Iburprofen, it'll ruin your kidneys eventually. Take Tylenol a lot and you'll destroy your liver. Medical care is probably another. And yes, probably if one eats things that are full of additives, it's probably harder on the system than eating things that aren't. I know this. Fully grass-fed beef has the same amount of 'good" cholesterol as fish does, and it doesn't have mercury and other toxins in it like fish so often does. But grass-fed is expensive because the processing and marketing systems aren't set up for it.

#5   Apr 28, '16, 11:12 am

Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976!

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Processed meat is not the same as "red meat." It rarely is 100% meat. And being Glasgow, what did the men eat with the meat? I'd be willing to bet that would include a lot of battered & fried stuff. And what about tobacco & alcohol? Teasing out one food item from a diet & saying it is the culprit for disease or early death is incredibly difficult. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!

#6   Apr 28, '16, 1:37 pm

Roselle Regular Member   Join Date: December 24, 2010 Posts: 853

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Sad to see the large life span discrepancy. Hopefully a sensible answer can be found to help the situation. I'm not of the opinion that blaming red meat is the cause. Many potential factors could play a part in the life expectancy difference. I've seen studies finding meat eaters live as long as vegetarians. Others disagree naturally. It wouldn't surprise me though if wealthier individuals were healthier. There could be a number of difference reasons to explain that. Its just an observation on my part, but I've noticed in my family and with friends, the healthiest tend to be the highest educated, and tend to do well with earnings. Ones with diseases such as type 2 diabetes, stomach IBD diseases, autoimmune conditions, etc tend to do the worst with making a living. I thought this an interesting article from a Scottish doctor on type 2 diabetes. Those with diabetes tend to live shorter lives, up to a decade shorter. Over the last few years a number of studies have come out showing the current way of treatments for type 2 diabetes could be wrong. Lowering blood sugars with medications isn't preventing diabetes complications such as blindness, limb amputations, nerve damage, cancers, heart disease, etc. The doctor explains the studies, and speculates the wrong hormone is being manipulated. Low blood sugar might be causing the damage, resulting in to shorter life spans. His article on the studies and theory on low blood sugar can be read here: "Turning diabetes upside down" https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/0...s-upside-down/

#7   Apr 28, '16, 1:54 pm

Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976!

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Roselle "Turning diabetes upside down" https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/0...s-upside-down/ Dr. Kendrick is great! He mostly writes about heart disease, which is helpful for me as husband had heart bypass surgery 16 years ago. I'm a T2 diabetic & I get really irked at the the advice of the ADA. Most nutritionists will tell diabetics to eat a minimum of 45g carbs at every meal. I'm sure they are assuming that all diabetics are on meds. I'm not (my body doesn't like the meds I can afford) so I don't even eat 45g in a day. And I'm doing quite well, thank you! __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!

#8   Apr 28, '16, 2:01 pm

grotto   Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 2,894 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Sounds like this is "Global Warming all over again". The almost gone POTUS has made prices rise just like closing down coal production, people out of work, so ending "cheap" red meat by making it expensive should fix the problem! __________________ "What amazed Edward Winslow during the summer of 1622 was how "reasonable men will be led to reason against their own safety." MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick

#9   Apr 28, '16, 2:10 pm

GaryTaylor Forum Elder   Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early No-one is twisting their arms, they could eat rice and beans and be vegetarian. Matter of choice imo.

#10   Apr 28, '16, 2:25 pm

Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976!

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by GaryTaylor No-one is twisting their arms, they could eat rice and beans and be vegetarian. Matter of choice imo. A matter of education. It's hard to make the right choices if you don't know what they are. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!

#11   Apr 28, '16, 3:33 pm

Theo520 Regular Member   Join Date: August 8, 2014 Posts: 5,532 Religion: Christian

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7004266.html The city of Glasgow has long been notorious for the astonishing gap in life expectancy between rich and poor. Men who can expect to die at the age of just 54 live within a few miles of those who will survive well into their 80s. Now researchers believe they have found a key reason for this disparity – the regular consumption of cheap, processed meat, particularly by the city’s poorest men. The article continues at the link. I found the conculsion inappropriate, to confirm the root cause is poverty. Bad diet is a habit that is easily corrected with education. It would cost no more money to reduce pop and red meat, substituting water, eggs, beans, soy, and milk products. __________________ FACTS MATTER!

#12   Apr 28, '16, 7:02 pm

ATeNumquam Regular Member   Join Date: May 31, 2004 Posts: 1,297 Religion: Catholic - gender, female

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Fully grass-fed beef has the same amount of 'good" cholesterol as fish does, and it doesn't have mercury and other toxins in it like fish so often does. But grass-fed is expensive because the processing and marketing systems aren't set up for it. Well over here in New Zealand, all our beef is grass-fed. Free-range! It's the cheapest way for us to produce beef. Import our meat!: __________________ A Te numquam separari permittas - never let me be parted from You

#13   Apr 28, '16, 7:04 pm

jediliz Regular Member   Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 4,540 Religion: Catholic and Proud of it!

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Theo520 I found the conculsion inappropriate, to confirm the root cause is poverty. Bad diet is a habit that is easily corrected with education. It would cost no more money to reduce pop and red meat, substituting water, eggs, beans, soy, and milk products. Actually soy is bad for the thyroid. __________________ A Rosary a Day Keeps the Devil Away! "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." - Our Lady of Fatima Who will speak for those who have no voice? Life.....what a beautiful choice!

#14   Apr 28, '16, 8:39 pm

Theo520 Regular Member   Join Date: August 8, 2014 Posts: 5,532 Religion: Christian

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz Actually soy is bad for the thyroid. No, it's not bad for your thyroid. The only risk is if you already have thyroid issues and are taking medicine, in that situation it may interfere with your GI tract absorbing the medicine. __________________ FACTS MATTER!

#15   Apr 29, '16, 4:59 am

Pat the elder Junior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2008 Posts: 256 Religion: Catholic

Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Glasgow is a strange city in as much as there are areas blighted by drugs, unemployment, poverty etc. alongside areas which are wealthy and see little of any type of social problems. Some of these are only seperated by a couple of streets or a park. In Catholic terms they may even be in the same Parish. The area probably referred to is the parliamentry constituence of Shettleston in the east end of the city. The life expectancy here is something like 57 for males, a statistic skewed by the large number of young males that die from drug overdoses and linked problems. Studies have linked poverty and poor diet so that is where the reference to processed red meat (not so much cheaper cuts but cheap burgers that have been shown a photo of a cow). comes from. I don't know what the answer is but I do know from first hand experience that this has become a gererational problem with people from the poorer areas having much lower expectations for their children in educational and social aspirational terms than when I was young. (My old man worked 'doon the pit' (a coalminer) and wanted better for his children, so he reckoned that the only way out was through education. These days apathy seems to have replaced that type of ambition. __________________ VERY CATHOLIC - VERY SOCIALIST        Apr 29, '16, 6:31 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Even the most expensive red meat will kill off a person years before his or her time.   #17   Apr 29, '16, 7:25 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans Even the most expensive red meat will kill off a person years before his or her time. Um...no. Good or poor health is more than just one food. My husband (a heart surgery & cancer survivor) will be 81 next month. He's a meat & veggie eater (pretty much quit grains a couple years ago), still works part time, is building me a barn almost single-handed, and has energy to spare. Don't think the meat's going to kill him. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!   #18   Apr 29, '16, 7:50 am grotto   Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 2,894 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early It is very expensive to follow a strict vegan food regimen. Obtaining the food can involve travel and time. Discipline to eat enough is also needed. Total vegan is a social status identifier fed by a self superiority. __________________ "What amazed Edward Winslow during the summer of 1622 was how "reasonable men will be led to reason against their own safety." MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick   #19   Apr 29, '16, 7:54 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder   Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Bonnie Um...no. Good or poor health is more than just one food. My husband (a heart surgery & cancer survivor) will be 81 next month. He's a meat & veggie eater (pretty much quit grains a couple years ago), still works part time, is building me a barn almost single-handed, and has energy to spare. Don't think the meat's going to kill him. Well, she's not all wrong Bonnie, you do have to watch red meat consumption or at least you should. Once every four days at most was the recommended consumption. But I think the article sort of removes free choice and suggests these souls are forced to succumb to a deadly diet. I just don't think by large its true. People by large become accustomed to a particular diet and often struggle with denial it may eventually kill them, and thats aside from the age issue which makes activity a further possible problem. Perhaps we all to some degree do this with various food items to some degree. But the knowledge is out here and its much harder to actualize as age becomes a factor. I mean I see this here and with friends, family etc. Quote: He's a meat & veggie eater (pretty much quit grains a couple years ago), still works part time, is building me a barn almost single-handed, and has energy to spare. Don't think the meat's going to kill him. Amen,   #20   Apr 29, '16, 7:56 am SWolf   Join Date: December 30, 2013 Posts: 1,980 Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Bonnie Um...no. Good or poor health is more than just one food. My husband (a heart surgery & cancer survivor) will be 81 next month. He's a meat & veggie eater (pretty much quit grains a couple years ago), still works part time, is building me a barn almost single-handed, and has energy to spare. Don't think the meat's going to kill him. Recent research has shown pure low-carb meat and veggie diets to be perfectly safe.   #21   Apr 29, '16, 8:00 am SWolf   Join Date: December 30, 2013 Posts: 1,980 Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by GaryTaylor Well, she's not all wrong Bonnie, you do have to watch red meat consumption or at least you should. Once every four days at least was the recommended consumption. Amen, The recommended consumption is nonsense and based on junk science. The USDA recommendation have always been political, not scientific. Even Salon knows this! http://www.salon.com/2015/04/12/the_...ent_allows_it/   #22   Apr 29, '16, 8:12 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder   Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by SWolf The recommended consumption is nonsense and based on junk science. The USDA recommendation have always been political, not scientific. Even Salon knows this! http://www.salon.com/2015/04/12/the_...ent_allows_it/ http://time.com/3668154/should-i-eat-red-meat/ Quote: Other experts think meat currently has far too big a place in the diet and should be limited to 1 time per week or less, according to Julia Zumpano, an RD at Cleveland Clinic’s Heart & Vascular Institute. The best cuts are the leanest ones, like loin, tenderloin, sirloin, filet or flank, she says. Quote: “Studies find a strong association between processed meat and bad outcomes, but no such association for pure meat,” says David Katz, MD, director of the Yale University Prevention Research Center.   #23   Apr 29, '16, 8:16 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by SWolf Recent research has shown pure low-carb meat and veggie diets to be perfectly safe. I eat meat, fish, and/or eggs every day. Minimal veggies, no grains, so sugar. My blood sugar is better than it's ever been. As a T2 diabetic who can't tolerate meds, and can't afford the meds I might be able to tolerate, this is good news! And I'm not eating top-drawer meats either - can't afford the special stuff, so it's lots of ground beef on sale & pot roasts. I do have my own chickens for eggs & will soon be back into rabbits again. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!   #24   Apr 29, '16, 8:18 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,538 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Perhaps they should have eaten beef hearts. Cheap meat, nutrition profile doesn't seem that bad. Quite tasty too.   #25   Apr 29, '16, 8:29 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by grotto It is very expensive to follow a strict vegan food regimen. Obtaining the food can involve travel and time. Discipline to eat enough is also needed. Total vegan is a social status identifier fed by a self superiority. I am not a vegan, but I don't eat red meat. An occasional steak, hamburger, etc. isn't going to hurt anyone, though. Most red meat is filled with hormones and antibiotics that aren't good for anyone, though. I eat fresh fruits and fresh vegetables and grains and some tuna or salmon (ocean, not farmed). Everything organic. No cow's milk! Filled with hormones and antibiotics as well. I use almond or cashew milk. Nothing processed or with preservatives! Absolutely no social status involved. It's all health, and people who eat a vegetarian diet usually look many, many years younger than they are. Just an added bonus. Red meat ages people just like smoking does. And yes, an organic vegetarian diet is very expensive! "Vegetarians tend to eat fewer calories, since grains, legumes, fruits, and vegetables, volume-for-volume, tend to be lower in calories than meat and poultry. Studies have shown that as long as their diet is balanced and nutritious, the people who consume fewer total daily calories live longer and healthier lives. Aug 9, 2013"   #26   Apr 29, '16, 8:34 am SWolf   Join Date: December 30, 2013 Posts: 1,980 Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by GaryTaylor http://time.com/3668154/should-i-eat-red-meat/ Other experts think meat currently has far too big a place in the diet and should be limited to 1 time per week or less, according to Julia Zumpano, an RD at Cleveland Clinic’s Heart & Vascular Institute. The best cuts are the leanest ones, like loin, tenderloin, sirloin, filet or flank, she says. Such "experts" are wrong.   #27   Apr 29, '16, 8:36 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by SWolf Such "experts" are wrong. You think people should eat cuts of meat that are filled with fat? They shouldn't.   #28   Apr 29, '16, 8:37 am CradleJourney Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2013 Posts: 1,571 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early One sentence in the articles references the lack of fruits and vegetables in the diet - am I the only one who thinks that perchance it's less about what one eats than what one does not eat? I have lived long enough to see every kind of diet recommendation come and go and one can find a study to back almost any argument. The one constant that does not seem to be argued with is eating a variety of basically natural foods for an extended time - be that grass fed beef, raw carrots, whole grain breads, seafood, dairy, etc. Add in the research that is finally beginning to recognize that each individual is indeed unique in how they process medications (and one may assume nutrients in food) and to me all this fuss over finding a magic rule that creates a diet that works perfectly for everyone to obtain perfect health is a waste of time.   #29   Apr 29, '16, 8:42 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Sugary baked goods are terrible for people. I have a sweet tooth, though, so will eat a few shortbread or peanut butter cookies over the weekend. Weekdays, if I feel like something sweet I drink cold coconut water. It's delicious. And every weekend I treat myself to a banana smoothie or a peanut butter chocolate smoothie. I feel extremes are never good, hence, the tuna and salmon in an otherwise vegetarian diet, and a few sweets on weekends only.   #30   Apr 29, '16, 8:48 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans You think people should eat cuts of meat that are filled with fat? They shouldn't. I think people should eat what makes them feel better. I do better with plenty of fatty meat, fish, & eggs. Others do well on a vegetarian diet. Each to their own. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76! Apr 29, '16, 8:48 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder   Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by SWolf Such "experts" are wrong. Actually your talking a different point than basically Lilly and I have discussed and the OP, which is red-meat and processed meat. I don't disagree with much stated in your article about sugar or the idea one can build a low-carb meat and veggie diet that indeed may be productive. What we are discussing isn't really mutually exclusive but more specifically targets red meat and processed meat and defined.   #32   Apr 29, '16, 8:53 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early I don't like chicken or turkey so don't eat them, but I think a little can be good for a person if they aren't filled with antibiotics and hormones. Same for tuna and salmon. They are filled with omega-3s and 6s, but if farmed, they will do a person more harm than good. I do eat the tuna and salmon as long as it is ocean fish.   #33   Apr 29, '16, 9:14 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder   Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: if they aren't filled with antibiotics and hormones. That and the daily sodium intake. I think the trend towards stomach belts and one day surgery is concerning though. What I have seen with this isn't better eating habits but more sugar consumption basically since the sugar dissolves quickly and is easy to swallow. That said the actual article seems to place a myopic view on poverty/poor and health when in truth for example here in the USA obesity is an issue because of not poverty, but in essence a prosperous society.   #34   Apr 29, '16, 9:15 am Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Pat the elder Glasgow is a strange city in as much as there are areas blighted by drugs, unemployment, poverty etc. alongside areas which are wealthy and see little of any type of social problems. Some of these are only seperated by a couple of streets or a park. In Catholic terms they may even be in the same Parish. The area probably referred to is the parliamentry constituence of Shettleston in the east end of the city. The life expectancy here is something like 57 for males, a statistic skewed by the large number of young males that die from drug overdoses and linked problems. Studies have linked poverty and poor diet so that is where the reference to processed red meat (not so much cheaper cuts but cheap burgers that have been shown a photo of a cow). comes from. I don't know what the answer is but I do know from first hand experience that this has become a gererational problem with people from the poorer areas having much lower expectations for their children in educational and social aspirational terms than when I was young. (My old man worked 'doon the pit' (a coalminer) and wanted better for his children, so he reckoned that the only way out was through education. These days apathy seems to have replaced that type of ambition. Hey Pat, I was hoping someone from Glasgow would weigh in. So from your comment I gather that the article is basically accurate, I mean as far as a huge difference in lifespans between rich and poor, or well-off and poor, are concerned. It's the same story here in the U.S. when it comes to Indian reservations. One of my friends is an engineer at Boeing who makes an extremely good living, but he's from Pine Ridge, and that's where his family still lives. I've actually been there with him, and it's grim. Life expectancy is 48 or 50 for males, and a few years more for females. I've been told that at other reservations it isn't quite as bad, but it's close. Once people leave the reservations, though, and live somewhere else, then the average life expectancy goes up almost to the normal U.S. life expectancy, which is decades and decades longer. As far as poverty in Glasgow goes, I would guess that it's like here, where people who are raised in poverty often keep the same eating habits they grew up with throughout their lives. Because even though everyone knows cheap greasy hamburgers are unhealthy, it doesn't necessarily change something as deep-seated as inter-generational poverty, which is surely something that's pretty complicated. Maybe someone could get rich by starting a chain of cheap, tasty and healthy sandwich shops in Glasgow, who knows. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #35   Apr 29, '16, 9:16 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by GaryTaylor That and the daily sodium intake. I think the trend towards stomach belts and one day surgery is concerning though. What I have seen with this isn't better eating habits but more sugar consumption basically since the sugar dissolves quickly and is easy to swallow. That said the actual article seems to place a myopic view on poverty/poor and health when in truth for example here in the USA obesity is an issue because of not poverty, but in essence a prosperous society. I agree.   #36   Apr 29, '16, 9:34 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder   Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: where people who are raised in poverty often keep the same eating habits they grew up with throughout their lives. Because even though everyone knows cheap greasy hamburgers are unhealthy, it doesn't necessarily change something as deep-seated as inter-generational poverty, which is surely something that's pretty complicated. Maybe someone could get rich by starting a chain of cheap, tasty and healthy Good observation, I would say "Subway" wasn't it nor is "Mc Donalds" here. Theres a real need for a fast food here with a healthy diet Quote: Maybe someone could get rich by starting a chain of cheap, tasty and healthy Its also a matter of acquiring taste, I know that sounds cliche but its true as with a veggie or fish diet. I still had to force myself to eat peas yet in time have become quite fond of pea soup. However, this also becomes a good habit. I went from telling mom I really don't "want" to eat the fri fish to basically living off it as an adult. If I have to pick a primary food source to survive fish and veggies would be the start of it. Lilly outlined a very good diet above and I think in general women are more inclined to do this, though it does seem out of need and health men catch up.   #37   Apr 29, '16, 9:57 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child Maybe someone could get rich by starting a chain of cheap, tasty and healthy sandwich shops in Glasgow, who knows. Doubt if he would get rich. A relative had the brilliant idea of changing the menu of his food cart to feature mostly healthful foods. He nearly went broke. Changed back & last I heard is doing well. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!   #38   Apr 29, '16, 10:59 am Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Bonnie Doubt if he would get rich. A relative had the brilliant idea of changing the menu of his food cart to feature mostly healthful foods. He nearly went broke. Changed back & last I heard is doing well. Well, it has to be possible to find healthy foods that are at least almost as appealing as unhealthy foods. Avocado-based foods can be like that, for instance, and I bet there aren't a whole lot of top-shelf Mexican joints in Glasgow. That's just a guess, though; I've never actually been to Glasgow. But there are definitely simple and relatively painless ways to sidestep cheap, fast, toxic foods. I think that hard drinkers who switch to nothing but red wine could potentially add many years to their lives just by doing that alone. Add a few fruits and vegetables each day, and one would probably be a lot better off. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #39   Apr 29, '16, 11:10 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child Well, it has to be possible to find healthy foods that are at least almost as appealing as unhealthy foods. There's a low carb food cart (& restaurant) in Portland - the Cultured Caveman. I'm definitely trying that next time I'm there! A couple years ago I ate at the food cart hub (or whatever it's called) in SE Portland. One cart had the closest to low carb - all I had to do was ask him to leave off the rice. He suggested extra greens instead. Excellent. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!   #40   Apr 29, '16, 11:21 am Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Bonnie There's a low carb food cart (& restaurant) in Portland - the Cultured Caveman. I'm definitely trying that next time I'm there! A couple years ago I ate at the food cart hub (or whatever it's called) in SE Portland. One cart had the closest to low carb - all I had to do was ask him to leave off the rice. He suggested extra greens instead. Excellent. Oh, Portland has a bunch of really good ones about a block or so from the central library. There's a small park-ish area where a whole bunch of them congregate together. I carefully avoid all of them here in Seattle, though. The ones here seem pretty sketchy to me. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #41   Apr 29, '16, 11:22 am tomarin Senior Member   Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 7,538 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early I was just looking into the connection between health and 'processed' meats (meaning cured or salted meat such as bacon, ham, pastrami, salami, etc. ) and what I found was that there's a small connection between eating processed meats and colo-rectal cancer, about 1% difference. However colo-rectal cancer is a pretty rare form of cancer. __________________ If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137   #42   Apr 29, '16, 11:32 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,710 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by GaryTaylor Good observation, I would say "Subway" wasn't it nor is "Mc Donalds" here. Theres a real need for a fast food here with a healthy diet Its also a matter of acquiring taste, I know that sounds cliche but its true as with a veggie or fish diet. I still had to force myself to eat peas yet in time have become quite fond of pea soup. However, this also becomes a good habit. I went from telling mom I really don't "want" to eat the fri fish to basically living off it as an adult. If I have to pick a primary food source to survive fish and veggies would be the start of it. Lilly outlined a very good diet above and I think in general women are more inclined to do this, though it does seem out of need and health men catch up. One does not have to eschew red meat in order to eat in a healthy manner. Grass-fed beef has the same Omega-3s and such as fish does. It's only because feeder cattle in the U.S. go through a period of grain feeding which puts a lot of fat of a different sort in the meat that it can be unhealthy. Aussies, I understand, prefer grass-fed beef, and that's what you'll get in Australia. It's really only habit in America that the higher quality beef is grain-fed. And, too, the conversion ratio of grain to meat is very favorable, which makes it profitable. American grain is inexpensive. I eat only grass-fed beef. It's different. It's a much deeper and more brilliant red color because it isn't laced through with fat. It's more "stand-up", not flabby. And the flavor is more intense. It can be less tender unless the age of the animal is just right and it has been allowed to gain on really good pasture. Personally, I would say a dinner of grass-fed steak with unpeeled spring potatoes, a couple of slices of fresh, sun-ripened tomato and a helping of steamed, fresh green beans is as healthy a meal as any of us is ever likely to get. Well, I'll admit I would probably put some butter on the beans. But if you're not already obese, there's nothing wrong with butter. Don't want to make myself hungry here, so I'll quit.   #43   Apr 29, '16, 11:41 am tomarin Senior Member   Join Date: April 25, 2007 Posts: 7,538 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner One does not have to eschew red meat in order to eat in a healthy manner. Grass-fed beef has the same Omega-3s and such as fish does. It's only because feeder cattle in the U.S. go through a period of grain feeding which puts a lot of fat of a different sort in the meat that it can be unhealthy. Aussies, I understand, prefer grass-fed beef, and that's what you'll get in Australia. It's really only habit in America that the higher quality beef is grain-fed. And, too, the conversion ratio of grain to meat is very favorable, which makes it profitable. American grain is inexpensive. I eat only grass-fed beef. It's different. It's a much deeper and more brilliant red color because it isn't laced through with fat. It's more "stand-up", not flabby. And the flavor is more intense. It can be less tender unless the age of the animal is just right and it has been allowed to gain on really good pasture. Personally, I would say a dinner of grass-fed steak with unpeeled spring potatoes, a couple of slices of fresh, sun-ripened tomato and a helping of steamed, fresh green beans is as healthy a meal as any of us is ever likely to get. Well, I'll admit I would probably put some butter on the beans. But if you're not already obese, there's nothing wrong with butter. Don't want to make myself hungry here, so I'll quit. Is the main difference between grass-fed and grain-fed beef the amount of fat marbling then? I thought it was precisely fat which makes food flavorful ...? Bison and venison for example are game meats and therefore they have little fat on them, and they can be bland if you don't add fat to them. I would have thought based on this that the leaner the meat, the less flavorful it would be? __________________ If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137   #44   Apr 29, '16, 2:08 pm Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by tomarin Is the main difference between grass-fed and grain-fed beef the amount of fat marbling then? I thought it was precisely fat which makes food flavorful ...? Bison and venison for example are game meats and therefore they have little fat on them, and they can be bland if you don't add fat to them. I would have thought based on this that the leaner the meat, the less flavorful it would be? Fat does add flavor to many foods, but there is a gourmet hamburger restaurant here that only uses local grass-fed beef, and oh, my! It's very good! I still don't eat it, though, still stick with my salmon and tuna, fruit and vegetables. And nothing fried!   #45   Apr 29, '16, 5:27 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,710 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by tomarin Is the main difference between grass-fed and grain-fed beef the amount of fat marbling then? I thought it was precisely fat which makes food flavorful ...? Bison and venison for example are game meats and therefore they have little fat on them, and they can be bland if you don't add fat to them. I would have thought based on this that the leaner the meat, the less flavorful it would be? I'm not saying there is no difference in the flavor. There is. But we do get used to the taste of fat. I think it's acquired. If you notice, it's very common for children to carefully trim all the fat off a piece of meat before eating it. Adults are more likely to eat fat and all, including fat around the edges and within the meat itself. Grass fed beef, to me, has more of a beefy taste to it, whereas a well-marbled steak tastes like grease to me. I think one grows used to either. I recall a line from Tom Wolfe's book "A Man in Full". Very funny book. But there is a scene in which a very svelte guest of a wealthy developer commends the cook on the extremely flavorful salad and asks the cook what she did to make it taste so good. "Anything tastes good with bacon grease on it" replied the cook to the guest's horror. I shouldn't say the following, lest people recoil in horror. I work with cattle a lot, including on hot days. When working with cattle in a corral on a hot day, that beef smell pervades the air, and is, to me, enticing. I have never bitten a live steer, and won't. But to me, grass-fed tastes more like fresh cattle smell on a warm day, whereas grain-fed just plain tastes like grease. Interestingly, even the little bit of fat on a grass-fed steak is a different color from that of grain-fed. It's not pearly white and opaque, but kind of yellow and slightly translucent. I don't know why. Grass fed meat is scarlet red, not pink. I do know why that is. I hate venison. It tastes like wetland weed smell to me. Buffalo is okay, not very different from beef. But of all of it, the best is actually from a young bull between the ages of one year and 18 months. Yes I know, everybody thinks meat from steers is best. It's good, and somewhat more tender, but it's not as flavorful. And, to me, Hereford beats Angus for flavor, despite what everybody says, and "black baldy" (a cross of the two) beats them both. Apr 29, '16, 7:44 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner The article never says what additives are causing this or how one might avoid it. They talk about "cheap" red meat (as opposed, I guess to more expensive red meat) as being the culprit. Are we talking about highly processed stuff here, like some kind of sausages or products like Spam? Or are we talking about a steak that didn't cost as much as a really good one? 10/26/15: Quote: Processed meats, including bacon (sorry!), are cancer hazards, WHO (World Health Organization) says — and red meat probably is too: PARIS — It’s official: Bacon, ham, hot dogs and other processed meats can lead to colon, stomach and other cancers — and red meat is probably cancer-causing, too . . . The researchers defined processed meat as anything transformed to improve its flavor or to preserve it, including sausages, canned meat, beef jerky and anything smoked. They defined red meat as "all types of mammalian muscle meat, such as beef, veal, pork, lamb, mutton, horse and goat." The report said grilling, pan-frying or other high-temperature methods of cooking red meat produce the highest amounts of chemicals suspected to cause cancer. http://news.nationalpost.com/health/..._lsa=04a5-87d2 __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #47   Apr 29, '16, 8:01 pm Theo520 Regular Member   Join Date: August 8, 2014 Posts: 5,532 Religion: Christian Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early How does Kobi beef compare, or veal in general? Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I'm not saying there is no difference in the flavor. There is. But we do get used to the taste of fat. I think it's acquired. If you notice, it's very common for children to carefully trim all the fat off a piece of meat before eating it. Adults are more likely to eat fat and all, including fat around the edges and within the meat itself. Grass fed beef, to me, has more of a beefy taste to it, whereas a well-marbled steak tastes like grease to me. I think one grows used to either. I recall a line from Tom Wolfe's book "A Man in Full". Very funny book. But there is a scene in which a very svelte guest of a wealthy developer commends the cook on the extremely flavorful salad and asks the cook what she did to make it taste so good. "Anything tastes good with bacon grease on it" replied the cook to the guest's horror. I shouldn't say the following, lest people recoil in horror. I work with cattle a lot, including on hot days. When working with cattle in a corral on a hot day, that beef smell pervades the air, and is, to me, enticing. I have never bitten a live steer, and won't. But to me, grass-fed tastes more like fresh cattle smell on a warm day, whereas grain-fed just plain tastes like grease. Interestingly, even the little bit of fat on a grass-fed steak is a different color from that of grain-fed. It's not pearly white and opaque, but kind of yellow and slightly translucent. I don't know why. Grass fed meat is scarlet red, not pink. I do know why that is. I hate venison. It tastes like wetland weed smell to me. Buffalo is okay, not very different from beef. But of all of it, the best is actually from a young bull between the ages of one year and 18 months. Yes I know, everybody thinks meat from steers is best. It's good, and somewhat more tender, but it's not as flavorful. And, to me, Hereford beats Angus for flavor, despite what everybody says, and "black baldy" (a cross of the two) beats them both. __________________ FACTS MATTER!   #48   Apr 29, '16, 9:32 pm Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Pelosi once mused about how much money she could save the government health care system through making free contraception part of government benefits. Just think of all the savings that Scotland is making through feeding net users of health care all this cheap red meat? Thirty years less of benefits is nothing to be sneezed at either, expecially coming at the tail end of working years.   #49   Apr 29, '16, 11:34 pm liturgyluver Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2011 Posts: 2,393 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl1958 Pelosi once mused about how much money she could save the government health care system through making free contraception part of government benefits. Just think of all the savings that Scotland is making through feeding net users of health care all this cheap red meat? Thirty years less of benefits is nothing to be sneezed at either, expecially coming at the tail end of working years. Easily offset by the more prosperous areas in Glasgow where people have some of the highest life expectancies in the world.   #50   Apr 30, '16, 7:15 am Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by liturgyluver Easily offset by the more prosperous areas in Glasgow where people have some of the highest life expectancies in the world. Net payers and those with money do not need to be rationalized to the same degree as those who are net users of the system.   #51   Apr 30, '16, 8:48 am Roselle Regular Member   Join Date: December 24, 2010 Posts: 853 Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Bonnie Dr. Kendrick is great! He mostly writes about heart disease, which is helpful for me as husband had heart bypass surgery 16 years ago. I'm a T2 diabetic & I get really irked at the the advice of the ADA. Most nutritionists will tell diabetics to eat a minimum of 45g carbs at every meal. I'm sure they are assuming that all diabetics are on meds. I'm not (my body doesn't like the meds I can afford) so I don't even eat 45g in a day. And I'm doing quite well, thank you! Agree! Dr. Kendrick does write a wonderful health blog. He makes one think about health problems. I enjoy how he presents health issue but often with a new spin on them that I had not thought about it. Glad you have been able to control your type 2 diabetes with diet. With Dr. Kendrick's writing it makes me wonder if the diet helps diabetes 2 due to it not only helping prevent high blood sugar spikes but also low blood sugar. Then again something entirely different could be going on. Along those lines I found Dr. Walter Kempner's rice diet for preventing and reversing type 2 diabetes fascinating.   #52   Apr 30, '16, 8:53 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer 10/26/15: http://news.nationalpost.com/health/..._lsa=04a5-87d2 For sure red meat causes cancer and heart disease.   #53   Apr 30, '16, 9:02 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Bonnie Um...no. Good or poor health is more than just one food. My husband (a heart surgery & cancer survivor) will be 81 next month. He's a meat & veggie eater (pretty much quit grains a couple years ago), still works part time, is building me a barn almost single-handed, and has energy to spare. Don't think the meat's going to kill him. I'm very happy to read he's doing great now, but he probably wouldn't have needed that heart surgery or gotten cancer if he'd not eaten the red meat or things with preservatives. There is no heart disease on either side of my family, and we stick to tuna, salmon, grains, and fresh, organic fruits and vegetables. Three people who smoked did get lung cancer, otherwise, no cancer, either.   #54   Apr 30, '16, 9:03 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Roselle Glad you have been able to control your type 2 diabetes with diet. With Dr. Kendrick's writing it makes me wonder if the diet helps diabetes 2 due to it not only helping prevent high blood sugar spikes but also low blood sugar. I suspect that most of the people who have blood sugars that are too low are either T1s on insulin or T2s on insulin or other meds. I had a couple episodes of hypoglycemia when on meds. I was also told to eat often & never skip meals. But without meds that's not a problem. My bg is usually "normal" now & I usually eat only 2 meals a day. I often go 14-18 hours without food & there's never a problem. As I understand it, the body will produce glucose from the liver (hope I've got the right organ there!). I don't even have the dawn phenomena any more. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!   #55   Apr 30, '16, 9:11 am Bonnie Regular Member   Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 4,771 Religion: Catholic since 1976! Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans I'm very happy to read he's doing great now, but he probably wouldn't have needed that heart surgery or gotten cancer if he'd not eaten the red meat or things with preservatives. There is no heart disease on either side of my family, and we stick to tuna, salmon, grains, and fresh, organic fruits and vegetables. Three people who smoked did get lung cancer, otherwise, no cancer, either. It wasn't diet related - it was genetic. Heart disease runs in his family, and prostate cancer seems to afflict men without regard to diet. At the time we rarely ate processed meat, nor did we eat a lot of fresh meat. I was a fan of Laurel's Kitchen - we ate a lot of whole grains & beans. Except for some butter, we ate low-fat foods. Now we eat low carb/medium protein/high fat - and we still don't eat much processed meat, it's too high in both carbs & price. We're both healthier, and I've lost weight. It works for us. __________________ God bless, Bonnie, OFS Opportunity Farm Northeast Washington "While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10 Catholic since '76!   #56   Apr 30, '16, 11:05 am didymus Veteran Member Radio Club Member   Join Date: April 5, 2005 Posts: 10,387 Religion: Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7004266.html The city of Glasgow has long been notorious for the astonishing gap in life expectancy between rich and poor [insert full stop here]. Men who can expect to die at the age of just 54 live within a few miles of those who will survive well into their 80s. Now researchers believe they have found a key reason for this disparity – the regular consumption of cheap, processed meat, particularly by the city’s poorest men. How about poverty shortens your lifespan? The poor eat less nutritious diets & have other unhealthy habits, partly dues to lack of education, partly by personal choice. Way back in the 30s Orwell wrote a book titled Road to Wigan Pier & noted that the poor ate horrible diets of cheap "comfort foods". __________________ It's not hoarding if it's BOOKS.   #57   Apr 30, '16, 11:16 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Cheap red meat helps to kill off Glasgow's poorest men 30 years early Quote: Originally Posted by didymus How about poverty shortens your lifespan? The poor eat less nutritious diets & have other unhealthy habits, partly dues to lack of education, partly by personal choice. Way back in the 30s Orwell wrote a book titled Road to Wigan Pier & noted that the poor ate horrible diets of cheap "comfort foods". Agree. Poverty shortens your lifespan in many ways. But Americans with no money problems who are addicted to sugary, high-fat foods and no exercise are courting danger as well.