Re: Hillary Clinton Thread

Apr 19, '16, 6:15 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by zz912 They go bankrupt because they've never handled large amounts of money before, and don't know how to control it or themselves. They don't know how to say "no" to all the sycophants, they don't know how to handle the pressure and stress of that much responsibility. A person walking into a gym for the first time doesn't put 300lbs on a bar and try to bench press it. They have to slowly work out with smaller weights to get strong enough to control the weight and handle it. It is the same with money. If you suddenly have a huge sum of money fall into your lap, you will most likely be crushed by it. It takes a lot of training to handle such large sums of money. One has to wonder at least a bit about this. It's pretty well established that wealth generation is fundamentally premised on living below one's means over a significant period of time. Some do that, and some don't. The question is why. As mentioned previously, there is no particular correlation between income and wealth accumulation. Many who make the "big bucks" spend them all and more on consumer goods of one kind or another. Some who make modest incomes surprise everyone at death when their estates are discovered to be a million dollars or more. I do think "practice" matters in all of that; good habits of life. But isn't "practice" at anything dependent on one's state of mind and his character?

#1997   Apr 19, '16, 6:16 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by zz912 No one needs to be reminded of Bill being in the White House. I wonder if Hillary is going to feel comfortable sitting at THAT desk. I think she will be VERY comfortable at that desk. She has had a lot of experience selling influence for money, and the Oval Office will give her opportunities much larger than she has had in the past. She's good at it.

#1998   Apr 19, '16, 6:49 am

estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I think she will be VERY comfortable at that desk. She has had a lot of experience selling influence for money, and the Oval Office will give her opportunities much larger than she has had in the past. She's good at it. She might even let Bill continue to use the Butler's pantry

#1999   Apr 19, '16, 6:54 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob She might even let Bill continue to use the Butler's pantry Ewwwww.

#2000   Apr 19, '16, 6:59 am

stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner One has to wonder at least a bit about this. It's pretty well established that wealth generation is fundamentally premised on living below one's means over a significant period of time. Some do that, and some don't. The question is why. As mentioned previously, there is no particular correlation between income and wealth accumulation. Many who make the "big bucks" spend them all and more on consumer goods of one kind or another. Some who make modest incomes surprise everyone at death when their estates are discovered to be a million dollars or more. I do think "practice" matters in all of that; good habits of life. But isn't "practice" at anything dependent on one's state of mind and his character? Living below one's means can be a way of wealth generation, but it is not the only way of wealth generation. I am not sure that Bill Gates became wealthy because of steady habits of spending less than they earned. Mainly they took big risks and hit it big. In that aspect, they are not that different from lottery winners. In addition, nobody has established that there is no correlation between income and wealth. You have speculated that there is no correlation, but nobody has presented any data one way or another. Part of the problem is the question of how does one define income.

#2001   Apr 19, '16, 7:31 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Living below one's means can be a way of wealth generation, but it is not the only way of wealth generation. I am not sure that Bill Gates became wealthy because of steady habits of spending less than they earned. Mainly they took big risks and hit it big. In that aspect, they are not that different from lottery winners. In addition, nobody has established that there is no correlation between income and wealth. You have speculated that there is no correlation, but nobody has presented any data one way or another. Part of the problem is the question of how does one define income. It wasn't speculation, though the information would be considered outdated at this point. I believe I first read it in "The Millionaire Next Door". That work has been critiqued, not because the critics doubt the accuracy of it at the time it was written, but because critics assert that times have changed and it's no longer possible to start new businesses, underconsume, get the returns, etc. But there is no shortage of those who counsel patient small investing over a long period in order to generate considerable wealth. Necessarily that requires underconsumption, and consuming all or more of one's income, however high, will never get a person there. I will also admit that much of my thinking has been influenced by the dreaded "anecdotal evidence". I see hundreds of loan applications annually, and there really is no correlation between income and wealth in them. I see plenty of people making $100,000 and more annually who don't own anything other than some expensive toys and a pretty significant house. I also see people with much lower annual incomes who have accumulated a surprising amount of wealth, relatively speaking. Some of those are young people. I think the difference between most wealth accumulators and garden variety big spenders is fundamentally psychological. There are certainly exceptions; people whose wealth accumulation has been explosive because of real business genius or a combination of moderate business genius and remarkable opportunity. I see those too, and know enough of them personally to understand how they did what they did. But outliers like them, or like Gates, do not make a rule.

#2002   Apr 19, '16, 8:07 am

stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner It wasn't speculation, though the information would be considered outdated at this point. I believe I first read it in "The Millionaire Next Door". That work has been critiqued, not because the critics doubt the accuracy of it at the time it was written, but because critics assert that times have changed and it's no longer possible to start new businesses, underconsume, get the returns, etc. Actually, the problem with their methodology is the sample they use. They use more of a convenience sample it is not really representative of the population as a whole, so it is dangerous to generalize to the entire population from their work. Quote: But there is no shortage of those who counsel patient small investing over a long period in order to generate considerable wealth. Necessarily that requires underconsumption, and consuming all or more of one's income, however high, will never get a person there. Certainly it can be a path to wealth, but it is not the only path to wealth. Quote: I will also admit that much of my thinking has been influenced by the dreaded "anecdotal evidence". I see hundreds of loan applications annually, and there really is no correlation between income and wealth in them. I see plenty of people making $100,000 and more annually who don't own anything other than some expensive toys and a pretty significant house. I also see people with much lower annual incomes who have accumulated a surprising amount of wealth, relatively speaking. Some of those are young people. I agree with you that we need to be very skeptical about generalizing from anecdotal evidence. And of course, the big problem is how do we define income. Quote: I think the difference between most wealth accumulators and garden variety big spenders is fundamentally psychological. There are certainly exceptions; people whose wealth accumulation has been explosive because of real business genius or a combination of moderate business genius and remarkable opportunity. I see those too, and know enough of them personally to understand how they did what they did. But outliers like them, or like Gates, do not make a rule. Income is affected by two main factors. Decisions of the individual and others and then the second component is pure luck. Oftentimes we conflate the two, since it can be difficult to differentiate the two.

#2003   Apr 19, '16, 8:40 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Certainly it can be a path to wealth, but it is not the only path to wealth. I agree with you that we need to be very skeptical about generalizing from anecdotal evidence. And of course, the big problem is how do we define income. Income is affected by two main factors. Decisions of the individual and others and then the second component is pure luck. Oftentimes we conflate the two, since it can be difficult to differentiate the two. No publication is ever without its critics. I never claimed that living below one's means is the only path to wealth. At a point, anecdotal evidence becomes pretty persuasive. I have seen thousands upon thousands of loan applications during my lifetime, and there is no observable correlation between income and wealth. An exception can be made, though not necessarily, for high earners who have "forced savings" plans like 401Ks that they leave alone and do not cash out or borrow against. But I have also seen a lot of borrowing against those. As between decisions of the individual and sheer luck, it is difficult to attribute a whole lot of success to the latter unless one takes a very wide view of "luck", e.g. the country one is born in, the mores of one's parents, their educational level, that of the subject, the influences on his/her life, recognizing an opportunity of a fairly ordinary sort that others can see but do not take advantage of, etc, etc.

#2004   Apr 19, '16, 8:43 am

Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,022 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans Clinton and Trump are expected to win in New York today: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...victories.html No surprise there. No surprise at all, Lily. I won't exactly be surprised though if it's closer than most polls suggest. Given the massive crowds Bernie has turned out although as I will get to in a minute, not everyone in those crowds are necessarily able to vote today, and the polls meant nothing in MI. But NY is a closed primary state where only registered party members can vote in the primary and previously registered voters had to switch their registration to Democratic or Republican by last Oct. That should help Hillary since unless they are first time voters, anyone voting today in either party's primary today had to be registered as a member of the party 6 mos ago or they can't vote. Just ask Ivanka and Eric Trump why they aren't voting for their father. Apparently they were either independents or Democrats and didn't switch by last Oct. Only first time voters had until last month to register and declare. Everyone else had to have their house in order 6 mos ago. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)

#2005   Apr 19, '16, 9:00 am

stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner No publication is ever without its critics. When people use bad methodology it is appropriate to point that out. The danger is when people use bad methodology to get to a result that confirms people's biases and then people the flawed results to suggest that there is some generalization that can be made. It really reflects a lack of critical thinking. Quote: I never claimed that living below one's means is the only path to wealth. True. You did claim that there is no correlation between income and wealth. But as you admit, you have no good data to back that up. You just have anecdotal data, which you admit is flawed. Quote: At a point, anecdotal evidence becomes pretty persuasive. I have seen thousands upon thousands of loan applications during my lifetime, and there is no observable correlation between income and wealth. An exception can be made, though not necessarily, for high earners who have "forced savings" plans like 401Ks that they leave alone and do not cash out or borrow against. But I have also seen a lot of borrowing against those. In my profession we prefer hard data. I am sure we could get the answer if we looked at the Panel Study on Income Dynamics and traced households over a couple of decades. I would be very surprised if the PSID showed zero or negative correlation between income and wealth. But I will admit, in the absence of data we cannot say anything one way or another. Quote: As between decisions of the individual and sheer luck, it is difficult to attribute a whole lot of success to the latter unless one takes a very wide view of "luck", e.g. the country one is born in, the mores of one's parents, their educational level, that of the subject, the influences on his/her life, recognizing an opportunity of a fairly ordinary sort that others can see but do not take advantage of, etc, etc. Where one is born can have a big impact on economic outcomes. That is certainly not deterministic, but random. If you are born to parents who went to Harvard, you probably have more educational opportunities than someone whose parents can read. Those are definitely luck factors. That does not mean that one cannot rise above bad circumstances, many indeed do. It is probably better to be a lucky Harvard legacy than an honor student at a directional state school.

#2006   Apr 19, '16, 9:12 am

Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe No surprise at all, Lily. I won't exactly be surprised though if it's closer than most polls suggest. Given the massive crowds Bernie has turned out although as I will get to in a minute, not everyone in those crowds are necessarily able to vote today, and the polls meant nothing in MI. But NY is a closed primary state where only registered party members can vote in the primary and previously registered voters had to switch their registration to Democratic or Republican by last Oct. That should help Hillary since unless they are first time voters, anyone voting today in either party's primary today had to be registered as a member of the party 6 mos ago or they can't vote. Just ask Ivanka and Eric Trump why they aren't voting for their father. Apparently they were either independents or Democrats and didn't switch by last Oct. Only first time voters had until last month to register and declare. Everyone else had to have their house in order 6 mos ago. I expect Trump to win big, Sy, but I expect the numbers for Hillary and Bernie to be fairly close. If she'd win by a double-digit margin, that would be a surprise.

#2007   Apr 19, '16, 12:40 pm

Robert Bay Moderator   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 32,561 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread MODERATOR NOTE This thread is wandering. Please stay on the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign. __________________ Robert Bay, Moderator Forum Rules Never let evil talk pass your lips; say only the good things men need to hear, things that will really help them. (Ephesians 4:29) Moderator direction can be appealed by sending an email to: forumadmin@catholic.com

#2008   Apr 19, '16, 7:03 pm

Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread A huge win for Hillary Clinton in New York tonight, too. Bigger than even she thought it would be. About 60/40 for both Clinton and Trump.

#2009   Apr 19, '16, 8:30 pm

Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,022 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans A huge win for Hillary Clinton in New York tonight, too. Bigger than even she thought it would be. About 60/40 for both Clinton and Trump. I thought a great speech by her as well following her huge win. As a Sanders supporter, I liked how she spoke about there being more uniting the two camps than there is dividing us against Trump or Cruz. She definitely gave us insight as to how she intends to campaign against Trump or Cruz and win a general election. And I liked it when she spoke about Erica Smegielski, the daughter of the Sandy Hook Elem School principal, and Erica's efforts towards reasonable common sense gun laws. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)

#2010   Apr 19, '16, 8:39 pm

gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic

Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe I thought a great speech by her as well following her huge win. As a Sanders supporter, I liked how she spoke about there being more uniting the two camps than there is dividing us against Trump or Cruz. She definitely gave us insight as to how she intends to campaign against Trump or Cruz and win a general election. And I liked it when she spoke about Erica Smegielski, the daughter of the Sandy Hook Elem School principal, and Erica's efforts towards reasonable common sense gun laws. Agreed. I voted for Bernie today but I appreciated her speech.      Apr 19, '16, 9:06 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,022 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Agreed. I voted for Bernie today but I appreciated her speech. I saw exit polls showing about 85% of Sanders supporters in NY are already saying they would or would probably vote for her in Nov and it was similar the other way around. And it's only Apr. Not overly surprising I guess considering NY is a blue state but I thought it bode well for the 2 camps eventually uniting. __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #2012   Apr 19, '16, 9:48 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe I saw exit polls showing about 85% of Sanders supporters in NY are already saying they would or would probably vote for her in Nov and it was similar the other way around. And it's only Apr. Not overly surprising I guess considering NY is a blue state but I thought it bode well for the 2 camps eventually uniting. But Hillary is not qualified to be President according to Mr. Sanders.   #2013   Apr 19, '16, 10:05 pm Sy Noe Senior Member   Join Date: October 7, 2013 Posts: 8,022 Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone But Hillary is not qualified to be President according to Mr. Sanders. Incorrect. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...o-real-issues/ __________________ "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time." "The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong." (Pope Francis)   #2014   Apr 19, '16, 10:20 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Sy Noe Incorrect. Sanders may have changed his mind, but he did say that Hillary is not qualified to be President: Here is the proof: http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politi...ton-qualified/ http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...esident-221666 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-s...-be-president/ http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...sident-n552141 http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sa...d-be-president http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/v...resident-video etc.   #2015   Apr 19, '16, 10:44 pm Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone Sanders may have changed his mind, but he did say that Hillary is not qualified to be President: Here is the proof: http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politi...ton-qualified/ http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...esident-221666 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-s...-be-president/ http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...sident-n552141 http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sa...d-be-president http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/v...resident-video etc. And subsequent to that, he corrected himself and said he didn't mean it. Sy posted the link. You must have missed it. He said, "Of course she's qualified." Clinton responded by saying she'd take Sanders over any of the Repubs. any day. http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-d...alified-221709 "Bernie Sanders reversed himself Friday, tempering his vicious two-day attack line that Hillary Clinton is not "qualified" for the presidency. “Of course” the former secretary of state is qualified for the White House, Sanders said during a town hall on NBC’s “Today.” “On her worst day she would be an infinitely better president than either of the Republican candidates,” he said, heaping praise on his opponent in a similar fashion to what Clinton said the prior day in response to the Vermont senator doubling down on his sharp rhetoric." Democrats always unite behind the nominee. Clinton even campaigned for Obama in 2008. Sanders would campaign for her, and urge his supporters to vote for her. I voted for Bernie, but the second Hillary secures the nomination, my vote is hers.   #2016   Apr 19, '16, 10:54 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans And subsequent to that, he corrected himself and said he didn't mean it. Sy posted the link. You must have missed it. He said, "Of course she's qualified." Clinton responded by saying she'd take Sanders over any of the Repubs. any day. http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-d...alified-221709 "Bernie Sanders reversed himself Friday, tempering his vicious two-day attack line that Hillary Clinton is not "qualified" for the presidency. “Of course” the former secretary of state is qualified for the White House, Sanders said during a town hall on NBC’s “Today.” “On her worst day she would be an infinitely better president than either of the Republican candidates,” he said, heaping praise on his opponent in a similar fashion to what Clinton said the prior day in response to the Vermont senator doubling down on his sharp rhetoric." Democrats always unite behind the nominee. Clinton even campaigned for Obama in 2008. Sanders would campaign for her, and urge his supporters to vote for her. I voted for Bernie, but the second Hillary secures the nomination, my vote is hers. He is flip flopping. At one time he said she was not qualified, later he said she was. How can someone who flip flops on such a serious issue be trusted? If he flip flopped on that, how do we know that he won't flip flop on many of his promises, such as breaking up the big banks, which Paul Krugman said is not feasible?   #2017   Apr 19, '16, 10:56 pm Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone He is flip flopping. At one time he said she was not qualified, later he said she was. How can someone who flip flops on such a serious issue be trusted? Same as Trump.   #2018   Apr 19, '16, 10:57 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread There's no reason to vote for Mrs. Clinton because even if she got elected, she would not be able to get any legislation passed with the current status quo of the Congress, so supporters of her candidacy can forget about the Federal Minimum Wage or a Federal Living Wage and ditto for stricter Climate Change Environmental legislation being passed. She could maybe directly raise Federal Government employees' pay for those Federal employees who make less than $15.00 an hour but beyond that, the average person would not see any Federally set wage. So, there's no reason to vote for Mrs. Clinton. It would just be the same gridlock that we have with the current Democratic Administration. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #2019   Apr 19, '16, 11:02 pm Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer There's no reason to vote for Mrs. Clinton because even if she got elected, she would not be able to get any legislation passed with the current status quo of the Congress, so supporters of her candidacy can forget about the Federal Minimum Wage or a Federal Living Wage and ditto for stricter Climate Change Environmental legislation being passed. She could maybe directly raise Federal Government employees' pay for those Federal employees who make less than $15.00 an hour but beyond that, the average person would not see any Federally set wage. So, there's no reason to vote for Mrs. Clinton. It would just be the same gridlock that we have with the current Democratic Administration. Off course she could get legislation passed. She'd be an incoming president. If the Repub. Party didn't work with her, they'd implode. And when election time rolls around, the Democrats will control Congress once again. Hillary has the African-American vote, the Hispanic vote, every ethnicity vote, and tonight she proved she has the average white American vote as well. Her base is broad; she will be all but unbeatable in November. And Bernie will support her. Last edited by Lily Bernans; Apr 19, '16 at 11:16 pm.   #2020   Apr 20, '16, 2:39 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans Off course she could get legislation passed. She'd be an incoming president. If the Repub. Party didn't work with her, they'd implode. And when election time rolls around, the Democrats will control Congress once again. Hillary has the African-American vote, the Hispanic vote, every ethnicity vote, and tonight she proved she has the average white American vote as well. Her base is broad; she will be all but unbeatable in November. And Bernie will support her. The republicans didn't work with Obama and that gained them both the house and senate. What would b different about Hillary.   #2021   Apr 20, '16, 7:06 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The republicans didn't work with Obama and that gained them both the house and senate. What would b different about Hillary. People are sick of Washington playing the "politics game." The "I won't work with your party" childishness. If the Republicans wouldn't work with Hillary, they'd vote them out of office. And, not one Republican voted for the ACA, yet it passed. The Republican Party is already is tatters. If they want to continue game playing, they are going to destroy it completely.   #2022   Apr 20, '16, 7:14 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans People are sick of Washington playing the "politics game." The "I won't work with your party" childishness. If the Republicans wouldn't work with Hillary, they'd vote them out of office. Is that my republicans gained 13 seats in the house during the last election?   #2023   Apr 20, '16, 7:17 am mary bobo Veteran Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10,604 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Is that my republicans gained 13 seats in the house during the last election? I don't understand why some folks can't understand that there are fundamental differences between the goals and methods of the two parties. Why should one party bow down to a president whose policies they do not agree with? That goes for both parties. __________________ Praying for all CAF intentions.   #2024   Apr 20, '16, 7:26 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by mary bobo I don't understand why some folks can't understand that there are fundamental differences between the goals and methods of the two parties. Why should one party bow down to a president whose policies they do not agree with? That goes for both parties. No one I heard ever said anyone should "bow down." This isn't a monarchy, thank goodness, that simply siphons off the taxpayers' money for foibles and baubles. However, if the two parties don't work together, the US is going to continue its downhill slide. The two parties need to learn to cooperate so the US doesn't turn into a metaphorical garbage dump. The rest of the world already laughs at us.   #2025   Apr 20, '16, 7:26 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by mary bobo I don't understand why some folks can't understand that there are fundamental differences between the goals and methods of the two parties. Why should one party bow down to a president whose policies they do not agree with? That goes for both parties. Barrack Obama has proven that he has no ability to work with the republicans, I am not sure how Hillary is going to be any different. She has no experience working with members of the other party, so we are supposed to trust that she is going to magically become politically skilled?    Apr 20, '16, 7:30 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Barrack Obama has proven that he has no ability to work with the republicans, I am not sure how Hillary is going to be any different. She has no experience working with members of the other party, so we are supposed to trust that she is going to magically become politically skilled? I think both are very politically skilled. Obama's accomplishments: http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/ Hillary's accomplishments: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/9...ccomplishments And that's just for starters.   #2027   Apr 20, '16, 7:31 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans No one I heard ever said anyone should "bow down." This isn't a monarchy, thank goodness, that simply siphons off the taxpayers' money for foibles and baubles. However, if the two parties don't work together, the US is going to continue its downhill slide. The two parties need to learn to cooperate so the US doesn't turn into a metaphorical garbage dump. The rest of the world already laughs at us. Since Hillary has been part of the problem, how is she going to change so that she will cooperate with the republicans?   #2028   Apr 20, '16, 7:32 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans No one I heard ever said anyone should "bow down." This isn't a monarchy, thank goodness, that simply siphons off the taxpayers' money for foibles and baubles. However, if the two parties don't work together, the US is going to continue its downhill slide. The two parties need to learn to cooperate so the US doesn't turn into a metaphorical garbage dump. The rest of the world already laughs at us. You mean that part of the world that doesn't have children and allows Islamic radicals to molest its citizenry with near impunity, then imports more? Let them laugh while they're still able to muster the energy. Governmental paralysis is far better than the kinds of things Obama would do to this country if he fully had his way. And it's likely to be so with Hillary Clinton as well, unless congress finds a way to "buy her off". It might. A billion dollar one-time speaking fee paid to Bill Clinton might save multiple billions in the long run.   #2029   Apr 20, '16, 7:33 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 Since Hillary has been part of the problem, how is she going to change so that she will cooperate with the republicans? How has she been part of the problem? I don't see that.   #2030   Apr 20, '16, 7:34 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans How has she been part of the problem? I don't see that. She was part of the Obama administration that refused to work with republicans. She was a democrat senator who refused to work with republicans. So what does she plan on doing differently as president than what she has done her whole life?   #2031   Apr 20, '16, 7:44 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 She was part of the Obama administration that refused to work with republicans. She was a democrat senator who refused to work with republicans. So what does she plan on doing differently as president than what she has done her whole life? I'm not one of her advisers, so I don't know exactly what she'd do. What would Trump or Cruz do? They are hated by their own party. The truth is that whoever is president, America remains the same, more or less. People are sick of that. I think that's why Trump is so popular, but they don't stop to consider the fact that he couldn't implement all of his wild ideas.   #2032   Apr 20, '16, 7:49 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans I'm not one of her advisers, so I don't know exactly what she'd do. What would Trump or Cruz do? They are hated by their own party. You were the one who claimed that she can work with the republicans, so now you are changing your story? Will she be able to work with the republicans or not? Quote: The truth is that whoever is president, America remains the same, more or less. People are sick of that. I think that's why Trump is so popular, but they don't stop to consider the fact that he couldn't implement all of his wild ideas. Barrack Obama couldn't implement all of his wild ideas either, not president can.   #2033   Apr 20, '16, 7:53 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 You were the one who claimed that she can work with the republicans, so now you are changing your story? Will she be able to work with the republicans or not? Barrack Obama couldn't implement all of his wild ideas either, not president can. Every president has been able to work with the other side. No president has been rendered totally impotent for four years, and, as I said, if the Repubs. won't work with her, their party will implode, and the Democrats will retake Congress, which will probably happen anyway. Obama has many, many accomplishments. See the link above.   #2034   Apr 20, '16, 7:56 am stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans Every president has been able to work with the other side. No president has been rendered totally impotent for four years, and, as I said, if the Repubs. won't work with her, their party will implode, and the Democrats will retake Congress, which will probably happen anyway. Obama has many, many accomplishments. See the link above. So, if we elect Hillary we will get business as usual? That is not very inspiring. You would think that the democrats could come up with better than that.   #2035   Apr 20, '16, 8:03 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 So, if we elect Hillary we will get business as usual? That is not very inspiring. You would think that the democrats could come up with better than that. No matter who we elect, Democrat or Republican, we'll get "business as usual." Nothing ever changes in the US. The only big change we've had in our history is the abolition of slavery and the legalization of abortion. What makes you think things would change now? Trump could never implement his outlandish plans. Cruz won't work with anyone, he's the "It's my way or the highway" guy. Kasich is Walter Milquetoast. Sanders is honest, I think, and I like him, but I do think some of his plans are unworkable. Hillary stands the best chance of unifying the country as much as it's possible to be unified, which isn't much. No matter what, we're going to get "business as usual." Washington gridlock. I don't expect much of anything from the government any more. I'm the first to admit that. Hillary did broker a cease fire between Israel and Hamas, though, so I have some hope with her.   #2036   Apr 20, '16, 8:14 am grotto   Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 2,894 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Lily Bernans Off course she could get legislation passed. She'd be an incoming president. If the Repub. Party didn't work with her, they'd implode. And when election time rolls around, the Democrats will control Congress once again. Hillary has the African-American vote, the Hispanic vote, every ethnicity vote, and tonight she proved she has the average white American vote as well. Her base is broad; she will be all but unbeatable in November. And Bernie will support her. **************************************** **************************************** ******** Does this mean you support Hillary and would vote for her? Oh, say it isn't so! __________________ "What amazed Edward Winslow during the summer of 1622 was how "reasonable men will be led to reason against their own safety." MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick   #2037   Apr 20, '16, 8:20 am Lily Bernans   Join Date: June 9, 2015 Posts: 6,603 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by grotto **************************************** **************************************** ******** Does this mean you support Hillary and would vote for her? Oh, say it isn't so! I"m a Sanders supporter, Grotto. An aside, I hope you're having a very good week!   #2038   Apr 20, '16, 4:39 pm Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite) Re: Hillary Clinton Thread There's a video in the attached link detailing the Clinton scandals. If anyone wants to refute any of them, now's the time to do so before we're stuck with a potential President Clinton: http://hillaryforprison.net __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska   #2039   Apr 20, '16, 4:47 pm lvcabbie Junior Member   Join Date: May 4, 2011 Posts: 173 Religion: unaffiliated Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo There's a video in the attached link detailing the Clinton scandals. If anyone wants to refute any of them, now's the time to do so before we're stuck with a potential President Clinton: http://hillaryforprison.net Thank you. I have my fingers crossed that one or more FBI agents will be so fed up with the cover up that they will leak details of Shrillary's stupidity and even traitorous activities. She and her husbands are crooks now and forever. She belongs in jail - NOT the Oval Office.   #2040   Apr 20, '16, 4:55 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo There's a video in the attached link detailing the Clinton scandals. If anyone wants to refute any of them, now's the time to do so before we're stuck with a potential President Clinton: http://hillaryforprison.net As someone who lived through the Clinton "scandals" in real time, I'll refrain from engaging with them again. I'm sure they'll all be trotted out ad nauseum soon enough and I'm happy for individual voters to draw their own conclusions. Suffice it to say, all the sustained firepower in the world hasn't taken the Clintons down. Bill is remembered fondly and positively despite his peccadilloes. Are the Clintons perfect? Hardly. Is Hillary Clinton the best choice to lead our nation for the next 4+ years? Undoubtedly. If the Republicans had an actual decent candidate with good ideas to lean on in 2016, they surely would do that. But they don't, so the fall-back position is to throw stones at the Democrat candidate.     Apr 20, '16, 5:04 pm Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite) Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Little Sheep Is Hillary Clinton the best choice to lead our nation for the next 4+ years? Undoubtedly. Well, if Hilary Clinton is "undoubtly" the best choice to lead our nation despite what is widely known about her character and lack of accomplishments, then you're essentially saying that there is no one worth voting for so we may as well 'vote for the devil we know, rather than the devils with less extensive baggage' with the thinking being that the other candidates 'baggage' is out there, we just aren't aware of it yet. I can't think of any other reason why someone, after examining the extensive evidence, would consider her the "best choice". __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska   #2042   Apr 20, '16, 5:05 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Little Sheep As someone who lived through the Clinton "scandals" in real time, I'll refrain from engaging with them again. I'm sure they'll all be trotted out ad nauseum soon enough and I'm happy for individual voters to draw their own conclusions. Suffice it to say, all the sustained firepower in the world hasn't taken the Clintons down. Bill is remembered fondly and positively despite his peccadilloes. Are the Clintons perfect? Hardly. Is Hillary Clinton the best choice to lead our nation for the next 4+ years? Undoubtedly. If the Republicans had an actual decent candidate with good ideas to lean on in 2016, they surely would do that. But they don't, so the fall-back position is to throw stones at the Democrat candidate. We have to remember that Bill was not remembered fondly when he left office. In 2000 his own state would not vote for his Vice President, that is how little respect he had. Character counts, and in the democratic primary Bernie has a lot more character than Hillary.   #2043   Apr 20, '16, 5:07 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 We have to remember that Bill was not remembered fondly when he left office. In 2000 his own state would not vote for his Vice President, that is how little respect he had. Character counts, and in the democratic primary Bernie has a lot more character than Hillary. Apparently it doesn't count for much, then, since he won't be securing the nomination.   #2044   Apr 20, '16, 5:11 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Well, if Hilary Clinton is "undoubtly" the best choice to lead our nation despite what is widely known about her character and lack of accomplishments, then you're essentially saying that there is no one worth voting for so we may as well 'vote for the devil we know, rather than the devils with less extensive baggage' with the thinking being that the other candidates 'baggage' is out there, we just aren't aware of it yet. I can't think of any other reason why someone, after examining the extensive evidence, would consider her the "best choice". I'm certainly not out to change anyone's mind, my friend. Vote your conscience! Clearly, you missed what I am essentially saying, but thanks for the effort. What I am saying is that Hillary's character and accomplishments are outstanding - on both fronts she outshines every single person who has attempted to grasp the Republican nomination this year. For this reason, I believe that the majority of voters in this country will elect her as their President in November. I am excited to be a part of that.   #2045   Apr 20, '16, 5:11 pm grotto   Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 2,894 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Apparently it doesn't count for much, then, since he won't be securing the nomination. **************************************** ***************************** Neither Democrat counts for much but the method of counting leaves a LOT to be desired, like counting every voter's vote for a TOTAL to determine the winner. Is that too complicated for Democrats? Seems like it is somewhat the same for Republicans! __________________ "What amazed Edward Winslow during the summer of 1622 was how "reasonable men will be led to reason against their own safety." MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick   #2046   Apr 20, '16, 5:14 pm sallybutler Regular Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 3,705 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by lvcabbie Thank you. I have my fingers crossed that one or more FBI agents will be so fed up with the cover up that they will leak details of Shrillary's stupidity and even traitorous activities. She and her husbands are crooks now and forever. She belongs in jail - NOT the Oval Office. Why do we have to call people names? __________________ 'Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.' James 1:26   #2047   Apr 20, '16, 5:15 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 We have to remember that Bill was not remembered fondly when he left office. In 2000 his own state would not vote for his Vice President, that is how little respect he had. Character counts, and in the democratic primary Bernie has a lot more character than Hillary. I'm a huge Bernie fan, to be sure, but I do not believe he has more "character" than Hillary! He is a character, of course, but so is HRC! Frankly, the difference between Bernie and Hillary is negligible. Ultimately, I don't think the majority of this country is "ready" for Bernie and I don't think he has solid plans in place to accomplish the goals he wishes to achieve. That said, Senator Sanders certainly gives us a hint at the future of the Democratic Party and we would all do well to pay attention to that.   #2048   Apr 20, '16, 5:16 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by sallybutler Why do we have to call people names? Isn't that the Christian thing to do? Yeesh, politics sure brings out the worst in folks.   #2049   Apr 20, '16, 5:18 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Apparently it doesn't count for much, then, since he won't be securing the nomination. Unfortunately, no. I am 180 degrees opposed to everything Bernie stands for, but I would rather live with the more honest candidate.   #2050   Apr 20, '16, 5:20 pm grotto   Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 2,894 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Politics can sure bring out the worst in a candidate too! We need to start a "name the date" poll for Hillary. E-mail Friday is only 24+ hours away! __________________ "What amazed Edward Winslow during the summer of 1622 was how "reasonable men will be led to reason against their own safety." MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick   #2051   Apr 20, '16, 5:23 pm jediliz Regular Member   Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 4,540 Religion: Catholic and Proud of it! Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Little Sheep Are the Clintons perfect? Hardly. Is Hillary Clinton the best choice to lead our nation for the next 4+ years? Undoubtedly Still waiting for a list of her accomplishments which makes her competent enough to lead this country AND handle a crisis, should one happen. So far, I have seen ZILCH. __________________ A Rosary a Day Keeps the Devil Away! "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." - Our Lady of Fatima Who will speak for those who have no voice? Life.....what a beautiful choice!   #2052   Apr 20, '16, 5:28 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Little Sheep I'm certainly not out to change anyone's mind, my friend. Vote your conscience! Clearly, you missed what I am essentially saying, but thanks for the effort. What I am saying is that Hillary's character and accomplishments are outstanding - on both fronts she outshines every single person who has attempted to grasp the Republican nomination this year. For this reason, I believe that the majority of voters in this country will elect her as their President in November. I am excited to be a part of that. I don't think many will really look into either her character or her accomplishments. If people did, she couldn't possibly win. It's certainly possible, even likely, that she will get elected. But it won't be because of in-depth knowledge of her. It will be because of promises she will make to give Peter's money to Paul (which she won't do despite promising it, unless Paul is on Wall Street) and because she champions abortion, an evil with which far too many are personally familiar or think they might be in the future. I find it amusing that some of the same liberals who couldn't condemn Walmart enough for their anti-union strategy, their low pay, and driving others out of business, went silent when they learned Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors when those strategies were formulated. And as much as George Bush is hated, he at least didn't laugh on film when someone was tortured to death like she did when Khaddaffi was killed. Democrats ought to be scared to death of her, but they're not, because she is going to not only preserve abortion on demand, she'll make us pay for it. If Donald Trump or Ted Cruz did that, they would be calling for their heads.   #2053   Apr 20, '16, 5:28 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz Still waiting for a list of her accomplishments which makes her competent enough to lead this country AND handle a crisis, should one happen. So far, I have seen ZILCH. A genuine question: what evidence was there that proved GW could do this? What evidence is there that Cruz can do it? Sometimes I think we ignore the obvious: no one is really qualified to be president. We can only hope that whomever is elected is better prepared for the gig than the others.   #2054   Apr 20, '16, 5:30 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I find it amusing that some of the same liberals who couldn't condemn Walmart enough for their anti-union strategy, their low pay, and driving others out of business, went silent when they learned Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors when those strategies were formulated. Pretty sure most of these liberals are for Bernie. They may ultimately vote for HRC but I think that's more a sign of the weakness of GOP candidates than anything else.   #2055   Apr 20, '16, 5:33 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz Still waiting for a list of her accomplishments which makes her competent enough to lead this country AND handle a crisis, should one happen. So far, I have seen ZILCH. No disrespect to you, but I ignore the "what has she done question" at this stage in the game. It is meaningless rhetoric (like saying "Benghazi" over and over again....) and Google can answer it for you. I'm not saying you'll accept everything you find on Google - if you don't like her, you don't like her and nothing will change that. Vote your conscience!     Apr 20, '16, 5:36 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 We have to remember that Bill was not remembered fondly when he left office. In 2000 his own state would not vote for his Vice President, that is how little respect he had. Character counts, and in the democratic primary Bernie has a lot more character than Hillary. I believe many Presidents are not remembered fondly when they leave office and their second term is usually more dismal than their first. I don't say this as a supporter of Hillary Clinton (I support Bernie Sanders) but just as an observation based on what I've heard and read.   #2057   Apr 20, '16, 5:36 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Pretty sure most of these liberals are for Bernie. They may ultimately vote for HRC but I think that's more a sign of the weakness of GOP candidates than anything else. Oh, I don't think so at all. Bernie people will absolutely vote for Hillary because both candidates support the only real Democrat policy; abortion on demand. Everything else is secondary. Never mind that Hillary Clinton was on Walmart's board. Never mind that she aided Russian (therefore Iranian) control over America's uranium, for money paid to Bill and their foundation. Never mind that she midwifed a terrorist takeover in Libya and (for awhile) in Egypt. She supports abortion on demand. And that's enough. Being a Democrat is morally demanding. I know. That's why I left the party.   #2058   Apr 20, '16, 5:38 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Oh, I don't think so at all. Bernie people will absolutely vote for Hillary because both candidates support the only real Democrat policy; abortion on demand. Everything else is secondary. Not really. If you Google it, you'll find loads of Bernie supporters who claim they won't vote for HRC. To understand their thinking, you have to understand why they support Bernie. HRC espouses the opposite values in many respects.   #2059   Apr 20, '16, 5:38 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy I believe many Presidents are not remembered fondly when they leave office and their second term is usually more dismal than their first. I don't say this as a supporter of Hillary Clinton (I support Bernie Sanders) but just as an observation based on what I've heard and read. You are probably right. It does seem to be an occupational hazard.   #2060   Apr 20, '16, 5:40 pm stinkcat_14 Veteran Member   Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 10,534 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Not really. If you Google it, you'll find loads of Bernie supporters who claim they won't vote for HRC. To understand their thinking, you have to understand why they support Bernie. HRC espouses the opposite values in many respects. The real question is will they bother to vote. They certainly aren't going to vote for Ted Cruz.   #2061   Apr 20, '16, 5:45 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by stinkcat_14 The real question is will they bother to vote. They certainly aren't going to vote for Ted Cruz. It's a good question. However, in the end, the prospect of a Ted Cruz as President might make the difference and bring out the Democratic vote for Hillary Clinton among Bernie Sanders supporters. Donald Trump may have a similar effect but he is, in a mysterious way, more appealing--and entertaining--to some Democrats, perhaps due to their not taking his proposals so seriously.   #2062   Apr 20, '16, 5:52 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy It's a good question. However, in the end, the prospect of a Ted Cruz as President might make the difference and bring out the Democratic vote for Hillary Clinton among Bernie Sanders supporters. Donald Trump may have a similar effect but he is, in a mysterious way, more appealing--and entertaining--to some Democrats, perhaps due to their not taking his proposals so seriously. I'm not sure of that. My guess (whatever it's worth) is that if any Democrats vote for Trump it will be because they're angry at having negative growth in their standard of living and have grown tired of one country after another being handed over to terrorists and invited here. I have no idea how many that will be.   #2063   Apr 20, '16, 5:54 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy It's a good question. However, in the end, the prospect of a Ted Cruz as President might make the difference and bring out the Democratic vote for Hillary Clinton among Bernie Sanders supporters. Donald Trump may have a similar effect but he is, in a mysterious way, more appealing--and entertaining--to some Democrats, perhaps due to their not taking his proposals so seriously. I agree with everything you have said here. As a Democrat, I will do anything to stop Ted Cruz from entering the Oval Office. I would vote for Trump over Cruz in a heartbeat if those were my only two choices. I think many Dems see Trump as liberal and that is because he is, IMHO, liberal! Not necessarily liberal 'politically,' but socially and in demeanor. As you inferred, Trump's populistic drumbeat finds a home in the hearts of Conservatives and Liberals. Of course, I am a Hillary supporter and I actually think Trump stands a better chance of beating Hillary in the general than Cruz. But still, if worse came to worse, I would rather endure four years of Donald "What-the-Heck-is-He-Going-to-do-Next" Trump than four years of Ted "I-Know-Exactly-What-He's-Going-to-Do Next-and-It-Makes-Me-Throw-Up-in-My-Mouth" Cruz. God Bles America!   #2064   Apr 20, '16, 5:59 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Little Sheep I agree with everything you have said here. As a Democrat, I will do anything to stop Ted Cruz from entering the Oval Office. I would vote for Trump over Cruz in a heartbeat if those were my only two choices. I think many Dems see Trump as liberal and that is because he is, IMHO, liberal! Not necessarily liberal 'politically,' but socially and in demeanor. As you inferred, Trump's populistic drumbeat finds a home in the hearts of Conservatives and Liberals. Of course, I am a Hillary supporter and I actually think Trump stands a better chance of beating Hillary in the general than Cruz. But still, if worse came to worse, I would rather endure four years of Donald "What-the-Heck-is-He-Going-to-do-Next" Trump than four years of Ted "I-Know-Exactly-What-He's-Going-to-Do Next-and-It-Makes-Me-Throw-Up-in-My-Mouth" Cruz. God Bles America! I think this just about sums up the attitude of many liberal Democrats, and it is also why Trump might, just might, defeat Hillary in the general election, that is, provided he is the nominee.   #2065   Apr 20, '16, 6:03 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner I'm not sure of that. My guess (whatever it's worth) is that if any Democrats vote for Trump it will be because they're angry at having negative growth in their standard of living and have grown tired of one country after another being handed over to terrorists and invited here. I have no idea how many that will be. Next to none, I think. If any Bernie supporters vote for Trump, it will be because they see both of these candidates as "anti-establishment."   #2066   Apr 20, '16, 6:04 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by Little Sheep But still, if worse came to worse, I would rather endure four years of Donald "What-the-Heck-is-He-Going-to-do-Next" Trump than four years of Ted "I-Know-Exactly-What-He's-Going-to-Do Next-and-It-Makes-Me-Throw-Up-in-My-Mouth" Cruz. LOL. Well said.   #2067   Apr 20, '16, 6:08 pm gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Among the many Bernie supporters I know (which is, of course, no accurate sample), most will vote for Hillary in the end. One even said he would do so while "holding his nose." Those who won't are planning to vote for Jill Stein. I don't know any who won't vote (though I'm certain they do exist). One friend was initially going to vote Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nomination (to, as he said, "burn this mutha down" and expedite a full-blown revolution). He's since swung to Stein. For what it's worth, all of the Hillary supporters I know would have easily and happily voted for Bernie in the general.   #2068   Apr 20, '16, 6:09 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy I think this just about sums up the attitude of many liberal Democrats, and it is also why Trump might, just might, defeat Hillary in the general election, that is, provided he is the nominee. He is a wild card, to be sure, MB. But I believe to the bottom of my heart that HRC and the Democrat Party will be able to accomplish what the Republicans can't (i.e.. Taking out Donald Trump)   #2069   Apr 20, '16, 6:10 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Among the many Bernie supporters I know (which is, of course, no accurate sample), most will vote for Hillary in the end. One even said he would do so while "holding his nose." Those who won't are planning to vote for Jill Stein. I don't know any who won't vote (though I'm certain they do exist). One friend was initially going to vote Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nomination (to, as he said, "burn this mutha down" and expedite a full-blown revolution). He's since swung to Stein. For what it's worth, all of the Hillary supporters I know would have easily and happily voted for Bernie in the general. I like Jill Stein as well, but she has no chance to win this year. One day, I hope. I would like to see more parties led by passionate, honest people.   #2070   Apr 20, '16, 6:13 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Hillary Clinton Thread Quote: Originally Posted by gracepoole Among the many Bernie supporters I know (which is, of course, no accurate sample), most will vote for Hillary in the end. One even said he would do so while "holding his nose." Those who won't are planning to vote for Jill Stein. I don't know any who won't vote (though I'm certain they do exist). One friend was initially going to vote Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nomination (to, as he said, "burn this mutha down" and expedite a full-blown revolution). He's since swung to Stein. For what it's worth, all of the Hillary supporters I know would have easily and happily voted for Bernie in the general. Who is Jill Stein? I never even heard of her.