Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews

Mar 28, '16, 6:05 pm

Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: According to Jewish law, gentiles should not live in the Land of Israel,” (Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi Yitzhak) Yosef said. “If a gentile does not agree to take on the seven Noahide Laws, we should send him to Saudi Arabia. When the true and complete redemption arrives, that is what we will do” . . . Non-Jews who remain in Israel are here to serve the Jews who live in Israel, according to the rabbi. “Who will be the servers? Who will be our assistants? Therefore, we leave them here in the land,” he said. Read more: http://forward.com/news/breaking-new...#ixzz44FFsEkxj This man's father, Ovadia Yosef, was also at one time the Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, and later founded the ultra-Orthodox Shas political party in 1984, and made similar statements to the ones his son has just made about Gentiles in a sermon in 2000 and a number of other controversial statements. More on The Chief Rabbinate of Israel: From Wikipedia: "The Chief Rabbinate of Israel (הרבנות הראשית לישראל) is recognized by law[1] as the supreme rabbinic and spiritual authority for Judaism in Israel. The Chief Rabbinate Council assists the two chief rabbis, who alternate in its presidency. It has legal and administrative authority to organize religious arrangements for Israel's Jews. It also responds to halakhic questions submitted by Jewish public bodies in the Diaspora. The Council sets, guides and supervises agencies within its authority. The Chief Rabbinate of Israel consists of two Chief Rabbis: an Ashkenazi rabbi and a Sephardi rabbi, also known as the Rishon leZion (i.e., First to Zion). The Chief Rabbis are elected for 10 year terms. The present Sephardi Chief Rabbi is Yitzhak Yosef and the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi is David Lau, both of whom commenced their terms in 2013." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Rabbinate_of_Israel __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)

#2   Mar 28, '16, 7:44 pm

meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Dwyer Read more: http://forward.com/news/breaking-new...#ixzz44FFsEkxj This man's father, Ovadia Yosef, was also at one time the Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, and later founded the ultra-Orthodox Shas political party in 1984, and made similar statements to the ones his son has just made about Gentiles in a sermon in 2000 and a number of other controversial statements. More on The Chief Rabbinate of Israel: From Wikipedia: "The Chief Rabbinate of Israel (הרבנות הראשית לישראל) is recognized by law[1] as the supreme rabbinic and spiritual authority for Judaism in Israel. The Chief Rabbinate Council assists the two chief rabbis, who alternate in its presidency. It has legal and administrative authority to organize religious arrangements for Israel's Jews. It also responds to halakhic questions submitted by Jewish public bodies in the Diaspora. The Council sets, guides and supervises agencies within its authority. The Chief Rabbinate of Israel consists of two Chief Rabbis: an Ashkenazi rabbi and a Sephardi rabbi, also known as the Rishon leZion (i.e., First to Zion). The Chief Rabbis are elected for 10 year terms. The present Sephardi Chief Rabbi is Yitzhak Yosef and the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi is David Lau, both of whom commenced their terms in 2013." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Rabbinate_of_Israel Some rabbis can also be extremists, who twist the tenets of Judaism to serve their own hateful political agenda and thus make a mockery of the Jewish religion.

#3   Mar 28, '16, 7:44 pm

Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews The Americans give a lot of money to Israel. It doesn't seem right that if an American Christian is in Israel, she will have to serve the Jews there?

#4   Mar 28, '16, 7:49 pm

Joseph3 Banned   Join Date: March 17, 2016 Posts: 2,137 Religion: Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews This comment would fuel people like Hitler.

#5   Mar 28, '16, 8:07 pm

unafraid Regular Member   Join Date: September 30, 2009 Posts: 673 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone The Americans give a lot of money to Israel. It doesn't seem right that if an American Christian is in Israel, she will have to serve the Jews there? Without Christian America's blood, treasure, and political support, there would be no state of Israel in the Holy Land. Money buys power; power presumes authority...but, what is genuine and true ultimately can never be entirely negated. It is a false security, and it is completely and utterly arrogant. We just had to watch our aspiring leaders ( puppets ) dance their little dances at th AIPAC convention recently. This is what Israel buys with OUR money. However, that they can never buy true American good will by these tactics, is the fatal flaw in their strategy. Genuine good will cannot be purchased. That is why Israel is so very resented by those of us whose taxes are extorted by the agents of Zionism.

#6   Mar 28, '16, 10:13 pm

PaulfromIowa Senior Member   Join Date: September 7, 2012 Posts: 6,076 Religion: Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Here is the opening line of the article, that the OP edited out: Quote: Non-Jews should not live in the Land of Israel unless they accept the seven Noahide Laws, Israel’s Sephardic chief rabbi said. The Noahide laws: Quote: Do not deny God. Do not blaspheme God. Do not murder. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations. Do not steal. Do not eat of a live animal. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to the law. Christians have been bound to the Noahide laws since the first century Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:19–21).

#7   Mar 28, '16, 10:19 pm

7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,747 Religion: Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Some rabbis can also be extremists, who twist the tenets of Judaism to serve their own hateful political agenda and thus make a mockery of the Jewish religion. do you think the Ashkenazi Rabbi shares the same views as the Sephardic Rabbi? I guess Christians are serving Israel in tourism and the money given. Not a very charitable thing for him to say. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139

#8   Mar 28, '16, 11:03 pm

phil19034 Senior Member   Join Date: September 19, 2013 Posts: 6,774 Religion: Catholic - Roman Rite

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by PaulfromIowa Here is the opening line of the article, that the OP edited out: The Noahide laws: Christians have been bound to the Noahide laws since the first century Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:19–21). It wasn't the OP, it was the article __________________ I often post from my iPhone, so please forgive typos Visit Lighthouse Catholic Media Join CD/MP3 of the Month Club Are you in ministry & want a professional email address? Visit parishconsultants.org

#9   Mar 28, '16, 11:07 pm

phil19034 Senior Member   Join Date: September 19, 2013 Posts: 6,774 Religion: Catholic - Roman Rite

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows do you think the Ashkenazi Rabbi shares the same views as the Sephardic Rabbi? I guess Christians are serving Israel in tourism and the money given. Not a very charitable thing for him to say. No, I don't think so. However, Forward is an American Jewish (and liberal) website. Most American Jews are Ashkenazi. But also, in America many Jews are not religious and a large percentage are even atheists. God Bless __________________ I often post from my iPhone, so please forgive typos Visit Lighthouse Catholic Media Join CD/MP3 of the Month Club Are you in ministry & want a professional email address? Visit parishconsultants.org

#10   Mar 28, '16, 11:16 pm

7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,747 Religion: Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by phil19034 No, I don't think so. However, Forward is an American Jewish (and liberal) website. Most American Jews are Ashkenazi. But also, in America many Jews are not religious and a large percentage are even atheists. God Bless I used to subscribe to The Forward when I studied Judaism at one of our local synagogues. I get newsletters from The Forward into my inbox. I like to know what is going on in the American Jewish community. I would like to know if the other Rabbi commented after the remarks made by the Sephardic Rabbi. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139

#11   Mar 28, '16, 11:17 pm

Kaninchen Veteran Member   Join Date: December 8, 2006 Posts: 9,399 Religion: Jewish

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by phil19034 No, I don't think so. However, Forward is an American Jewish (and liberal) website. Most American Jews are Ashkenazi. But also, in America many Jews are not religious and a large percentage are even atheists. Bit like Israel itself, then.

#12   Mar 29, '16, 6:10 am

gracepoole Senior Member   Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 7,038 Religion: Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows I used to subscribe to The Forward when I studied Judaism at one of our local synagogues. I get newsletters from The Forward into my inbox. I like to know what is going on in the American Jewish community. I would like to know if the other Rabbi commented after the remarks made by the Sephardic Rabbi. Since Judaism isn't monolithic, perhaps other rabbis shouldn't be expected to comment on the faith's outliers. Here's something of interest: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.711321

#13   Mar 29, '16, 6:18 am

jimcav Banned   Join Date: October 4, 2007 Posts: 1,149 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Christians sadly make up less than 2% of the population living in Israel, which is hardly a threat to Judaism, and certainly not enough to "serve" all the Jews.

#14   Mar 29, '16, 6:24 am

Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by unafraid Without Christian America's blood, treasure, and political support, there would be no state of Israel in the Holy Land. Money buys power; power presumes authority...but, what is genuine and true ultimately can never be entirely negated. It is a false security, and it is completely and utterly arrogant. We just had to watch our aspiring leaders ( puppets ) dance their little dances at th AIPAC convention recently. This is what Israel buys with OUR money. However, that they can never buy true American good will by these tactics, is the fatal flaw in their strategy. Genuine good will cannot be purchased. That is why Israel is so very resented by those of us whose taxes are extorted by the agents of Zionism. You should be thankful that there is one place in the whole Middle EAst where Christians are safe and growing in number; Israel. You should also be thankful that there is one place where people can say foolish things like this Rabbi does, and not be tortured and killed. There are lots of Christians who say the Jews of Israel must convert in the last days, and they're free to say what they want in Israel just as is this Rabbi. And Israel quite possibly prevented World War III, another thing for which you should be thankful. It's a long story and won't be repeated here. But it's almost certainly true.

#15   Mar 30, '16, 8:49 pm

Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other

Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner You should be thankful that there is one place in the whole Middle EAst where Christians are safe and growing in number; Israel. I don't think that Christians are all that safe in Israel: http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in...-them-1.137099 http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Mouths-filled-with-hatred http://warincontext.org/2011/11/05/b...-in-jerusalem/     Mar 31, '16, 4:11 am 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,747 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone I don't think that Christians are all that safe in Israel: http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in...-them-1.137099 http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Mouths-filled-with-hatred http://warincontext.org/2011/11/05/b...-in-jerusalem/ those articles are from 2004 and 2009. anything more recent? __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #17   Mar 31, '16, 7:09 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone I don't think that Christians are all that safe in Israel: http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in...-them-1.137099 http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Mouths-filled-with-hatred http://warincontext.org/2011/11/05/b...-in-jerusalem/ Most Israelis are resolutely secular. Undoubtedly there are places in the U.S. where Jews aren't safe. They sure weren't when I lived in a changing neighborhood in St. Louis. There are bigots everywhere, and the Israelis-as-bigots anecdotal stories don't tell us anything more than that. The fact is, Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the Christian population is growing. And, of course, most Christians in Israel are ARabs. To what are these Orthodox expressing hostility, the fact that they're Christians or the fact that they're Arabs? Not that expressing hostility to Arabs is a good thing, but if anyone on this earth has reason for it, it's Israeli Jews.   #18   Mar 31, '16, 8:53 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Most Israelis are resolutely secular. Undoubtedly there are places in the U.S. where Jews aren't safe. They sure weren't when I lived in a changing neighborhood in St. Louis. There are bigots everywhere, and the Israelis-as-bigots anecdotal stories don't tell us anything more than that. The fact is, Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the Christian population is growing. And, of course, most Christians in Israel are ARabs. To what are these Orthodox expressing hostility, the fact that they're Christians or the fact that they're Arabs? Not that expressing hostility to Arabs is a good thing, but if anyone on this earth has reason for it, it's Israeli Jews. Excuses for bigotry while discussing Israel, the irony is strong in this thread....   #19   Mar 31, '16, 9:12 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian Excuses for bigotry while discussing Israel, the irony is strong in this thread.... Before assuming the moral superiority of dismissing it as bigotry, one ought to at least try to learn whether Arabs in Israel support establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders or not; something that would be the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Now, we are sometimes told on here (correctly or incorrectly) that Arab Israelis do want that, and that Arab Christians support it generally. I am not saying that justifies the hostility of this Jewish minority toward Christians, but I am saying sometimes such things have their origin in fear and the sense of potential betrayal, rather than religious bigotry. The fact is, we don't know. If it arises out of fear of attack, the actions are still wrong, but they're a lot more understandable than if they arise out of some motive of religious intolerance. Regardless of any of that, this has all the appearance of anecdotal stories of hostile actions of a small group within a larger society; something that happens in every society. That doesn't mean it's okay, any more than it was okay for people to chase the Jews out of a neighborhood I once lived it. But neither should be represented as characteristic of a society as a whole.   #20   Mar 31, '16, 9:47 am phil19034 Senior Member   Join Date: September 19, 2013 Posts: 6,774 Religion: Catholic - Roman Rite Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Before assuming the moral superiority of dismissing it as bigotry, one ought to at least try to learn whether Arabs in Israel support establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders or not; something that would be the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Now, we are sometimes told on here (correctly or incorrectly) that Arab Israelis do want that, and that Arab Christians support it generally. I am not saying that justifies the hostility of this Jewish minority toward Christians, but I am saying sometimes such things have their origin in fear and the sense of potential betrayal, rather than religious bigotry. The fact is, we don't know. If it arises out of fear of attack, the actions are still wrong, but they're a lot more understandable than if they arise out of some motive of religious intolerance. Regardless of any of that, this has all the appearance of anecdotal stories of hostile actions of a small group within a larger society; something that happens in every society. That doesn't mean it's okay, any more than it was okay for people to chase the Jews out of a neighborhood I once lived it. But neither should be represented as characteristic of a society as a whole. A priest from Jordan came to my parish to speak one. Then, during the World Meeting of Families, the Patriarch of Jerusalem came to my parish as well. When speaking about Christians in Israel, the priest said they are safe from Israelis for the most part. Especially in/around Bethlehem. However, Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip are not. They are treated just like Palestinian terrorists. For Christians in the West Bank & Gaza, they have to fear both Israel and the Muslims. But ISIS is obviously the greatest threat to everyone. __________________ I often post from my iPhone, so please forgive typos Visit Lighthouse Catholic Media Join CD/MP3 of the Month Club Are you in ministry & want a professional email address? Visit parishconsultants.org   #21   Mar 31, '16, 12:09 pm Ridgerunner Forum Elder   Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,704 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by phil19034 A priest from Jordan came to my parish to speak one. Then, during the World Meeting of Families, the Patriarch of Jerusalem came to my parish as well. When speaking about Christians in Israel, the priest said they are safe from Israelis for the most part. Especially in/around Bethlehem. However, Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip are not. They are treated just like Palestinian terrorists. For Christians in the West Bank & Gaza, they have to fear both Israel and the Muslims. But ISIS is obviously the greatest threat to everyone. I do not, for a moment, doubt that Christians in the West Bank and Gaza are fearful. Some simply do support, or pretend to support, the P.A. or Hamas. Probably one has to at least pretend. But there are Christian terrorists too, allied with Fatah or Hamas. http://www.debbieschlussel.com/43630...-shalit-trade/ And as Arabs living among Muslims, some of whom are terrorists, they no doubt have to fear the Israelis as well, whether they support the Arab terrorists or not.   #22   Apr 2, '16, 9:05 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews In many countries we are seeing that the business elite, the political elite, even the charismatic religious leaders are half-Jews or quarter-Jews, if these people are skilfully combined, then whether we like it or not, we will have to agree with the rabbi.   #23   Apr 2, '16, 9:08 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Athanasiy In many countries we are seeing that the business elite, the political elite, even the charismatic religious leaders are half-Jews or quarter-Jews, if these people are skilfully combined, then whether we like it or not, we will have to agree with the rabbi. There is no such thing as a half or quarter Jew, you are Jewish or you are not.   #24   Apr 2, '16, 9:41 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews The only question is - what is the benefit of not-Jew by serving the Jew? For example in some countries I can be successful but under certain circumstances, I can not be very successful. Just because certain people even of different faiths united by kinship, and they do not admit to themselves people of other nationalities. Maybe I can open a pharmacy but a network of pharmacies. I can open a small shop but not a supermarket. Laboratories, pharmacy networks, supermarkets, can belong to the business elites of different denominations, but they all Jews by blood. We are probably talking about the realities that prove the words of Rabbi, If you do not recognize it for granted, you will sooner or later recognize it. Rabbi can add- Do not you even realize that you can not compete with us? (In certain regions of the former Soviet Union, the Armenians, Chinese, Caucasians can compete with Jews) But my question to the Rabbi is - what is the benefit of not-Jew by serving the Jew? It is particularly interesting to ask this question in academic circles where due to clannishness and nepotism there is a regression of science, and discrimination against the representatives of the titular nation.   #25   Apr 2, '16, 9:45 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Athanasiy The only question is - what is the benefit of not-Jew by serving the Jew? For example in some countries I can be successful but under certain circumstances, I can not be very successful. Just because certain people even of different faiths united by kinship, and they do not admit to themselves people of other nationalities. Maybe I can open a pharmacy but a network of pharmacies. I can open a small shop but not a supermarket. Laboratories, pharmacy networks, supermarkets, can belong to the business elites of different denominations, but they all Jews by blood. We are probably talking about the realities that prove the words of Rabbi, If you do not recognize it for granted, you will sooner or later recognize it. Rabbi can add- Do not you even realize that you can not compete with us? (In certain regions of the former Soviet Union, the Armenians, Chinese, Caucasians can compete with Jews) But the question is - what is the benefit of not-Jew by serving the Jew? It is particularly interesting to ask this question in academic circles where there is a regression of science, and there is discrimination against the representatives of the titular nation. Considering there is a relatively small populace of Jews in the Ukraine or Russian Federation I have always been amused that this kind of talk about 'world Jewry' still does the rounds in both states. In that respect Russia and the Ukraine and actually very alike as I have heard this kind of talk in both places both in the real world and online.   #26   Apr 2, '16, 10:30 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian Considering there is a relatively small populace of Jews in the Ukraine or Russian Federation I have always been amused that this kind of talk about 'world Jewry' still does the rounds in both states. In that respect Russia and the Ukraine and actually very alike as I have heard this kind of talk in both places both in the real world and online. I was just thinking In any case, I'm just a peasant. and my mind is the peasant's mind, so its not good to be jealous at those who are intelligent and go to great risks. but still the rabbi should begin with a comment on his theory and not with the formulation of the theory and then he should be able to answer the questions of the people of the titular nation working in research fields, in medicine, in pharmacy, in business.   #27   Apr 2, '16, 10:33 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Athanasiy I was just thinking In any case, I'm just a peasant. and my mind is the peasant's mind, so its not good to be jealous at those who are intelligent and go to great risks. but still the rabbi should begin with a comment on his theory and not with the formulation of the theory and then he should be able to answer the questions of the people of the titular nation working in research fields, in medicine, in pharmacy, in business. What is a 'peasant's mind'? The term is so vague as to lack meaning.   #28   Apr 2, '16, 10:36 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian What is a 'peasant's mind'? The term is so vague as to lack meaning. I mean I am not a good entrepreneur.   #29   Apr 2, '16, 10:37 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Athanasiy I mean I am not good entrepreneur. I fail to see the connection. Many noteworthy businessmen have come from peasant backgrounds.   #30   Apr 2, '16, 10:41 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian I fail to see the connection. Many noteworthy businessmen have come from peasant backgrounds. Well, I mean I was not good in school with math, and I don't like risks.       Apr 2, '16, 10:44 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Athanasiy Well, I mean I was not good in school with math, and I don't like risks. This still leaves me no closer to understanding what such a numinous term as 'peasant mind' means. It speaks only to and of your own personal experiences and could be equally true of people of any social class. As to the Rabbi in the original post people like this who believe in religious triumphalism are not in short supply (sadly) in any of the world's major faiths. We have had plenty of them in Christianity and other faiths have had their fair share.   #32   Apr 2, '16, 11:05 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews I also have no concept of chutzpah, and also there is the fear of the law, too much fear of the law, I think a very successful entrepreneur would have laughed in my face from such qualities   #33   Apr 2, '16, 11:17 am Robert Sock Veteran Member   Join Date: February 10, 2009 Posts: 11,207 Religion: Catholic - revert in 1993 Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews That Rabbi sounds like a troll! __________________ CHOOSE LOVE! Earthly wisdom is the booby-prize in this life, but it still has advantages over our usual day-to-day vanities!   #34   Apr 2, '16, 11:27 am Athanasiy Regular Member   Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1,907 Religion: Roman-Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Robert Sock That Rabbi sounds like a troll! Do you know that there are a Jewish theologians who are ready to prove to you that you really blessed by serving the chosen people of God? and your confusion is just a lack of understanding of this truth.   #35   Apr 2, '16, 1:00 pm Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,300 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews As I understand it, the dream or fantasy of "Gentiles being put on Earth to serve Jews" is precisely the same dream or fantasy espoused in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, although in that book this dream or fantasy is imagined on a global scale. (Anyone who's actually read that book or Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, please correct me if I'm wrong.) So for this man, Yitzhak Yosef, the Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, to actually preach the identical message within a strictly Israeli and not global sense, is plainly insane. I believe that most people, both Jewish and non-Jewish, consider idea thoroughly vile. I don't see why Israel doesn't throw him in prison. I believe other forms and types of speech in Israel are crimes punishable by prison in Israel. Surely this man's words are causing extreme damage to Israel, reputation-wise if nothing else. And this man's father, Ovadia Yosef, who held the same Sphardic Chief Rabbi position, preached exactly the same thing. This form of extremism certainly seems more far, far more damaging than the Boycott movement, which is one form of speech that's outlawed. This Rabbi's words will live forever - what could possibly be more harmful than that? Has there ever been any book in the entire history of mankind more damaging than the Protocols? Also, in my view, all of the indirect allusions to Jews possessing good genetic entrepreneurial instincts in this thread are plainly racist. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #36   Apr 2, '16, 1:12 pm JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child As I understand it, the dream or fantasy of "Gentiles being put on Earth to serve Jews" is precisely the same dream or fantasy espoused in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, although in that book this dream or fantasy is imagined on a global scale. (Anyone who's actually read that book or Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, please correct me if I'm wrong.) So for this man, Yitzhak Yosef, the Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, to actually preach the identical message within a strictly Israeli and not global sense, is plainly insane. I believe that most people, both Jewish and non-Jewish, consider idea thoroughly vile. I don't see why Israel doesn't throw him in prison. After all, other forms and types of speech in Israel are crimes punishable by prison. Surely this man's words are causing extreme damage to Israel, reputation-wise if nothing else. And this man's father, Ovadia Yosef, who held the same Sphardic Chief Rabbi position, preached exactly the same thing. It certainly seems more damaging than the Boycott movement, which is one form of speech which is outlawed. Also, in my view, all of the indirect allusions to Jews possessing genetic entrepreneurial instincts is plainly racist. There are a couple of similar groups which preach stuff like this in Israel which have been outlawed over the years and some really far out fringe groups which are considered terrorist groupings. One of those encourages Jews to report Jews dating non-Jews via a hotline so they can then 'persuade' both parties to stop dating. That group has a rather unpleasant reputation in Israel for annoying Jews, Christians and just about everyone else. As to your last statement sadly these attitudes have not gone away in Europe and in the nations my wife and her ancestors come from they are very much rooted in popular culture and still causing problems.Just as attitudes about other groups are rooted in my homeland and cause strife there.   #37   Apr 2, '16, 1:17 pm porthos11 Senior Member   Join Date: July 1, 2004 Posts: 8,160 Religion: Latin Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Does "serve the Jews" include our clergy being spat on in the streets of Jerusalem? __________________   #38   Apr 2, '16, 1:24 pm Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,300 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian There are a couple of similar groups which preach stuff like this in Israel which have been outlawed over the years and some really far out fringe groups which are considered terrorist groupings. One of those encourages Jews to report Jews dating non-Jews via a hotline so they can then 'persuade' both parties to stop dating. That group has a rather unpleasant reputation in Israel for annoying Jews, Christians and just about everyone else. As to your last statement sadly these attitudes have not gone away in Europe and in the nations my wife and her ancestors come from they are very much rooted in popular culture and still causing problems.Just as attitudes about other groups are rooted in my homeland and cause strife there. Yeah, I had actually heard about that intermarriage-is-treason-type group being outlawed, and it most definitely sounded like an unpleasant organization. I should probably clarify, too, that I'm not in favor of imprisoning people for free speech violations or whatever, but I think if Israeli courts are already doing that anyway, then this Chief Rabbi's hate speech tops them all by a huge margin. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #39   Apr 2, '16, 1:27 pm JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by porthos11 Does "serve the Jews" include our clergy being spat on in the streets of Jerusalem? Nope, it just shows stupidity and bigotry are universal and part of the human condition regardless of what religion or nation you come from.   #40   Apr 2, '16, 1:29 pm JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled Child Yeah, I had actually heard about that intermarriage-is-treason-type group being outlawed, and it most definitely sounded like an unpleasant organization. I should probably clarify, too, that I'm not in favor of imprisoning people for free speech violations or whatever, but I think if Israeli courts are already doing that, then this Chief Rabbi's hate speech tops them all by a huge margin. As I recall that particular group was outlawed because they actually supported domestic terrorism and had involvement with terrorist groups. Like yourself I tend to be wary of imprisoning people for saying things, as that could be you and me in the dock next morning after all. The Rabbi does reflect a point of view I've hard from some fundamentalist Christians also over the years as well oddly enough.   #41   Apr 2, '16, 1:52 pm Exiled Child Veteran Member   Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,300 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews In America it's apparently illegal for University professors to say anything negative about Israel. Not illegal in the sense that there are actual laws against it, but illegal in the sense that a number of professors have lost their jobs and been blacklisted because it. But this situation with Yitzhak Yosef is kind of the exact opposite - instead of criticizing Israeli crimes against Palestinians, he's urging that there actually be infinitely more crimes. It's strange, kind of like the ultimate expression and endorsement of terrorism. Of jihad, really. If the idea is to outlaw what harms Israel, I think all of these things fall into that category. At least in the long run they will. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine   #42   Apr 2, '16, 4:23 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian There is no such thing as a half or quarter Jew, you are Jewish or you are not. There are secular Jews, reformed Jews, conservative Jews and orthodox Jews.   #43   Apr 2, '16, 4:46 pm JharekCarnelian Forum Elder   Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,431 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone There are secular Jews, reformed Jews, conservative Jews and orthodox Jews. All of whom are Jewish and none of whom are 'half' or 'quarter' Jewish, such terms as those are meaningless. One is either Jewish or not, the level of personal faith the person has is another matter but it does not render one more or less a Jew if the person is Jewish.   #44   Apr 2, '16, 4:51 pm Sarcelle Senior Member   Join Date: November 7, 2012 Posts: 7,462 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by PaulfromIowa Here is the opening line of the article, that the OP edited out: The Noahide laws: Christians have been bound to the Noahide laws since the first century Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:19–21). However, a Christian who recognizes Jesus as God has already broken the Noahide laws.   #45   Apr 2, '16, 5:06 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian All of whom are Jewish and none of whom are 'half' or 'quarter' Jewish, such terms as those are meaningless. One is either Jewish or not, the level of personal faith the person has is another matter but it does not render one more or less a Jew if the person is Jewish. Israeli Orthodox Rabbinate does not recognize or accept the authority of any non-Orthodox rabbi, such as a conservative or a reform rabbi.     Apr 2, '16, 5:11 pm Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews The rabbi is living in a fantasy if he thinks that such a statement has anything at all to do with the real world.   #47   Apr 2, '16, 6:06 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone Israeli Orthodox Rabbinate does not recognize or accept the authority of any non-Orthodox rabbi, such as a conservative or a reform rabbi. They may not accept their authority as rabbis but they cannot deny their being Jewish.   #48   Apr 2, '16, 8:57 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy They may not accept their authority as rabbis but they cannot deny their being Jewish. Despite their recognition as Jews for the purposes of immigration and registration in Israel, the Orthodox rabbinate continues to bar non-Orthodox converts from marrying in Israel and receiving a Jewish burial. If they are Jews, why can't they marry in Israel and why can't they receive a Jewish burial in Israel? Non-Orthodox Jews only have access to the the prayer space at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount for a limited number of hours each day.   #49   Apr 2, '16, 9:08 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone Despite their recognition as Jews for the purposes of immigration and registration in Israel, the Orthodox rabbinate continues to bar non-Orthodox converts from marrying in Israel and receiving a Jewish burial. If they are Jews, why can't they marry in Israel and why can't they receive a Jewish burial in Israel? Non-Orthodox Jews only have access to the the prayer space at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount for a limited number of hours each day. I was referring to conservative and reform rabbis, whom I thought you were suggesting were not regarded as Jewish by the Orthodox rabbinate. The question of converts to Judaism is a whole other issue.   #50   Apr 2, '16, 9:09 pm 7 Sorrows Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member   Join Date: September 23, 2008 Posts: 43,747 Religion: Catholic Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian Considering there is a relatively small populace of Jews in the Ukraine or Russian Federation I have always been amused that this kind of talk about 'world Jewry' still does the rounds in both states. In that respect Russia and the Ukraine and actually very alike as I have heard this kind of talk in both places both in the real world and online. I thought it is not THE Ukraine - just Ukraine. __________________ You created every part of me; you put me together in my mother's womb. (13) when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there----you saw me before I was born. (15) ~~~Psalm 139   #51   Apr 2, '16, 9:14 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy I was referring to conservative and reform rabbis, whom I thought you were suggesting were not regarded as Jewish by the Orthodox rabbinate. The question of converts to Judaism is a whole other issue. I guess one question which could be asked in this context is: Are people who convert to reform Judaism in Israel, Jewish or not? One poster claims you are either Jewish or not, but it does appear that in Israel, that there are different levels of recognition.   #52   Apr 2, '16, 9:24 pm meltzerboy Forum Elder   Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 26,596 Religion: Jewish Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by Tomdstone I guess one question which could be asked in this context is: Are people who convert to reform Judaism in Israel, Jewish or not? One poster claims you are either Jewish or not, but it does appear that in Israel, that there are different levels of recognition. Probably not only in Israel but in the United States as well. That is, I am not sure certain Orthodox rabbis would consider converts to Judaism who go through the conversion process by means of Conservative or Reform law to be Jewish.   #53   Apr 2, '16, 10:18 pm Tomdstone Banned   Join Date: January 21, 2013 Posts: 11,614 Religion: other Re: Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi: Gentiles Here To Serve the Jews Quote: Originally Posted by meltzerboy Probably not only in Israel but in the United States as well. That is, I am not sure certain Orthodox rabbis would consider converts to Judaism who go through the conversion process by means of Conservative or Reform law to be Jewish. Exactly.