Re: Donald Trump to meet with NRA on banning gun sales for people on terror watch list
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucfengr
Everybody, even the NRA wants to keep guns out of terrorists hands.
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..but only if the cost of doing so is zero.
Jul 13, '16, 7:14 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
This CNN article discusses about in the event the Supreme Court had to
judge on the presidential election, Ruth Bader Ginsburg would, "likely
have to recuse herself": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/13/po...use/index.html
What about if she is still on the court and Donald Trump becomes
president and a case or cases involving his administration end up going
before the Supreme Court - would she probably have to recuse herself in
any case involving a Trump administration?
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Jul 13, '16, 7:21 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
This CNN article discusses about in the
event the Supreme Court had to judge on the presidential election, Ruth
Bader Ginsburg would, "likely have to recuse herself": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/13/po...use/index.html
What about if she is still on the court and Donald Trump becomes
president and a case or cases involving his administration end up going
before the Supreme Court - would she probably have to recuse herself in
any case involving a Trump administration? |
Possibly she would have to recuse herself. But I think it is
better to take it one step at a time rather than speculating on what
might happen. First, the VP picks and the election.
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Jul 13, '16, 8:25 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
This CNN article discusses about in the
event the Supreme Court had to judge on the presidential election, Ruth
Bader Ginsburg would, "likely have to recuse herself": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/13/po...use/index.html
What about if she is still on the court and Donald Trump becomes
president and a case or cases involving his administration end up going
before the Supreme Court - would she probably have to recuse herself in
any case involving a Trump administration? |
Ginsburg has demeaned the court by overtly politicizing herself.
At least the pretense of judicial impartiality is being laid to rest now.
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Jul 13, '16, 8:46 pm
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Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg under fire for 'dumb' Trump criticism
Quote:
Arthur Hellman, a judicial ethics expert at the University of
Pittsburgh's law school, said in an interview that no Supreme Court
justice in history has ever injected himself or herself into the
political process like this and that it's "very troubling from an
ethical perspective" . . .
The Supreme Court was already figuring into the election even before
this conflict. Justice Antonin Scalia unexpectedly died in February and
the Republican-controlled Senate is refusing to have confirmation
hearings for Merrick Garland, President Barack Obama's chosen
replacement.
Republicans argue it should be up to the next president to fill the
vacancy. Given the ages of some of the current justices (i.e., Justices
Ginsburg (age 83), Breyer (77), and Kennedy (79), the next president could make several appointments during his or her term. In May, Trump took the unusual step of releasing a list of people he would consider choosing if he is elected.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/justice...cism-1.3677904
I don't consider this news story part of the "Donald Trump Thread"
because U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made the charged
political comments.
It's amazing there is no Code of Ethics for U.S. Supreme Court Justices. 
Justices and Judges are politicians too.
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Last edited by Dwyer; Jul 13, '16 at 8:56 pm.
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Jul 13, '16, 9:20 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl1958
Ginsburg has demeaned the court by overtly politicizing herself.
At least the pretense of judicial impartiality is being laid to rest now.
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The appearance of impartiality has always been a pretense. Do you
really think that the Supreme Court decision in Bush v. Gore in 2000
which gave Bush the presidency was an impartial one?
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Jul 13, '16, 9:27 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorolfr
The appearance of impartiality has always
been a pretense. Do you really think that the Supreme Court decision in
Bush v. Gore in 2000 which gave Bush the presidency was an impartial
one?
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I think that now there is not even the pretense.
Checks and balances require that the Supreme Court actually believe in
their impartiality, even if nobody is without bias. That is no longer
even remembered as an ideal to aspire to.
Rehashing something that was controversial 16 years ago is something
that you will have to find another partner to play that game with.
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Jul 13, '16, 9:41 pm
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Re: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg under fire for 'dumb' Trump criticism
But how is what she said not accurate...
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Jul 13, '16, 9:53 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Just saw something interesting in the Washington Post. Among the
celebrities that will be at the Republican convention next week is
Caitlyn Jenner. It doesn't say if she's going to speak or not.
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Jul 13, '16, 10:49 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorolfr
Just saw something interesting in the Washington Post.
Among the celebrities that will be at the Republican convention next
week is Caitlyn Jenner. It doesn't say if she's going to speak or not.
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Are you mistaken? Because this article says, "Caitlyn Jenner is
heading to Cleveland -- not for the Republican National Convention, but
instead to be a celebrity guest at an LGBT brunch": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/09/po...merican-unity/
Interestingly, this article says Jenner supported Cruz before supporting Trump.
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Jul 13, '16, 10:53 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
Are you mistaken? Because this article
says, "Caitlyn Jenner is heading to Cleveland -- not for the Republican
National Convention, but instead to be a celebrity guest at an LGBT
brunch": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/09/po...merican-unity/
Interestingly, this article says Jenner supported Cruz before supporting Trump. |
Maybe Jenner isn't going to the convention, too, although she is a Republican (which I will never understand).
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Jul 13, '16, 10:58 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
Are you mistaken? Because this article
says, "Caitlyn Jenner is heading to Cleveland -- not for the Republican
National Convention, but instead to be a celebrity guest at an LGBT
brunch": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/09/po...merican-unity/
Interestingly, this article says Jenner supported Cruz before supporting Trump. |
LOL Now I'm beginning to think Caitlyn Jenner is indeed disturbed if she supported both Cruz and Trump.
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Jul 14, '16, 5:35 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorolfr
Maybe Jenner isn't going to the convention, too, although she is a Republican (which I will never understand).
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Many people are Republicans for financial reasons, not religious reasons.
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rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is
worthless.'
James 1:26
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Jul 14, '16, 6:03 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorolfr
The appearance of impartiality has always
been a pretense. Do you really think that the Supreme Court decision in
Bush v. Gore in 2000 which gave Bush the presidency was an impartial
one?
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Bush won the recounts ... and the Dems ONLY wanted to recount the districts where they lost.
There were like eight recounts. Bush won them.
Florida finally certified the count as was their duty.
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Jul 14, '16, 6:28 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl1958
Ginsburg has demeaned the court by overtly politicizing herself.
At least the pretense of judicial impartiality is being laid to rest now.
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Ginsburg should have not expressed an opinion.
But trump's tweets about it confirm to me how thin skinned he really is.
5 tweets (that I counted). Phrases like "Her mind is shot" "Big mistake by an incompetent judge"
Why can't he disagree with her without using ad hominems? Especially
"her mind is shot" is it because she's older? And 5 tweets. Why not
ignore it, or make one statement and then move on.
How is this proof of being a great negotiator?
__________________
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The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we
saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the
Father, full of grace and truth.
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Jul 14, '16, 6:38 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36
Why can't he disagree with her without
using ad hominems? Especially "her mind is shot" is it because she's
older? And 5 tweets. Why not ignore it, or make one statement and then
move on.
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Because he's all id and a compulsive trash talker and bully. She
should not have inserted herself into the conversation, however.
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Jul 14, '16, 6:41 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36
Ginsburg should have not expressed an opinion.
But trump's tweets about it confirm to me how thin skinned he really is.
5 tweets (that I counted). Phrases like "Her mind is shot" "Big mistake by an incompetent judge"
Why can't he disagree with her without using ad hominems? Especially
"her mind is shot" is it because she's older? And 5 tweets. Why not
ignore it, or make one statement and then move on.
How is this proof of being a great negotiator?
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My take is that there is a time to fight and a time to negotiate.
Trump fights like a boxer in the ring and goes for a knock out because
his eyes are set on the prize, just like how he won over 16 competitors
in the primary. Keep in mind that unless trump himself makes noise about
this, the media would have let it slide. Since he's running a campaign
themed on a rigged system and corruption from top down, Ginsburgs
statement comes as a salient example of what trump has railed Against.
To say her mind is shot is not unreasonable because a wise judge
wouldn't have done what she did. She put herself in a hard position
where one day she might have to recuse herself in important cases--not a
decision made by a wise mind at all.
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Jul 14, '16, 6:55 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Do you or anyone else know what kind of
governor Mike Pence has been, that is, how is he perceived by voters in
his home state of Indiana, Republican and Democrat? I assume his views
are quite conservative.
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Very conservative. Not sure on his popularity. I have read that
even though Indiana is pretty solidly red, he is facing a tough
re-election bid. The thinking seems to be that he would rather take a
shot at VP and let former governor Mitch Daniels (who is more moderate)
run for governor.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:16 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36
Ginsburg should have not expressed an opinion.
But trump's tweets about it confirm to me how thin skinned he really is.
5 tweets (that I counted). Phrases like "Her mind is shot" "Big mistake by an incompetent judge"
Why can't he disagree with her without using ad hominems? Especially
"her mind is shot" is it because she's older? And 5 tweets. Why not
ignore it, or make one statement and then move on.
How is this proof of being a great negotiator?
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As between using a bit of hyperbole in responding to a gratuitous
political attack by one who is supposed to refrain from politicking as a
matter of judicial ethics, I would say the latter is far more egregious
and, frankly, deserved what it got.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:21 am
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Ruth Bader Ginsburg: 'I regret making' Donald Trump remarks
(CNN)Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Thursday she regrets
remarks she made earlier this week to CNN and other outlets criticizing
presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.
"On reflection, my recent remarks in response to press inquiries were
ill-advised and I regret making them," Ginsburg said in a statement.
"Judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. In the
future I will be more circumspect."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/14/politi...rks/index.html
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Catholicism is not the religious version of a political ideology
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Jul 14, '16, 7:21 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
My take is that there is a time to fight
and a time to negotiate. Trump fights like a boxer in the ring and goes
for a knock out because his eyes are set on the prize, just like how he
won over 16 competitors in the primary. Keep in mind that unless trump
himself makes noise about this, the media would have let it slide. Since
he's running a campaign themed on a rigged system and corruption from
top down, Ginsburgs statement comes as a salient example of what trump
has railed Against. To say her mind is shot is not unreasonable because a
wise judge wouldn't have done what she did. She put herself in a hard
position where one day she might have to recuse herself in important
cases--not a decision made by a wise mind at all.
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You see him as a boxer?
He often reminds me of my kids when they were small. "Sister took my toy!" "oh no, Brother is a poopiehead!"
Pretend that Judge Ginsburg really did have a mental ailment, it isn't
charitable or presidential to say "her mind is shot." It's a slur and an
insult to those who actually have dementia.
__________________
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The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we
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Father, full of grace and truth.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:23 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36
Ginsburg should have not expressed an opinion.
But trump's tweets about it confirm to me how thin skinned he really is.
5 tweets (that I counted). Phrases like "Her mind is shot" "Big mistake by an incompetent judge"
Why can't he disagree with her without using ad hominems? Especially
"her mind is shot" is it because she's older? And 5 tweets. Why not
ignore it, or make one statement and then move on.
How is this proof of being a great negotiator?
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I agree. And I would add this says a lot about Trump's
personality: immature at the least, somewhat disturbed from a clinical
point of view. Give this kind of personality the power of the presidency
and all bets are off.
At the same time, I do not condone what Ginsburg did, which was foolish to say the least.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:38 am
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg: 'I regret making' Donald Trump remarks
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilliam
(CNN)Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader
Ginsburg said Thursday she regrets remarks she made earlier this week to
CNN and other outlets criticizing presumptive Republican presidential
nominee Donald Trump.
"On reflection, my recent remarks in response to press inquiries were
ill-advised and I regret making them," Ginsburg said in a statement.
"Judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. In the
future I will be more circumspect."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/14/politi...rks/index.html |
She regrets it, but I think there are still questions surrounding
whether she would recuse herself from any rulings that involved a Trump
administration, if he did become U.S. President.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:41 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner
As between using a bit of hyperbole in
responding to a gratuitous political attack by one who is supposed to
refrain from politicking as a matter of judicial ethics, I would say the
latter is far more egregious and, frankly, deserved what it got.
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We don't agree on everything. OK, we don't agree on much. But I
agree with you here. I understand Justice Ginsburg's feelings about
Trump. I mostly agree with her. She should not be speaking out like
this.
One interesting point on the politicization of the SC. The older
Justices seem more actively political than the younger. Scalia also said
things in public I thought he shouldn't (none as egregious as
Ginsburg's latest.) Alito had his famous issues with the State of the
Union. But the "newer" Justices seem to be taking a lower profile. Is
that because they are new, or are they trying to be less overtly
political? I hope its the latter.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:42 am
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg: 'I regret making' Donald Trump remarks
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
Ok she regrets it, but still, would she
recuse herself from any rulings that involved a Trump administration, if
he did become U.S. President?
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She doesn't have a history of recusing herself over items like
this. And there is history for not doing so. There was no mystery that
Chief Justice Taney hated Abraham Lincoln. He didn't recuse himself.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:47 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
I agree. And I would add this says a lot
about Trump's personality: immature at the least, somewhat disturbed
from a clinical point of view. Give this kind of personality the power
of the presidency and all bets are off.
At the same time, I do not condone what Ginsburg did, which was foolish to say the least.
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Why is it immature to stand up for yourself? Why is it better to
be a gentle victim when you can win the fight? Trump is clearly not the
wrong guy here and yet the wagon is always circled back to how bad he
is. why can't we have a leader who is not afraid to fight for what's
right each and every time instead of hem-hawing useless rhetoric of
political correctness, getting nothing done while the country slips down
the drain?
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Jul 14, '16, 7:52 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
Why is it immature to stand up for
yourself? Why is it better to be a gentle victim when you can win the
fight? Trump is clearly not the wrong guy here and yet the wagon is
always circled back to how bad he is. why can't we have a leader who is
not afraid to fight for what's right each and every time instead of
hem-hawing useless rhetoric of political correctness, getting nothing
done while the country slips down the drain?
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Diplomacy is also a virtue.
In the words of the great philosopher, Kenny Rogers, "You've got to know
when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away."
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Jul 14, '16, 7:55 am
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg: 'I regret making' Donald Trump remarks
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilliam
She doesn't have a history of recusing
herself over items like this. And there is history for not doing so.
There was no mystery that Chief Justice Taney hated Abraham Lincoln. He
didn't recuse himself.
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And there were cases invoing the Lincoln administration that went
before the a Supreme Court while Chief Justice Taney ruled on those
cases, and this justice hated him?
What about what is cited in this article,
28 U.S. Code 455, "Any justice, judge or magistrate judge of the United
States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his
impartiality might reasonably be questioned."
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Jul 14, '16, 7:56 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
I thought only the law was to be considered. The fact one thinks in more
liberal or a conservative view is one thing but this has escalated to a
point of political involvement. The job is "blind justice" not my
liberal flavored justice. How has that helped anything? Every time she
rules now that doubt of credibility looms.
We can't fix Hillarys own systemic justice system racism like that. Just sayin.
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Jul 14, '16, 7:59 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
I though only the law was to be
considered. The fact one thinks in more liberal or a conservative view
is one thing but this has escalated to a point of political involvement.
The job is "blind justice" not my liberal flavored justice. How hace
that help anything? Every time she rules now that doubt of credibility
looms.
We can't fix the Hillarys own systemic racism like that. Just sayin.
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Oh, I think the doubt of credibility on the Supreme Court has already been established, sadly.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:07 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
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Jul 14, '16, 8:07 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Ginsburg just expressed "regret" over her "ill-advised" statements:
Quote:
| “On reflection, my recent remarks in response to press inquiries were
ill-advised and I regret making them,” Ginsburg said. “Judges should
avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. In the future I will
be more circumspect.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...mepage%2Fstory
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Jul 14, '16, 8:08 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
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Hasn't the Rasmussen poll been the ONLY one that has consistently had Trump leading?
I never had any doubt it was going to be a very close election.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:12 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Oh, I think the doubt of credibility on the Supreme Court has already been established, sadly.
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Oh it is, and her political intrusion put a verbal seal on it. Not
really a biggie it was unintentional but indicative of a bigger
problem. You have to wonder how many in the past have done this, and
though legal, it is unethical and inappropriate. She was right to speak
on this, reject the thinking as the boundary would only get bigger. The
two systems failing certainly has to be considered and with this further
widening the boundary imo.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:13 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
This CNN article discusses about in the
event the Supreme Court had to judge on the presidential election, Ruth
Bader Ginsburg would, "likely have to recuse herself": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/13/po...use/index.html
What about if she is still on the court and Donald Trump becomes
president and a case or cases involving his administration end up going
before the Supreme Court - would she probably have to recuse herself in
any case involving a Trump administration? |
Ruth Bader Ginsburg should be his running mate for Vice President!
He can promise to keep her for only the first half of his first term if
he wins the election in November. He can promise to replace Ginsburg
with the governor of New Mexico for the second half of his first term.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:14 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Hasn't the Rasmussen poll been the ONLY one that has consistently had Trump leading?
I never had any doubt it was going to be a very close election.
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There is still a long time between today and November.
Supposedly at 11 am tomorrow, Friday, Trump will announce his VP selection.
Tune in to Varney.
The president appoints around 5000 people to high office.
So, you decide if you want your foreign policy made by a left winger or a right winger.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:17 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Diplomacy is also a virtue.
In the words of the great philosopher, Kenny Rogers, "You've got to know
when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away."
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Your reference to Kenny Rogers was a gamble that paid off handsomely.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:18 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte RCMS
There is still a long time between today and November.
Supposedly at 11 am tomorrow, Friday, Trump will announce his VP selection.
Tune in to Varney.
The president appoints around 5000 people to high office.
So, you decide if you want your foreign policy made by a left winger or a right winger.
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I don't really care about political labels when it concerns
foreign policy. I want my foreign policy made by someone who has sound
knowledge, experience, intellect, diplomacy skills, and good judgment.
Let's see, that means I would prefer...none of the above.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:20 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC
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If she apologized she would be involving herself more in which she
regrets and rejects and she's right. She's back on point, you think she
should have made a public apology?
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Jul 14, '16, 8:29 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Hasn't the Rasmussen poll been the ONLY one that has consistently had Trump leading?
I never had any doubt it was going to be a very close election.
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Rasmussen hasn't had Trump leading in all their polls.
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Jul 14, '16, 8:43 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
Rasmussen hasn't had Trump leading in all their polls.
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No, but it's consistently been the outlier. If you look at Real Clear
Politics, there were something like two out of the past 20 polls that
had Trump leading and both were Rasmussen. But, yes, sometimes even
Rasmussen has had him behind.
Having said all that, I do think Trump will pull ahead in a lot of polls
next week during the convention. That's usually the way it goes.
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Jul 14, '16, 9:52 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
If she apologized she would be involving
herself more in which she regrets and rejects and she's right. She's
back on point, you think she should have made a public apology?
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I am not a big fan of public apologies. They are usually
disingenuous. I think expressing regret is all we are going to get. Now
she needs to lower her profile for a while.
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Jul 14, '16, 9:58 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC
I am not a big fan of public apologies.
They are usually disingenuous. I think expressing regret is all we are
going to get. Now she needs to lower her profile for a while.
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Isn't expressing regret the very definition of an apology?
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If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you -- Psalm 137
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Jul 14, '16, 10:11 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomarin
Isn't expressing regret the very definition of an apology?
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I think they are different. An apology implicitly admits that some
harm was committed and seeks forgiveness. Regret simply says that, in
retrospect, the person wishes they had acted differently. I can regret
choosing to eat ice cream for breakfast, without admitting it was wrong
or that doing so wronged another.
__________________
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Jul 14, '16, 10:13 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC
I think they are different. An apology
implicitly admits that some harm was committed and seeks forgiveness.
Regret simply says that, in retrospect, the person wishes they had acted
differently. I can regret choosing to eat ice cream for breakfast,
without admitting it was wrong or that doing so wronged another.
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Or I regret taking the car over the subway to work as I sit
stalled in traffic. I guess it depends a bit on the context, in this
case I interpreted her regret as the kind you encounter in an apology. I
see your point though.
__________________
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Jul 14, '16, 10:15 am
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomarin
Or I regret taking the car over the
subway to work as I sit stalled in traffic. I guess it depends a bit on
the context, in this case I interpreted her regret as the kind you
encounter in an apology. I see your point though.
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And I see yours.
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Jul 14, '16, 12:07 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/
BREAKING NEWS: Sources say Indiana gov abandoning re-election bid, all but certain to be Trump's VP pick
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(apologies if this is old news / already discussed)
Looks like VP will be Pence. I think this is on the whole a good move.
Pence brings stability and conservative credentials to the ticket. I
believe this will pull more conservatives and moderates than perhaps
Gingrich would have in the role of pitbull as VP. (Gingrich has high
negatives - I never really liked him.) Pence gives the ticket a kinder,
milder touch and he has solid credentials in terms of experience, the
Beltway, etc. (I predict this works with Republican women too.)
I think Gingrich stays on throughout the campaign anyway as kind of an
unofficial advisor and is also part of the cabinet, likely along with
Christie. In other words, Trump will have pitbulls out there with him,
just not two on the ticket. Trump is "new" "moderate" enough; nice to
have "stable" "conservative" as well in the mix. Trump's policies on
trade issues / immigration / taxes / economy, jobs, etc. will be the
attraction to the working class. (though I personally hope the wall is
shot down in favor of tougher adherence to current immigration law. I
think if Trump gave that to Ryan at the convention, i.e., removing it
from the platform, that would be an olive branch to Ryan conservatives
with far-reaching conciliatory effects. There is nothing stopping the
Republicans from just REALLY pushing adherence to immigration law unlike
the current President (deporting criminals; enforcing the border) -
that would be popular I think as an argument; better than "the wall")
__________________
 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Jul 14, '16, 12:14 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
(apologies if this is old news / already discussed)
Looks like VP will be Pence. I think this is on the whole a good move.
Pence brings stability and conservative credentials to the ticket. I
believe this will pull more conservatives and moderates than perhaps
Gingrich would have in the role of pitbull as VP. (Gingrich has high
negatives - I never really liked him.) Pence gives the ticket a kinder,
milder touch and he has solid credentials in terms of experience, the
Beltway, etc. (I predict this works with Republican women too.)
I think Gingrich stays on throughout the campaign anyway as kind of an
unofficial advisor and is also part of the cabinet, likely along with
Christie. In other words, Trump will have pitbulls out there with him,
just not two on the ticket. Trump is "new" "moderate" enough; nice to
have "stable" "conservative" as well in the mix. Trump's policies on
trade issues / immigration / taxes / economy, jobs, etc. will be the
attraction to the working class. (though I personally hope the wall is
shot down in favor of tougher adherence to current immigration law. I
think if Trump gave that to Ryan at the convention, i.e., removing it
from the platform, that would be an olive branch to Ryan conservatives
with far-reaching conciliatory effects. There is nothing stopping the
Republicans from just REALLY pushing adherence to immigration law unlike
the current President (deporting criminals; enforcing the border) -
that would be popular I think as an argument; better than "the wall")
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I don't see how Pence attracts more moderates than Gingrich since
the former is solidly conservative. He will most likely attract
conservatives and that's about it. Trump is really depending on a large
conservative turnout, including Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative
Catholics. Maybe some blue-collar workers as well, Reagan Democrats who
are wary of Clinton.
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Jul 14, '16, 12:28 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
I don't see how Pence attracts more
moderates than Gingrich since the former is solidly conservative. He
will most likely attract conservatives and that's about it. Trump is
really depending on a large conservative turnout, including
Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative Catholics. Maybe some
blue-collar workers as well, Reagan Democrats who are wary of Clinton.
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True, but a huge part of the NeverTrump wailing about Trump has
been his lack of solid conservative platform - Trump is actually close
to Sanders on trade. (though I think he is "open FAIR trade" ) He is
also supportive of progressive taxes and not slashing social programs
Ryan-style. Soft on social issues. The thinking (right or wrong) is that
this will appeal to moderates, independents. I think it might - Trump
is polling quite well with independents as we speak. Pence pulls the
base in theory. I think they are trying to eat their cake and have it
too. With the alternative being Hillary Clinton, I feel ok as of right
now anyway about their chances....
__________________
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Jul 14, '16, 12:35 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
True, but a huge part of the NeverTrump
wailing about Trump has been his lack of solid conservative platform -
Trump is actually close to Sanders on trade. (though I think he is "open
FAIR trade" ) He is also supportive of progressive taxes and not
slashing social programs Ryan-style. Soft on social issues. The thinking
(right or wrong) is that this will appeal to moderates, independents. I
think it might - Trump is polling quite well with independents as we
speak. Pence pulls the base in theory. I think they are trying to eat
their cake and have it too. With the alternative being Hillary Clinton, I
feel ok as of right now anyway about their chances....
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VP picks and the Presidential candidate often disagree on some
issues, but it seems like Pence and Trump disagree on almost everything.
I wonder how it will play out. The main thing Pence is known for
nationally is anti-gay legislation, which should hurt Trump's attempt to
show he is moderate on those issues. The main thing he is known for
from his time in Congress is his strong support for NAFTA and similar
trade deals - which is directly counter to one of Trump's main planks.
What issues do they align on? Other than adding a conservative resume to
the ticket, what does he bring? He is not known as a great campaigner. I
have read he is close to the Koch brothers, maybe he will convince them
to support Trump?
__________________
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Jul 14, '16, 12:41 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC
VP picks and the Presidential candidate
often disagree on some issues, but it seems like Pence and Trump
disagree on almost everything. I wonder how it will play out. The main
thing Pence is known for nationally is anti-gay legislation, which
should hurt Trump's attempt to show he is moderate on those issues. The
main thing he is known for from his time in Congress is his strong
support for NAFTA and similar trade deals - which is directly counter to
one of Trump's main planks.
What issues do they align on? Other than adding a conservative resume to
the ticket, what does he bring? He is not known as a great campaigner. I
have read he is close to the Koch brothers, maybe he will convince them
to support Trump?
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I just heard this may be premature - just a rumor it's Pence.
Pence as I understand it was the preferred choice of conservatives, the
GOP party freaked out by Trump. This is a bone being thrown to them;
also Trump genuinely likes and gets along with him and Pence has good
connnections / reputation on Capitol Hill. Nationally we don't know
anything really do we? He is a bit of a quiet, stable blank slate - on
the Trump ticket I think that is good.
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Jul 14, '16, 12:47 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
I just heard this may be premature - just
a rumor it's Pence. Pence as I understand it was the preferred choice
of conservatives, the GOP party freaked out by Trump. This is a bone
being thrown to them; also Trump genuinely likes and gets along with him
and Pence has good connnections / reputation on Capitol Hill.
Nationally we don't know anything really do we? He is a bit of a quiet,
stable blank slate - on the Trump ticket I think that is good.
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True. And the fact is that Trump did not have a lot of choices.
Many of those that would ordinarily be top contenders have declined to
be considered, so Pence may be the best of what is left.
__________________
Who are you to pass judgment on someone else's servant? Romans 14:4
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Jul 14, '16, 12:49 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC
True. And the fact is that Trump did not
have a lot of choices. Many of those that would ordinarily be top
contenders have declined to be considered, so Pence may be the best of
what is left.
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All is well that ends well....  
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Jul 14, '16, 12:58 pm
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Posts: 8,030
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
I don't see how Pence attracts more
moderates than Gingrich since the former is solidly conservative. He
will most likely attract conservatives and that's about it. Trump is
really depending on a large conservative turnout, including
Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative Catholics. Maybe some
blue-collar workers as well, Reagan Democrats who are wary of Clinton.
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MB, do you know how many Reagan Democrats voted for Obama or when
was the last time they actually voted Democratic on the national level
anyway? I wonder too how many blue collar workers know that Donald Trump
previously said wages in America are actually too high?
__________________
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is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong."
(Pope Francis)
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Jul 14, '16, 1:08 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Wow it's even worse than I expected for Donald Trump (and I didn't
expect a lot). He received 0% support from black voters in Ohio and
Pennsylvania. And among white voters in PA he was tied with SOS Clinton,
where overall the Democrat was ahead by 9 pts.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...ia-nbc-n609026
__________________
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it
is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong."
(Pope Francis)
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Jul 14, '16, 1:47 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: December 19, 2013
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
I don't see how Pence attracts more
moderates than Gingrich since the former is solidly conservative. He
will most likely attract conservatives and that's about it. Trump is
really depending on a large conservative turnout, including
Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative Catholics. Maybe some
blue-collar workers as well, Reagan Democrats who are wary of Clinton.
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Tony Perkins is weighing in against Pence and he has sway with
Evangelicals. The Mormons won't have anything to do with Trump. I don't
think Trump (at this point in time) can count on all of the standard
base. This really limits him.
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Jul 14, '16, 2:02 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Tidings
Tony Perkins is weighing in against Pence
and he has sway with Evangelicals. The Mormons won't have anything to
do with Trump. I don't think Trump (at this point in time) can count on
all of the standard base. This really limits him.
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Yes, I realize the Mormons are not all in Trump's corner. But why is Tony Perkins against Pence?
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Jul 14, '16, 2:03 pm
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Banned
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Tidings
Tony Perkins is weighing in against Pence
and he has sway with Evangelicals. The Mormons won't have anything to
do with Trump. I don't think Trump (at this point in time) can count on
all of the standard base. This really limits him.
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Who will the Mormons vote for then?
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Jul 14, '16, 2:08 pm
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Forum Elder
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy Noe
MB, do you know how many Reagan Democrats
voted for Obama or when was the last time they actually voted
Democratic on the national level anyway? I wonder too how many blue
collar workers know that Donald Trump previously said wages in America
are actually too high?
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Sorry, I don't have the specific details on the Reagan Democrats'
pattern of voting. I think if Trump can at least split the blue-collar
vote and get the major share, he may carry some of the battleground
Midwestern states, which he probably needs.
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Jul 14, '16, 2:08 pm
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Senior Member
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Trump is ahead by 7 points in the last Rasmussen poll and tied in the
latest CBS/NYT poll. I am quite surprised at that. The election is back
to a tossup - in the margin of error.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-5491.html
I think this might explain the surging panic/fury from the cyberleft et
al. (high and low) Just a general caveat. (think Ruth Ginsberg)
__________________
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Jul 14, '16, 2:09 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph3
Who will the Mormons vote for then?
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Good question. As a group, surely not Hillary. Some may sit this one out, I suppose.
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Jul 14, '16, 2:13 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: June 27, 2016
Posts: 504
Religion: agnostic
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy
Good question. As a group, surely not Hillary. Some may sit this one out, I suppose.
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My Mormon friends are big Bernie supporters, who will be voting for Hillary I presume.
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Jul 14, '16, 2:14 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: March 17, 2016
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strydersroom
My Mormon friends are big Bernie supporters, who will be voting for Hillary I presume.
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Why would Mormons support a materialistic socialist over Christian Donald Trump?
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Jul 14, '16, 2:17 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: June 27, 2016
Posts: 504
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph3
Why would Mormons support a materialistic socialist over Christian Donald Trump?
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Perhaps because they see Trump as a vulgar, profane, pandering
Demagogue who is using fear and prejudice to gain votes. Not to mention
his racist statements about the "Mexican" judge being biased, and his
anti immigration/muslim ideals. Or at least that's how I see Trump. 
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Jul 14, '16, 2:19 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: March 31, 2013
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Religion: Christian
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph3
Why would Mormons support a materialistic socialist over Christian Donald Trump?
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They wouldn't. A Mormon in any real sense of the word would walk
across hot coals before supporting HRC. I think most to all will vote
for Trump; they tend to follow Evangelical voting patterns. And I think
the Evangelicals like and will vote for Trump (remember the South) in
spite of everything. They've already demonstrated that - they picked
Trump over Cruz. That is why we are where we are, at least one of the
main reasons....
__________________
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Jul 14, '16, 4:00 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strydersroom
My Mormon friends are big Bernie supporters, who will be voting for Hillary I presume.
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I have two devout Mormon friends (both women) who are
enthusiastically voting for Clinton. That's anecdotal, of course, but I
found it interesting.
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Jul 14, '16, 4:02 pm
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Regular Member
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph3
Why would Mormons support a materialistic socialist over Christian Donald Trump?
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Hillary is way more devoutly Christian than Trump. One of the
reasons so many Republican leaders actually like her is that she
attended prayer meetings with them in the White House for years. You may
not like Hillary or her policies, but if you know anything about her,
you know that her Christianity means a great deal to her and informs her
worldview. Trump, not so much.
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Jul 14, '16, 4:06 pm
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Forum Elder
Prayer Warrior
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
I have two devout Mormon friends (both
women) who are enthusiastically voting for Clinton. That's anecdotal, of
course, but I found it interesting.
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Are they liberals? Registered Democrats? Because if they are, it's pretty predictable they would support Hillary Clinton.
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Jul 14, '16, 4:11 pm
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
Hillary is way more devoutly Christian
than Trump. One of the reasons so many Republican leaders actually like
her is that she attended prayer meetings with them in the White House
for years. You may not like Hillary or her policies, but if you know
anything about her, you know that her Christianity means a great deal to
her and informs her worldview. Trump, not so much.
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So Christian that she not only supports the slaughter of innocents, she works tirelessly to keep it legal.
So Christian that she thinks that the millenniums old institution of
marriage should allow same sex couples to marry, despite the fact that
the Bible and all mainline faiths (until very recently) are/were against
it.
So Christian that she seems to think the sin of lying does not apply to her.
So Christian that she recently said, "And deep-seated cultural codes,
religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed." Toss out
those Bibles and Catechisms folks.
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Jul 14, '16, 4:13 pm
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Veteran Member
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpatrick
So Christian that she not only supports the slaughter of innocents, she works tirelessly to keep it legal.
So Christian that she thinks a millenniums old institution of marriage
is open up to allowing same sex couples to marry, despite the fact that
the Bible and all mainline faiths (until very recently) are/were against
it.
So Christian that she seems to think the sin of lying does not apply to her.
So Christian that she recently said, "And deep-seated cultural codes,
religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed." Toss out
those Bibles and Catechisms folks.
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*claps* 
__________________
-Lou (Louis)
Deus meus et omnia!
Totus Tuus! Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us.
Let all the brothers, however, preach by their deeds. -San Francesco d'Assisi
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Jul 14, '16, 4:16 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: October 14, 2008
Posts: 9,846
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
*claps* |
The sad thing is, many Catholics are right there with her and the Democrats in general.
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Jul 14, '16, 4:31 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: March 17, 2007
Posts: 10,218
Religion: Roman Catholic (Ordo Franciscanus Saecularis-OFS)
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpatrick
The sad thing is, many Catholics are right there with her and the Democrats in general.
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It used to make me angry and embarrassed. Now it just makes me sad.
__________________
-Lou (Louis)
Deus meus et omnia!
Totus Tuus! Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us.
Let all the brothers, however, preach by their deeds. -San Francesco d'Assisi
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Jul 14, '16, 4:55 pm
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Senior Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: November 30, 2011
Posts: 8,073
Religion: Byzantine Catholic ☦
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
It used to make me angry and embarrassed. Now it just makes me sad.
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Same here
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Jul 14, '16, 5:30 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: October 14, 2008
Posts: 9,846
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
It used to make me angry and embarrassed. Now it just makes me sad.
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Same here. 
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Jul 14, '16, 7:46 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: March 7, 2012
Posts: 4,901
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
It used to make me angry and embarrassed. Now it just makes me sad.
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I feel that way about the overall state of our nation, especially
now that these two have come to be the nominations by the will of the
people.  
__________________
“Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love,
yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you.
I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”.
- Pope Francis
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Jul 14, '16, 8:15 pm
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Regular Member
Forum Supporter
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Join Date: July 3, 2011
Posts: 3,714
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Donald Trump Thread
From what I've read, Trump is like many successful business people, more
interested in making money than in promoting Jesus. In that, he is no
better than what many in these forums accuse Hillary Clinton of. He may
actually be worse. Hillary has actually tried to follow what she thinks
are Christian behaviors, while Donald has only been concerned about his
10 billion worth.
__________________
'Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight
rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is
worthless.'
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James 1:26
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