Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstheriot
I absolutely do.
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Cool  , at this point I think Cruz "needs every friend he can get", as they say.  
Quote:
| I guess what I was getting at is: Let's say Trump becomes the nominee.
What can I do to show that I am absolutely horrified by the ideas that I
see. Like mocking disables, calling for violence, calling for killing
of families and kids, etc. I know that voting and supporting a different
candidate is one way, but what do I do when most people just seem to
ignore these facts?
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Good question. I don't have a specific plan for if Trump becomes
the nominee; but I'm hoping, if we one day face that reality, I'll
honestly say "Well, I've tried my best not to let this happen."
Mar 16, '16, 12:51 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
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Of all the things said about Trump, to me this is the least
worrisome, if it's worthy of worry at all. There are at least "two" of
everybody. There is the lawyer who is sometimes solicitous and kind,
then hard-edged and entrapping. There is the businessman who drives a
stiff bargain, but then sends the counterparty a turkey at Thanksgiving.
There is the kindly doctor who sometimes gets stern with his patient
when the patient does not follow advice. There is the priest who is
kindly, but nevertheless refuses to budge when we try to justify bad
behavior like leaving our spouse for the "true love of my life".
My only objection to the statement is that there are probably more than just two Donald Trumps, as is true of almost everybody.
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Mar 16, '16, 12:52 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by chero23
This topic seems confusing to me.
Both sides always talk about Israel being our friend, yet I have seen people say Israel should not have our support.
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I'd be a little careful with that. In today's PC society a lot of
people support Palestine in large part because they want to impress
Muslims, but if one talks to Arabs and Muslims in Israel, many of them,
it's been reported, do not want a religious Islamic government like
their neighbors have.
Also, it's 
today by progressive standards to not support Israel, although one
wonders why since many of the countries in the region do exactly what
liberals hysterically accuse the TEA PARTY of wanting to do and then
some.
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"Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical
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Mar 16, '16, 1:01 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
I guess the question is: are you okay
with Sen Cruz (who, I have to admit, was not my first choice)? Enough so
to help us nominate him (and thereby stop Trump)?
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Well, I've gone from Walker to Carson to Cruz. If the people who
want to stop Trump take their mission seriously, they need to stop
backing Bernie and Kasich and get on board.
1) Sanders was never going to get the DNC nomination. The Democratic
Party system is rigged. And I know some of the Sanders supporters aren't
"democratic socialists" but are just sending the DNC a message. Sanders
will not be the nominee.
2) Regarding Kasich, the GOP will be hard pressed to give the nomination
to someone who probably won't even win 15% of the primary vote and is
seen as more establishment. Kasich has good numbers against Clinton for
now, but his niceness would be perfect prey for the Clinton Machine. So
on the hand, Trump is very bombastic, on the other, Kasich has the soft
touch.
The balance here is Cruz. And he's in second and is the only one who can stop Trump from being the nominee.
__________________
"The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin
"Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical
"...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous
Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A
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Mar 16, '16, 1:05 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
"Those who love Trump—and those who loathe him—should think more carefully about the importance of free speech."
"As
with Islam, it’s best not to question the belief system of the left,
because it is protected by strict blasphemy laws. If you disagree with
the tenets of leftists, you are not, from their perspective, entitled to
your opinion, you are committing blasphemy. And you deserve to be
punished."
The Left's War On Free Speech
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Mar 16, '16, 1:10 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomdstone
I think that Trump's neutral stance
toward Israel and Palestine makes sense. A party that claims to be a
peacemaker should not take sides before negotiations begin.
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As the leader of the free world, I don't think the United States
can take a neutral stance. It works for Switzerland, but their entire
population is only about 7-8 million. People don't care too much what
side their on, if any.
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Mar 16, '16, 1:19 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperLuigi
The Democratic Party system is rigged. .
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Fiorina says that the Republican system is rigged. If the whole
American system is rigged, then I guess that America is not the great
democratic republic it claims to be.
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Mar 16, '16, 1:20 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
The irony of this is the word neutral becomes pretty much non sequitur
if one stands with Israel which Trump does in order to mediate an
Israeli/Palestinian peace deal. But I believe what he is saying is he
would like an opportunity to attempt to negotiate.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0e098...-toughest-deal
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Mar 16, '16, 1:23 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
"Those who love Trump—and those who loathe him—should think more carefully about the importance of free speech."
"As
with Islam, it’s best not to question the belief system of the left,
because it is protected by strict blasphemy laws. If you disagree with
the tenets of leftists, you are not, from their perspective, entitled to
your opinion, you are committing blasphemy. And you deserve to be
punished."
The Left's War On Free Speech
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Good article, and imo we have been speaking on two separate issues
right along. Free Speech being the priority, Trump being a secondary
consideration.
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Mar 16, '16, 1:40 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner
Of all the things said about Trump, to me
this is the least worrisome, if it's worthy of worry at all. There are
at least "two" of everybody. There is the lawyer who is sometimes
solicitous and kind, then hard-edged and entrapping. There is the
businessman who drives a stiff bargain, but then sends the counterparty a
turkey at Thanksgiving. There is the kindly doctor who sometimes gets
stern with his patient when the patient does not follow advice. There is
the priest who is kindly, but nevertheless refuses to budge when we try
to justify bad behavior like leaving our spouse for the "true love of
my life".
My only objection to the statement is that there are probably more than just two Donald Trumps, as is true of almost everybody.
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This is so well said!!!
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Mar 16, '16, 1:43 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomdstone
Fiorina says that the Republican system is rigged.
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Oh please. 
Clearly the "rigged game" you referred to was the criteria that had
been set concerning who got invited to the debate. She never said the
Republican system is rigged.
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Mar 16, '16, 1:55 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Oh please.
Clearly the "rigged game" you referred to was the criteria that had
been set concerning who got invited to the debate. She never said the
Republican system is rigged. |
But it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkET3LthemY
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Mar 16, '16, 1:56 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
As the leader of the free world, I don't
think the United States can take a neutral stance. It works for
Switzerland, but their entire population is only about 7-8 million.
People don't care too much what side their on, if any.
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I agree. We are a country of importers and exporters. You can't stop them on a dime.
As for making this country "great," the dollar is already the default currency of the world and can't be much stronger.
But this guy is able to procure loans, whether coming out of bankruptcy
or not. So if he can keep bamboozling the banks and his investors, then
there should be no problem with running for President.
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Mar 16, '16, 2:14 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWolf
But it is.
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Well, maybe.  I don't deny that in South Carolina's primary, one candidate got 32.5% of the votes but 100% of the delegates.
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Mar 16, '16, 2:22 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Well, maybe. I don't deny that in South Carolina's primary, one candidate got 32.5% of the votes but 100% of the delegates. |
I voted in Illinois yesterday and it's baffling the way the primaries are run.
I could choose one of ten to be the nominee (or not) but I could vote
for up to 3 delegates who might represent different candidates
altogether.
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Mar 16, '16, 2:35 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
FollowChrist34, you asked if I think
Trump will run third-party if he doesn't win the GOP nominations. I
don't know if he would; but I say let him take the low road if he wants
to. Much better than him getting the nomination and us taking the low
road (i.e. running Kasich or whoever as our own third-party candidate).
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I agree.
But it remains to be seen if Trump can even be stopped from winning the
1237 delegates numerically. We need to watch momentum in the next
several weeks. Will it be Cruz or Kasich or Trump consolidating/running
the table - what happens when C/K voters clash along the inevitable
conservative / moderate fault lines? Everything is up in the air. Trump
has a good chance to build internal support from here, at least
partially.
In the GOP overall, how many non-Trumpers cave, how many hold? Even on
Fox News you can just see the Republican commentators going to Trump;
others resisting. This is playing itself out everywhere in the party,
all levels. And, no matter who goes 3rd party (and I sincerely hope one
of us does - Trumpers v NonTrumpers) this splits the vote roughly 60-40,
somewhere in there. I know we are all focused on stopping Trump (and
the Trumpers are focused on winning the nomination), but at some point
we have to get to this math - we are divided more or less in
half....against the Dems. I mean I was an English major and I can figure
out that math in November....and please don't tell me that Cruz will
unite us all and defeat Hillary. The larger existential problem here is
that there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
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Mar 16, '16, 3:54 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Oh please.
Clearly the "rigged game" you referred to was the criteria that had
been set concerning who got invited to the debate. She never said the
Republican system is rigged. |
"The fact that I’m not on that debate stage is proof positive that the game is rigged,” Fiorina said. “The game is rigged.”
Firiona observed that, early in the campaign, RNC officials said they
had to use polls as a benchmark because of the number of candidates.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...tem-is-rigged/
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Mar 16, '16, 4:07 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Can a Catholic in good conscience vote for Trump?
March 16, 2016 4:48 PM
(perhaps this is posted elsewhere). Wow. Not much more to say. (I guess
we each take it from here on our own conscience - another argument for
Kasich or Cruz I guess  - which is fair enough)
Quote:
Fr. Thomas Petri, academic dean at the Dominican House of Studies in
Washington, D.C., added that when all available political candidates
support intrinsically evil acts, “Faithful Citizenship” makes clear that
the faithful are permitted to vote for the candidate whom they believe
will “do less damage.”
“Catholics must be careful to understand the very grave and immoral
positions that Trump espouses both politically and in his personal life.
If they vote for him, it cannot be because of his partisanship or
because of those grave immoral positions, but because a Catholic, in
good conscience, after reviewing the situation, may believe that Trump
is the lesser evil of all possible candidates,” Fr. Petri said.
“In this election cycle, should Clinton and Trump be the two nominees
for the presidential election, Catholics must either not vote or choose
one after serious and careful consideration,” he continued. “We
Catholics are not permitted to vote for either flippantly or as a matter
of routine.”
Stephen White, a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center in
Washington, D.C., warned Catholics against voting for Trump simply to
stop pro-abortion Hillary Clinton.
“A Trump presidency would be a disaster for life, the family, and
religious freedom, and that’s before we get to Mr. Trump’s poisonous
xenophobia,” he stated, adding that “Trump cares not a whit for Catholic
concerns on these issues.”
“Trump is also a savvy negotiator,” he added, and could very well use
pro-life and other good causes as trade bait in political negotiations
with the opposing party.
“It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world…but for Trump?”
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http://www.catholicworldreport.com/N...r-trump-76894/
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Mar 16, '16, 4:10 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
What did the good Father say about voting for HRC or Bernie?
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Totus Tuus! Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us.
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Mar 16, '16, 4:11 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
What did the good Father say about voting for HRC or Bernie? |
Roughly the same thing he said about Trump .
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Mar 16, '16, 4:13 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
Roughly the same thing he said about Trump . |
OK 
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Deus meus et omnia!
Totus Tuus! Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us.
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Mar 16, '16, 4:56 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
What did the good Father say about voting for HRC or Bernie? |
I would hope that people would know already what the answer to
that would be. But when it comes to Trump, many seem to have some kind
of blinders on. (I guess that's how he manages to be Teflon Don.)
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Mar 16, '16, 5:22 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
Can a Catholic in good conscience vote for Trump?
March 16, 2016 4:48 PM
(perhaps this is posted elsewhere). Wow. Not much more to say. (I guess
we each take it from here on our own conscience - another argument for
Kasich or Cruz I guess - which is fair enough)
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/N...r-trump-76894/
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This is why I very well might write in my own name on my ballot.
And I'm not being facetious. I refuse to vote for HRC and cannot fathom,
under any circumstances, voting for Trump.
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Mar 16, '16, 5:28 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Catholic League Demands Apology From Trump Spokeswoman Over Anti-Catholic Tweet
Karina Pierson spokesperson for Trump use to work on Cruz campaign...no
one really vetted this person...anti-chistian and anti-Catholic. Has
unique history of distortion, past history that few no about.
The nation’s largest Catholic civil rights organization is demanding an
apology from Trump campaign spokeswoman Katrina Pierson for a tweet in
which she openly mocked the Catholic Church. Bill Donohue, the president
of the Catholic League, said that he also wants Donald Trump to give
assurances that he will not tolerate anti-Catholicism in his campaign.
“No one makes a comment like this without harboring an animus against
Catholicism. It would be instructive to learn more about Pierson’s
thoughts on the subject. Perhaps she can share them with us,” Donohue
said in a press release on Monday. “In the meantime, Pierson needs to
apologize to Catholics for making such a snide remark. We would also
like to hear assurances from Donald Trump that he will not tolerate
anti-Catholicism in his campaign.”
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Mar 16, '16, 5:29 pm
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Prominent conservative Catholics have a message: Stop Trump
Although this happened last week, I haven't seen it mentioned on CAF (bolding mine).
Quote:
A group of conservative Catholics is appealing to their fellow believers
in a last-ditch effort to stop Donald Trump from becoming the GOP
presidential nominee, writing in an essay published by the National
Review that the frontrunner is “manifestly unfit to be president of the United States.”
The essay, “An Appeal to Our Fellow Catholics,” was co-written by
Princeton professor Robert P. George and St. John Paul II biographer
George Weigel, and it is co-signed by about three dozen lay Catholics,
many of whom are active in conservative academic and nonprofit circles.
Together, they urge Catholics “to reject [Trump’s] candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination by supporting a genuinely reformist candidate.”
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http://www.cruxnow.com/life/2016/03/...elatedArticles
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Mar 16, '16, 5:50 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abynissa
Catholic League Demands Apology From Trump Spokeswoman Over Anti-Catholic Tweet
Karina Pierson spokesperson for Trump use to work on Cruz campaign...no
one really vetted this person...anti-chistian and anti-Catholic. Has
unique history of distortion, past history that few no about.
The nation’s largest Catholic civil rights organization is demanding an
apology from Trump campaign spokeswoman Katrina Pierson for a tweet in
which she openly mocked the Catholic Church. Bill Donohue, the president
of the Catholic League, said that he also wants Donald Trump to give
assurances that he will not tolerate anti-Catholicism in his campaign.
“No one makes a comment like this without harboring an animus against
Catholicism. It would be instructive to learn more about Pierson’s
thoughts on the subject. Perhaps she can share them with us,” Donohue
said in a press release on Monday. “In the meantime, Pierson needs to
apologize to Catholics for making such a snide remark. We would also
like to hear assurances from Donald Trump that he will not tolerate
anti-Catholicism in his campaign.”
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So her tweet basically showed that she didn't believe the catholic
church was started by Jesus. That, unfortunately, is probably a common
understanding among protestants.
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Mar 16, '16, 6:31 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomdstone
Fiorina says that the Republican system
is rigged. If the whole American system is rigged, then I guess that
America is not the great democratic republic it claims to be.
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Probably not, and that sounds good to a lot of people and if
posted on a place like Y! or youtube, it'd probably get hundreds and
hundres thumbs up...
that is, until things like so-called gay"marriage", farm subsidies and
football stadium financing or a private grievance of things past get put
on the table.
Then it's a whole new ballgame, one where a lot of Americans seem willing to give up their freedom.
__________________
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"Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical
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Mar 16, '16, 6:34 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by on_the_hill
This is why I very well might write in my
own name on my ballot. And I'm not being facetious. I refuse to vote
for HRC and cannot fathom, under any circumstances, voting for Trump.
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Well, the pro-choice powers that be will take that every single
time. And I have yet to see a write-in or a Virgil Goode voter come back
on here or elsewhere and say their private, exact principles were worth
it.
__________________
"The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin
"Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical
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Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A
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Mar 16, '16, 6:43 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele
What did the good Father say about voting for HRC or Bernie? |
I don't see how anyone regardless of standing or qualification can
be taken seriously about commenting a voting for a third-party
candidate without examining the ill side-effects of it, including the
most likely (as in basically 100%) of the election of not only a
pro-choice candidate, but one will appoint a justice that will undo
cases like Hobby Lobby.
Sometimes, I suspect this is just a selfish move so that said
person/group can look good in front of their secular liberal friends for
not voting GOP but technically still vote pro-life. So in other words,
thinking they can have their cake and eat it too.
The Catholic Voter's Guide makes the option very clear about voting for
someone who we know will lose and will just help someone worse win.
__________________
"The left is no longer liberal"-----Dave Rubin
"Social network censorship----SEE HOW FAR THEY GET WITH IT!!!!!" --------from Social Justice the Musical
"...censorship begins with me, but will end with you". --Milo Yiannapolous
Hate speech = free speech #1A #2A
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Mar 16, '16, 6:51 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperLuigi
I don't see how anyone regardless of
standing or qualification can be taken seriously about commenting a
voting for a third-party candidate without examining the ill
side-effects of it, including the most likely (as in basically 100%) of
the election of not only a pro-choice candidate, but one will appoint a
justice that will undo cases like Hobby Lobby.
Sometimes, I suspect this is just a selfish move so that said
person/group can look good in front of their secular liberal friends for
not voting GOP but technically still vote pro-life. So in other words,
thinking they can have their cake and eat it too.
The Catholic Voter's Guide makes the option very clear about voting for
someone who we know will lose and will just help someone worse win.
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Ditto this!
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Mar 16, '16, 7:14 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
So her tweet basically showed that she
didn't believe the catholic church was started by Jesus. That,
unfortunately, is probably a common understanding among protestants.
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I know a lot of Protestants, and most of them believe Jesus
founded the Catholic Church. They know Catholicism was Christianity
itself until the Reformation in the 16th century. They know a lot about
their own denominations and know who started them.
I think this mistake was Katrina's, and she should apologize. She
doesn't strike me as knowing much about church history, though.
Mar 30, '16, 4:07 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Abortion is illegal in Brazil, yet they have more abortions per-capita
than in the United States, where it is legal. So some sort of
consequence needs to be in place to curb the number of abortions.
There are already many states with laws that charge double-murder against anyone who kills a pregnant woman.
if someone asks what should be the penalty if abortion were to become illegal, the answer is simple:
1) The woman should be given medical attention, being that abortion is
not a medical procedure, but rather does violence to a woman's body.
2) The woman should be told the truth that abortion actually kills a
human being. Women who have abortions are told that the conception is
not a human life. Long term psychological counseling should also be made
available for women who have had abortions. The realization of
destroying one's own child is a painful experience.
3) Doctors who perform abortions should lose their "medical" license,
fined severely, and tried for killing a human being. Fines should go
directly to fund adoption agencies.
Furthermore, taxpayer money which currently funds Planned Parenthood
abortion mills should be switched over to promote, fund and support
adoption agencies. In the case of a conception resulting from rape, the
woman should have full medical, psychological counseling and financial
support through the birth of the little boy or girl, who would be given
up for adoption.
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Mar 30, '16, 4:10 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: March 31, 2013
Posts: 6,324
Religion: Christian
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner
In reality, George Bush was the most
"Catholic" president this country has ever had since Kennedy, and
possibly even considering Kennedy.
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I never voted for him, never really liked or hated him while he
was in office. When the Iraq war thing went south and he became so
insanely unpopular (people were throwing shoes at him at press
conferences abroad), I got on the hate bandwagon - well, one thing,
Katrina, really did upset me, where he just sat in the airplane and New
Orleans basically sank.
In 2008 (actually a year or two earlier) I hopped right on the Obama
bandwagon (largely because I sensed he could win; he had star,
Kennedy-like appeal - that was pretty much it). But to be honest, I
never really understood why we all hated Bush so much. We lost like 4500
people in Iraq, right? A tragedy, yes, of course. Do you know how many
people we lost in Vietnam, Korea, WWII? My God. And we tried to re-build
Iraq with peaceful men there - we tried so hard not to disrupt civilian
life in Iraq or Afghanistan, even during bombing, invasion. Yet
everyone acted like Bush was Attila the Hun. It was surreal, Emperor's
new clothes to me - all along - I rarely admit that though. Especially
when you look at GOP candidates this time around - he looks pretty darn
good.
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 30, '16, 4:25 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
Trump knows that a law banning all previable abortions will never make it through Congress anyway.
He's merely throwing meat to pro-lifers.
Jim
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Mar 30, '16, 4:26 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Advocating the punishment of women for abortion has always been a tactic
of the pro-abortion movement, not of the pro-life movement. Because
advocating for punishing women works to make it easier to keep abortion
legalized.
In fact, if Roe V Wade were reversed tomorrow, states would revert to
the abortion laws in place before Roe. Those laws provided punishment
for abortionists, not women.
Because Trump had not thought this through, and not been familiar with pro-life organizations, he fell into the trap.
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Mar 30, '16, 4:29 pm
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Forum Supporter
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
Trump knows that a law banning all previable abortions will never make it through Congress anyway.
He's merely throwing meat to pro-lifers.
Jim
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And it turned out they were vegetarians (except for fish and chicken).
__________________
'Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight
rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is
worthless.'
James 1:26
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Mar 30, '16, 4:50 pm
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Forum Master
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Join Date: November 12, 2012
Posts: 15,728
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Re: Trump Thread
Just watched the Cruz said that he won't support trump if he's the nominee if. I hope he keeps his word.
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Mar 30, '16, 4:55 pm
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Forum Master
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Join Date: November 12, 2012
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Re: Trump Thread
Just saw on cnn and Fox News that trump changed his position on abortion
again. I keep saying, this man even though a lot say he's a republican
he's anti abortion, is not anti abortion.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...l?intcmp=hpbt3
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Mar 30, '16, 4:55 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by chero23
Just watched the Cruz said that he won't support trump if he's the nominee if. I hope he keeps his word.
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it will be easy for him to keep his word; first because he would
be in the outer darkness with Trump anyway, and secondly because I don't
think his personality allows for forgiving and forgetting.
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Mar 30, '16, 4:59 pm
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Regular Member
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Advocating the punishment of women for
abortion has always been a tactic of the pro-abortion movement, not of
the pro-life movement. Because advocating for punishing women works to
make it easier to keep abortion legalized.
In fact, if Roe V Wade were reversed tomorrow, states would revert to
the abortion laws in place before Roe. Those laws provided punishment
for abortionists, not women.
Because Trump had not thought this through, and not been familiar with pro-life organizations, he fell into the trap.
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Trump revealed his true feelings. This does not constitute a "trap" in any way, shape, or form.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:03 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: May 23, 2004
Posts: 28,250
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan2
Trump revealed his true feelings. This does not constitute a "trap" in any way, shape, or form.
|
Given the fact that he reversed himself, I don't know if he
revealed his true feelings or not. He did seem to give the appearance
that he had never considered the matter until being hit with an
unexpected question. Had he been even somewhat familiar with mainstream
pro-life organizations, he should have known that advocating punishment
for women has always been a pro-abortion ploy, not a pro-life position.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:09 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
I never voted for him, never really liked
or hated him while he was in office. When the Iraq war thing went south
and he became so insanely unpopular (people were throwing shoes at him
at press conferences abroad), I got on the hate bandwagon - well, one
thing, Katrina, really did upset me, where he just sat in the airplane
and New Orleans basically sank.
In 2008 (actually a year or two earlier) I hopped right on the Obama
bandwagon (largely because I sensed he could win; he had star,
Kennedy-like appeal - that was pretty much it). But to be honest, I
never really understood why we all hated Bush so much. We lost like 4500
people in Iraq, right? A tragedy, yes, of course. Do you know how many
people we lost in Vietnam, Korea, WWII? My God. And we tried to re-build
Iraq with peaceful men there - we tried so hard not to disrupt civilian
life in Iraq or Afghanistan, even during bombing, invasion. Yet
everyone acted like Bush was Attila the Hun. It was surreal, Emperor's
new clothes to me - all along - I rarely admit that though. Especially
when you look at GOP candidates this time around - he looks pretty darn
good.
|
Bush was, in my belief, a better human being than Trump or Cruz.
Whether he was a better administrator than either of them would be is
uncertain to me. Bush let congress run wild with pork and rarely opposed
it. Cruz, I think, will find himself with a congress that will not be
very supportive of him no matter who the congress people turn out to be.
Trump might have the ability to manage this nearly unmanageable
government....at least to some degree.
Iraq became increasingly unpopular in the same way Vietnam did. The
media was quiet about it at first, when it was most popular. Then, as it
ground on, the media made him out a monster and the war a product of a
lie Bush never told. Might we have won Vietnam had we persevered? Hard
to know. Some say yes and some say no; people of some wisdom and
knowledge.
As to Iraq, we had it won. Even Obama admitted it and claimed victory
for himself. Al Quaeda gave up. ISIS moved its efforts to Syria where
opposition was weaker. The Sunni tribal leaders, the Sistani Shia (the
majority) and the Kurds all begged us to stay in force longer, to guard
the peace. Because Obama promised to exit Iraq, we did, against the
advice of the Joint Chiefs, Iraq and Obama's own CIA chief, all of whom
warned him that leaving too soon would turn it over to a war between
Iranian-backed Shia and oil state-backed Sunni radicals.
And so it happened, and Bush has had enough class to keep his own
comments about the debacle to himself, despite the fact that he could
say a great deal about it.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:16 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: March 31, 2013
Posts: 6,324
Religion: Christian
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Given the fact that he reversed himself, I
don't know if he revealed his true feelings or not. He did seem to give
the appearance that he had never considered the matter until being hit
with an unexpected question. Had he been even somewhat familiar with
mainstream pro-life organizations, he should have known that advocating
punishment for women has always been a pro-abortion ploy, not a pro-life
position.
|
Exactly. Major flub. But this is what we have come to expect from
the endless Trump media cycles, right? We praise it as spontaneity,
sincerity, breaking all the rules - well, some do, anyway. Others not so
much.
(if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...probably not Abraham Lincoln)
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:24 pm
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Forum Master
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Join Date: November 12, 2012
Posts: 15,728
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner
it will be easy for him to keep his word;
first because he would be in the outer darkness with Trump anyway, and
secondly because I don't think his personality allows for forgiving and
forgetting.
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I wouldn't forgive trump either. If someone spoke bad about my
mom, trust me she's been an honorable women. I wouldn't forgive them.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:26 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Given the fact that he reversed himself, I
don't know if he revealed his true feelings or not. He did seem to give
the appearance that he had never considered the matter until being hit
with an unexpected question. Had he been even somewhat familiar with
mainstream pro-life organizations, he should have known that advocating
punishment for women has always been a pro-abortion ploy, not a pro-life
position.
|
I truly don't understand this: how punishment of women in any way,
shape or form is automatically considered pro-choice not pro-life. This
doesn't make any sense at all to me. I understand compassion and mercy
and all that, but if something is wrong, consequences are there. How is
even talking about consequences for the woman automatically a
pro-abortion ploy?
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Mar 30, '16, 5:30 pm
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Regular Member
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Posts: 1,297
Religion: Catholic - gender, female
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Re: Trump Thread
Have I missed anything or have folks commented already on the
resignation of Trump's strategist Stephanie Cegielski? She wasn't
exactly complimentary in what she said!
__________________
A Te numquam separari permittas - never let me be parted from You
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Mar 30, '16, 5:34 pm
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Senior Member
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Posts: 8,066
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Even some degree of complicity in what some of us consider to be murder, has to be punishable under the law.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:35 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATeNumquam
Have I missed anything or have folks
commented already on the resignation of Trump's strategist Stephanie
Cegielski? She wasn't exactly complimentary in what she said! |
She was not a trump strategist! She worked for a pro-trump pac,
which was altogether denounced by trump because he didn't want a super
pac.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:37 pm
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Junior Member
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Posts: 272
Religion: catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Trump Campaign Manager: Ted Cruz Had Nothing To Do With Melania Trump Ad
http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016...ania-trump-ad/
__________________
"The obligation of every human being to God, is higher than his duty to
country, and not even a majority in society has the legitimate right to
interfere with a man's allegiance to divine authority."
James Madison
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Mar 30, '16, 5:38 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: May 23, 2004
Posts: 28,250
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
I truly don't understand this: how
punishment of women in any way, shape or form is automatically
considered pro-choice not pro-life. This doesn't make any sense at all
to me. I understand compassion and mercy and all that, but if something
is wrong, consequences are there. How is even talking about consequences
for the woman automatically a pro-abortion ploy?
|
As I mentioned previously, punishment of women was not a part of
most abortion laws prior to 1973. Given the fact that Roe v Wade made
abortion legal through all nine months of pregnancy, and that abortion
has now been legal for 43 years, it is the pro-abortion side which now
drags out the specter, never before an actuality, of extreme punishment
for women. That does have the effect of being an argument for keeping
abortion legal.
Not only that, but attend a Rachel's Vineyard retreat sometime and hear
the stories of actual women who have had abortions. They are being
punished now by guilt, regret, and suffering. They need healing.
It is the pro-life movement which begins such programs for post-abortive
women. It is pro-life groups which provide the healing.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:43 pm
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Forum Elder
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Posts: 17,590
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
I'm with you QOHCV (save for the fact that I'm pro-choice). If anti-choicers ...
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Question: are you deliberately trying to get us to disregard what you say??
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Mar 30, '16, 5:45 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: June 30, 2014
Posts: 12,300
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Please forgive me if this interview has already been posted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/us...ml?recp=7&_r=1
Donald J. Trump, the Republican presidential front-runner, said that
if elected, he might halt purchases of oil from Saudi Arabia and other
Arab allies unless they commit ground troops to the fight against the
Islamic State or “substantially reimburse” the United States for
combating the militant group, which threatens their stability.
“If Saudi Arabia was without the cloak of American protection,” Mr.
Trump said during a 100-minute interview on foreign policy, spread over
two phone calls on Friday, “I don’t think it would be around.”
He also said he would be open to allowing Japan and South Korea to build
their own nuclear arsenals rather than depend on the American nuclear
umbrella for their protection against North Korea and China. If the
United States “keeps on its path, its current path of weakness, they’re
going to want to have that anyway, with or without me discussing it,”
Mr. Trump said.
It's a pretty interesting article and interview, in my opinion, although
it's becoming increasingly clear that while Trump's style and approach
to governance would be unusual, he likely wouldn't change longheld U.S.
policy much at all. There's an immensely powerful and unchanging
structure in place which guarantees basic continuity, but within that
closed system he might be capable to do some unexpected things. 
The article continues at the link.
__________________
Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking…
~Augustine
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Mar 30, '16, 5:46 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
As I mentioned previously, punishment of
women was not a part of most abortion laws prior to 1973. Given the fact
that Roe v Wade made abortion legal through all nine months of
pregnancy, and that abortion has now been legal for 43 years, it is the
pro-abortion side which now drags out the specter, never before an
actuality, of extreme punishment for women. That does have the effect of
being an argument for keeping abortion legal.
Not only that, but attend a Rachel's Vineyard retreat sometime and hear
the stories of actual women who have had abortions. They are being
punished now by guilt, regret, and suffering. They need healing.
It is the pro-life movement which begins such programs for post-abortive
women. It is pro-life groups which provide the healing.
|
Ok I understand better now with what you said. But still, it
doesn't have to be extreme punishment. Some form of determent should be
acceptable. Criminals of another nature could also convert and feel
compunction for what they have done, and yet they face their
consequences.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:48 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
Please forgive me if this interview has already been posted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/us...ml?recp=7&_r=1
Donald J. Trump, the Republican presidential front-runner, said that
if elected, he might halt purchases of oil from Saudi Arabia and other
Arab allies unless they commit ground troops to the fight against the
Islamic State or “substantially reimburse” the United States for
combating the militant group, which threatens their stability.
“If Saudi Arabia was without the cloak of American protection,” Mr.
Trump said during a 100-minute interview on foreign policy, spread over
two phone calls on Friday, “I don’t think it would be around.”
He also said he would be open to allowing Japan and South Korea to build
their own nuclear arsenals rather than depend on the American nuclear
umbrella for their protection against North Korea and China. If the
United States “keeps on its path, its current path of weakness, they’re
going to want to have that anyway, with or without me discussing it,”
Mr. Trump said.
It's a pretty interesting article and interview, in my opinion, although
it's becoming increasingly clear that while Trump's style and approach
to governance would be unusual, he likely wouldn't change longheld U.S.
policy much at all. There's an immensely powerful and unchanging
structure in place which guarantees basic continuity, but within that
closed system he might be able to do some unexpected things. The article continues at the link. |
I like what he's saying. He wants nations to be independent and
wants reciprocity of good will if America is to help another country.
Nothing wrong with that.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:51 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 4, 2016
Posts: 1,766
Religion: Episcopalian
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Question: are you deliberately trying to get us to disregard what you say??
|
Just trying to be upfront with a poster who might not know that
about me. Whether or not someone disregards me makes no difference to
me. I suspect many here disregard opinions with which they do not agree.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:55 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: June 30, 2014
Posts: 12,300
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
I like what he's saying. He wants nations
to be independent and wants reciprocity of good will if America is to
help another country. Nothing wrong with that.
|
What do you think would happen if were elected and then actually attempted to stop all U.S. aid to Saudi Arabia and Israel?
Would either of those actions be possible?
How would Israel respond, do you think?
__________________
Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking…
~Augustine
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Mar 30, '16, 5:57 pm
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Regular Member
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Posts: 3,398
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
What do you think would happen if were elected and then actually attempted to stop all U.S. aid to Saudi Arabia and Israel?
|
There will be give and take. There will be consultation and
deliberation. He won't do anything irrational. He's a very pragmatic
man.
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Mar 30, '16, 5:58 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: June 30, 2014
Posts: 12,300
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
There will be give and take. There will
be consultation and deliberation. He won't do anything irrational. He's a
very pragmatic man.
|
I confess, I don't understand your answer.
__________________
Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking…
~Augustine
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Mar 30, '16, 6:01 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 7, 2008
Posts: 17,590
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Alright I'm just gonna say it: the last hundred posts (I just did a
whole lot of catching up) make me think this thread has gone topsy
turvy.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:03 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 7, 2008
Posts: 17,590
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
Just trying to be upfront with a poster who might not know that about me.
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Calling us "anti-choicers" is being upfront? Give me a break (please).
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Mar 30, '16, 6:04 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
I confess, I don't understand your answer.
|
What I'm saying he is now telling us his guiding principles in
foreign policy. What he'll do in concrete policies, whether he will get
rid of foreign aid altogether for certain countries, in those aspects I
believe he won't be rash but rather take the advice of experts; he will
also use negotiation skills--give and take--in order to go where he
wants with foreign countries, but he won't do anything that will
jeopardize our national interests or gain us more enemies.
Mar 30, '16, 6:10 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: February 26, 2007
Posts: 1,361
Religion: Byzantine Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Certain bad acts can be classified as illegal.
You don't necessarily have to criminalize the bad act.
Prior to Roe, in almost all cases, very few women seeking an abortion were prosecuted in the U.S.
There are only two cases in the history of U.S. jurisprudence of states prosecuting women who has abortions.
We're not necessarily going to throw women into prison, although that could be done.
Perhaps some other punishment, e.g., a fine of money; community service; etc., may be in order.
Perhaps no punishment.
Justice is tempered with Mercy,
It is too bad Mr. Trump is stating that he would fulfill the Liberal's
"Parade of Horribles" argument for legalizing abortion and fall for
their trick question.
Quote:
Why did the states target abortionists and treat women as a victim of the abortionist?
It was based on three policy judgments: the point of abortion law is
effective enforcement against abortionists, the woman is the second
victim of the abortionist, and prosecuting women is counterproductive to
the goal of effective enforcement of the law against abortionists.
|
http://www.aul.org/2010/04/why-the-states-did-not-prosecute-women-for-abortion-before-roe-v-wade/
__________________
"It's a free country; you can say whatever you want."
--Old American Saying
(U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols
freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an
American Flag shield.)
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Mar 30, '16, 6:10 pm
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: June 30, 2014
Posts: 12,300
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
What I'm saying he is now telling us his
guiding principles in foreign policy. What he'll do in concrete
policies, whether he will get rid of foreign aid altogether for certain
countries, in those aspects I believe he won't be rash but rather take
the advice of experts; he will also use negotiation skills--give and
take--in order to go where he wants with foreign countries, but he won't
do anything that will jeopardize our national interests or gain us more
enemies.
|
Cutting off all aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, etcetera, all over the globe, wouldn't gain us enemies?
In my opinion, Trump doesn't have even the vaguest, most tenuous grasp of what he's talking about.
He actually says in the interview that he gets all his information from newspapers!
__________________
Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking…
~Augustine
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Mar 30, '16, 6:11 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: November 17, 2013
Posts: 3,822
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
As I mentioned previously, punishment of
women was not a part of most abortion laws prior to 1973. Given the fact
that Roe v Wade made abortion legal through all nine months of
pregnancy, and that abortion has now been legal for 43 years, it is the
pro-abortion side which now drags out the specter, never before an
actuality, of extreme punishment for women. That does have the effect of
being an argument for keeping abortion legal.
Not only that, but attend a Rachel's Vineyard retreat sometime and hear
the stories of actual women who have had abortions. They are being
punished now by guilt, regret, and suffering. They need healing.
It is the pro-life movement which begins such programs for post-abortive
women. It is pro-life groups which provide the healing.
|
I'm sure you can find many murderers in prison that feel guilt and
regret. That doesn't excuse their crime. It's either murder or it's
not. I don't understand this inbetween that somehow the person who seeks
out someone to get an abortion is innocent of any crime, but the person
that does the abortion is a criminal. That's ridiculous.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:13 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
Cutting off all aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, etcetera all over the globe, wouldn't gain us enemies?
In my opinion, Trump doesn't have even the vaguest, most tenuous grasp of what he's talking about.
|
What I'm saying is he won't do that! He wants nations to pull more
weight for themselves, which doesn't mean he's just gonna cut them off
on day 1. That's what I mean by being pragmatic. There will be steps
taken in a gradual process of negotiation so that nations can adjust and
still work together but in a different dynamic than before.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:16 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 4, 2016
Posts: 1,766
Religion: Episcopalian
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Calling us "anti-choicers" is being upfront? Give me a break (please).
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Actually, the first thing I told that poster was that I am pro-choice. That's pretty upfront.
I sincerely don't know what to call people who do not agree with choice
concerning this subject. I can't call y'all pro-life and look myself in
the mirror. Every person I have ever met on both sides of this issue is
pro-life.
Why does it bother you so that I call it pro-choice and anti-choice?
That's how I see the issue. Just like those on the opposite side call it
pro-abortion and pro-life because that's how they see the issue. None
of that bothers me. It's silly semantics that distracts us, imho.
It's a big wide world with room for all sorts of beliefs. Charity is our friend.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:18 pm
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Regular Member
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
Cutting off all aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, etcetera, all over the globe, wouldn't gain us enemies?
In my opinion, Trump doesn't have even the vaguest, most tenuous grasp of what he's talking about.
He actually says in the interview that he gets all his information from newspapers!
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This.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:21 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
Cutting off all aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, etcetera, all over the globe, wouldn't gain us enemies?
In my opinion, Trump doesn't have even the vaguest, most tenuous grasp of what he's talking about.
He actually says in the interview that he gets all his information from newspapers!
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I want to be like trump. If he has no idea of what he's talking
about and yet he's successful at pretty much whatever he does, I want to
be that! What luck he must have.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:21 pm
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Posts: 1,352
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Given the fact that he reversed himself, I don't know if he revealed his true feelings or not.
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It's certainly more likely that he revealed his true feelings when
spontaneously answering a question, as opposed to a carefully-worded
press release response to a growing firestorm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
He did seem to give the appearance that he had never considered the matter until being hit with an unexpected question.
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I suspect there a lot of topics that he hasn't considered, so I'll
grant you that point. However, that doesn't mean that he wasn't
speaking his true feelings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Had he been even somewhat familiar with
mainstream pro-life organizations, he should have known that advocating
punishment for women has always been a pro-abortion ploy, not a pro-life
position.
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Ploys are not needed. All one has to do is ask an anti-abortion
candidate what their true feelings are - i.e. Todd Akin, Richard
Mourdoch, etc.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:24 pm
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Prayer Warrior
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Re: Trump Thread
National Right to Life: Punish Abortionists, Not Women
Quote:
WASHINGTON – The National Right to Life Committee, the federation of 50
state affiliates and more than 3,000 local chapters today restated its
position that, should abortion once again become illegal in the United
States, penalties should be imposed against the abortionist himself, not
the woman who has the abortion.
The following statement may be attributed to National Right to Life President Carol Tobias:
The National Right to Life Committee unequivocally
opposes the killing of innocent unborn children and works unceasingly to
have them protected in law. Unborn children and their mothers are
victims in an abortion. In adopting statutes prohibiting the performance
of abortions, National Right to Life has long opposed the imposition of
penalties on the woman on whom an abortion is attempted or performed.
Rather, penalties should be imposed against any abortionist who would
take the life of an unborn child in defiance of statutes prohibiting
abortions. National Right to Life-backed state and federal legislation,
such as the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act and the
Dismemberment Abortion Ban, is targeted at stopping abortionists.
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http://www.nrlc.org/communications/r...elease033016b/
__________________
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Mar 30, '16, 6:48 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan2
It's certainly more likely that he
revealed his true feelings when spontaneously answering a question, as
opposed to a carefully-worded press release response to a growing
firestorm.
I suspect there a lot of topics that he hasn't considered, so I'll grant
you that point. However, that doesn't mean that he wasn't speaking his
true feelings.
Ploys are not needed. All one has to do is ask an anti-abortion
candidate what their true feelings are - i.e. Todd Akin, Richard
Mourdoch, etc.
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Since this is all hypothetical, what about this scenario:
Abortion is banned. A woman contracts an illegal abortion. Doctor goes
to jail. Woman is not punished. She gets pregnant again and contracts
another illegal abortion. Another doctor goes to jail. She is still
scotch free.
Does that seem right?
What am I missing?
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Mar 30, '16, 6:58 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: March 21, 2012
Posts: 5,678
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
In my opinion, Trump doesn't have even the vaguest, most tenuous grasp of what he's talking about.
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Nope. He simply talks without any thought about what he's saying. Doesn't matter what the issue is.
Did anyone see John Oliver's commentary on Trump from about a week ago? Brilliantly funny and spot on.
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Mar 30, '16, 6:59 pm
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Join Date: January 25, 2016
Posts: 3,398
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by on_the_hill
Nope. He simply talks without any thought about what he's saying. Doesn't matter what the issue is.
Did anyone see John Oliver's commentary on Trump from about a week ago? Brilliantly funny and spot on.
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Or maybe his thinking is just too different from yours.
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Mar 30, '16, 7:12 pm
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New Member
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Posts: 23
Religion: Considering Catholicism
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
Since this is all hypothetical, what about this scenario:
Abortion is banned. A woman contracts an illegal abortion. Doctor goes
to jail. Woman is not punished. She gets pregnant again and contracts
another illegal abortion. Another doctor goes to jail. She is still
scotch free.
Does that seem right?
What am I missing?
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Your instincts are right. The same people on condemning Trump for
saying this are the same people that complain that prostitutes are
always jailed but not necessarily always the Johns, that's a double
standard the way I see it. They are also the same people that have been
telling me he is a right wing extremist. Then there are the so called
"conservatives" who also condemned him today, Tony Perkins from the
Family Research Council" comes to mind, all the while for the past few
months have been saying that he is not a true conservative. He is
obviously not a perfect man, but if the media, liberals, and
conservative establishment hate him then he must be doing something.
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Mar 30, '16, 7:48 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
At 5:30 today I felt like CBS News was telling me "Now Trump's done it, and there's no way you can support him after this".
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Mar 30, '16, 7:50 pm
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Regular Member
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Posts: 1,403
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Today I learned that the modern "pro-life" movement are modern feminists
who think that women can do no wrong. I thought when they said
"abortion is murder" they meant it, but apparently it was this special
kind of murder that deserves no punishment for the person who contracted
the murder. I'm honestly still taking this is in, it was very
disturbing.
Trump is really throwing a wrench the system. You go, man!
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Mar 30, '16, 7:50 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: March 7, 2012
Posts: 4,898
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
Since this is all hypothetical, what about this scenario:
Abortion is banned. A woman contracts an illegal abortion. Doctor goes
to jail. Woman is not punished. She gets pregnant again and contracts
another illegal abortion. Another doctor goes to jail. She is still
scotch free.
Does that seem right?
What am I missing?
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Shouldn't each case be judged on its own merit? Each sentence also?
__________________
“Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love,
yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you.
I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”.
- Pope Francis
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Mar 30, '16, 7:59 pm
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
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Yes, yes. Woman are clearly not able to make their own considered decisions. Don't punish those poor, unthinking women!
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Mar 30, '16, 8:01 pm
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Regular Member
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mayo
Shouldn't each case be judged on its own merit? Each sentence also?
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Surely our courts have room for this.
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Mar 30, '16, 8:11 pm
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Senior Member
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Re: Trump Thread
I don't think Donald Trump is looking bad tonight, but it's rather those
Pro-Life organizations who think they speak for everyone in the
Pro-Life community that are looking hypocritical.
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Mar 30, '16, 8:11 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: January 21, 2013
Posts: 11,614
Religion: other
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled Child
What do you think would happen if were elected and then actually attempted to stop all U.S. aid to Saudi Arabia and Israel?
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Our taxes would go down and the government would have more money
to give to students who have to pay huge tuition costs, student fees,
room and board fees, to get a college degree. Why not use the money
saved to help poor struggling families trying to make ends meet with
four or five children instead of giving it to the Saudi Arabian princes
and their several wives. After all, Saudi Arabia does not permit
conversion to Christianity and from the last I heard, you can have your
head chopped off if you decide that Islam is not right for you. As for
Israel, I am against a situation where Jews spit on Catholic priests and
Eastern Orthodox Priests. IMHO, it is quite rude for them to go around
spitting on our priests.
http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in...-them-1.137099
http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Mouths-filled-with-hatred
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/u...daily-1.393669
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Mar 30, '16, 8:21 pm
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Forum Elder
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Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
I think at this point it's practically a rule of politics that whenever
something Trump says loses him some voters, the very same statement
gains him some other voters. Will that be true in this latest incident
as well? I'm having trouble imagining anyone who wasn't previously
supporting Trump who would start supporting him after his statement
about punishing women who have had abortions.
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Mar 30, '16, 8:48 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: October 7, 2013
Posts: 8,022
Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
Actually, the first thing I told that poster was that I am pro-choice. That's pretty upfront.
I sincerely don't know what to call people who do not agree with choice
concerning this subject. I can't call y'all pro-life and look myself in
the mirror. Every person I have ever met on both sides of this issue is
pro-life.
Why does it bother you so that I call it pro-choice and anti-choice?
That's how I see the issue. Just like those on the opposite side call it
pro-abortion and pro-life because that's how they see the issue. None
of that bothers me. It's silly semantics that distracts us, imho.
It's a big wide world with room for all sorts of beliefs. Charity is our friend.
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__________________
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it
is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong."
(Pope Francis)
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Mar 30, '16, 8:51 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: January 21, 2013
Posts: 11,614
Religion: other
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
It's a big wide world with room for all sorts of beliefs. Charity is our friend.
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How about having a little bit of charity for the baby about to be born?
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Mar 30, '16, 8:59 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 7, 2008
Posts: 17,590
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomdstone
How about having a little bit of charity for the baby about to be born?
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Who knows, maybe it's our fault, since we didn't return the compliment by calling LS "anti-life".
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Mar 30, '16, 9:09 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: October 7, 2013
Posts: 8,022
Religion: Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Who knows, maybe it's our fault, since we didn't return the compliment by calling LS "anti-life".
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No it's not your fault. It just wouldn't make any sense since
Little Sheep has already said he or she has never met anyone on either
side who is not pro life.
__________________
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it
is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong."
(Pope Francis)
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Mar 30, '16, 11:18 pm
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mayo
Shouldn't each case be judged on its own merit? Each sentence also?
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Yes, I've said before if abortion were illegal, a
fourteen-tear-old girl who is forced by her parents to have an abortion
shouldn't receive the same punishment as a thirty-year-old woman who
simply would find a child an inconvenience.
I would imagine we were all inconveniences to those who raised us at some point.
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Mar 30, '16, 11:24 pm
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus L
I don't think Donald Trump is looking bad
tonight, but it's rather those Pro-Life organizations who think they
speak for everyone in the Pro-Life community that are looking
hypocritical.
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I actually feel a little sorry for Trump tonight, and I have to
ask myself why I feel bad for a billionaire who can have any material
thing he wants. He's attempting to do "damage control" for his statement
on abortion, and really, he shouldn't have to do damage control for
that statement.
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Mar 30, '16, 11:26 pm
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomdstone
How about having a little bit of charity for the baby about to be born?
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You need to make that statement to the pregnant women who are contemplating abortion.
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Mar 31, '16, 4:32 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 7, 2008
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Re: Trump Thread
My take: Trump's statement obviously needed to be responded to, e.g.
Quote:
Students for Life
@Students4LifeHQ
Our statement on Trump and abortion: “No one in the pro-life movement wants to punish women who have abortions.
...
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but I think the right-wing should have stuck with disavowing
Trump's statement -- whereas in fact some of them used it as an
opportunity to get out their own message of wanting to punish
abortionists. For example, this other tweet I found:
Quote:
Right to Life
@nrlc
National Right to Life: Punish Abortionists, Not Women
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I'm not looking to sow even more division between moderate Republicans and the right-wing, but I decided I couldn't stay silent.
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Mar 31, '16, 6:30 am
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Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
You need to make that statement to the pregnant women who are contemplating abortion.
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I have-many times.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:24 am
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Regular Member
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Join Date: July 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Religion: Christian
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Re: Trump Thread
In addition to the women, should whoever provides the funds/support for
abortion be punished as well for eg. husband, boyfriend, parents who
encourage someone to have an abortion?
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Mar 31, '16, 7:29 am
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestLove
In addition to the women, should whoever
provides the funds/support for abortion be punished as well for eg.
husband, boyfriend, parents who encourage someone to have an abortion?
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According to Catholic moral teaching, they are as guilty as the
woman who makes the decision. On the other hand, if someone is truly
coerced, like a young girl might be, she incurs very little culpability.
But abortion isn't going anywhere soon, so I'm not going to engage in a
long "what if" discussion.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:35 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by chero23
Just watched the Cruz said that he won't support trump if he's the nominee if. I hope he keeps his word.
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I never accepted Cruz's on his word.
He's been the dirtiest candidate of the GOP.
Remember in Iowa, his sending out robo calls to voters telling them that Carlson was dropping out ?
Remember his sending out what looked like government forms, showing the
neighbors of people who were supporting Cruz, but it was a lie ?
Trumps is a ego maniac, but Cruz is the epitome of a con artist
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
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Mar 31, '16, 7:36 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Interesting read for those who are following the Trump campaign and might also be into literature, film and psychology.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/03/30/...hting-america/
__________________
Jesus, protect and save the unborn.
The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we
saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the
Father, full of grace and truth.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:36 am
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
I never accepted Cruz's on his word.
He's been the dirtiest candidate of the GOP.
Remember in Iowa, his sending out robo calls to voters telling them that Carlson was dropping out ?
Remember his sending out what looked like government forms, showing the
neighbors of people who were supporting Cruz, but it was a lie ?
Trumps is a ego maniac, but Cruz is the epitome of a con artist
Jim
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I hate to admit it, but I had forgotten that. Thank you for reminding us.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:38 am
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Forum Elder
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mayo
Shouldn't each case be judged on its own merit? Each sentence also?
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It's not how laws are written.
A law which is a felony, has to have a penalty provision which is equal to all who violate it.
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
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Mar 31, '16, 7:42 am
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Senior Member
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Posts: 7,038
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
I actually feel a little sorry for Trump
tonight, and I have to ask myself why I feel bad for a billionaire who
can have any material thing he wants. He's attempting to do "damage
control" for his statement on abortion, and really, he shouldn't have to
do damage control for that statement.
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Yes, he should. According to Trump, women who procure abortions
should be punished but the fathers of their babies shouldn't be, even if
they are willing to have their babies aborted. If the fathers are
complicit in murder and the women are to be punished, the fathers should
be, too.
Or perhaps he should apologize for thinking up his stance on the issue on the spot. That's pretty insulting, as well.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:43 am
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Forum Elder
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Re: Trump Thread
Trumps recent statements on abortion only show how shallow he is in thinking out issues which don't involve making money.
He's clever at making money, but he lacks wisdom on many other issues.
He is not presidential, but unfortunately. the alternatives to him aren't much better.
I'll never vote for Hillary, but I'll also never vote for Cruz.
What a sad state our election is in this time.
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
Last edited by JimR-OCDS; Mar 31, '16 at 7:53 am.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:44 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 7, 2008
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Re: Trump Thread
"It was a terrible answer," Huckabee said. " Nobody's going to defend what he said."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-g...e-react-221418
Well, never say nobody.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:47 am
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Prayer Warrior
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Re: Trump Thread
This was actually posted nearly six years ago but given Trump's comments
regarding punishing women for abortion, which he now gone back on, it's
worth reading:
Why the States Did Not Prosecute Women for Abortion Before Roe v. Wade
http://www.aul.org/2010/04/why-the-s...re-roe-v-wade/
__________________
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Mar 31, '16, 7:48 am
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Forum Elder
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
Trumps resent statements on abortion only show how shallow he is in thinking out issues which don't involve making money.
He's clever at making money, but he lacks wisdom on many other issues.
He is not presidential, but unfortunately. the alternatives to him aren't much better.
I'll never vote for Hillary, but I'll also never vote for Cruz.
What a sad state our election is in this time.
Jim
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Well, Kasich is still technically in it, although personally I'm
inclined to just accept Cruz's shortcomings and hope that next time
around we get someone more moderate like Rubio.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:51 am
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Well,
Kasich is still technically in it, although personally I'm inclined to just accept
Cruz's shortopcomings and hope that next time around we get someone more moderate like
Rubio.
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I liked Kasich, and he isn't so extreme, but the more he talks,
the more I dislike and distrust him. Not that I trust Cruz, either. I
don't, especially in light of what JimR, above me, posted about Cruz's
activities in Iowa.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:52 am
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Forum Elder
Prayer Warrior
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Well,
Kasich is still technically in it, although personally I'm inclined to just accept
Cruz's shortopcomings and hope that next time around we get someone more moderate like
Rubio.
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Perhaps Rubio will be on a Cruz ticket. I doubt that though, but
if the Cruz is the nominee, I suspect he would be at least considered. I
think Carly Fiorina would probably be a strong contender for Cruz's VP.
__________________
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Mar 31, '16, 7:54 am
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
Perhaps Rubio will be on a Cruz ticket. I
doubt that though, but if the Cruz is the nominee, I suspect he would
be at least considered. I think Carly Fiorina would probably be a strong
contender for Cruz's VP.
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Carly Fiorina would sink Cruz'a ship just like Sarah Palin sunk McCain's.
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Mar 31, '16, 7:56 am
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Join Date: June 9, 2015
Posts: 6,603
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
Yes, he should. According to Trump, women
who procure abortions should be punished but the fathers of their
babies shouldn't be, even if they are willing to have their babies
aborted. If the fathers are complicit in murder and the women are to be
punished, the fathers should be, too.
Or perhaps he should apologize for thinking up his stance on the issue on the spot. That's pretty insulting, as well.
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I agree with you about the fathers, etc., but if Trump is going to
be the candidate, he's going to have to answer a lot of questions
without time to formulate a reasoned and balanced answer, so I guess
he'd better get used to thinking on the spot. If he has to go up against
Hillary on foreign relations, he's going to find himself in a pickle,
to put it mildly.
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Mar 31, '16, 8:00 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
I agree with you about the fathers, etc.,
but if Trump is going to be the candidate, he's going to have to answer
a lot of questions without time to formulate a reasoned and balanced
answer, so I guess he'd better get used to thinking on the spot. If he
has to go up against Hillary on foreign relations, he's going to find
himself in a pickle, to put it mildly.
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Or he could think about major social and political issues before
sitting down to speak with journalists. That he hasn't formulated a
coherent position on abortion is...scary. Although perhaps no more scary
than anything else he's said...
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Mar 31, '16, 8:00 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
I agree with you about the fathers, etc.,
but if Trump is going to be the candidate, he's going to have to answer
a lot of questions without time to formulate a reasoned and balanced
answer, so I guess he'd better get used to thinking on the spot. If he
has to go up against Hillary on foreign relations, he's going to find
himself in a pickle, to put it mildly.
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Or he can learn to say, I'm not going to answer a hypothetical
question. There are many ways to evade an answer which politicians do so
well but for trump he has to learn.
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Mar 31, '16, 8:03 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
Or he can learn to say, I'm not going to
answer a hypothetical question. There are many ways to evade an answer
which politicians do so well but for trump he has to learn.
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So no politician should have to answer the simple question asked
of Trump by Matthews -- how will making abortion illegal actually
function?
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Mar 31, '16, 8:03 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
Or he could think about major social and
political issues before sitting down to speak with journalists. That he
hasn't formulated a coherent position on abortion is...scary. Although
perhaps no more scary than anything else he's said...
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LOL You have a wonderful way with words!
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Mar 31, '16, 8:09 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
Perhaps Rubio will be on a Cruz ticket. I
doubt that though, but if the Cruz is the nominee, I suspect he would
be at least considered.
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That would be a good idea IMO, but I recently heard Rubio say he isn't interested in being anyone's VP.
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Mar 31, '16, 8:14 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia
This was actually posted nearly six years
ago but given Trump's comments regarding punishing women for abortion,
which he now gone back on, it's worth reading:
Why the States Did Not Prosecute Women for Abortion Before Roe v. Wade
http://www.aul.org/2010/04/why-the-s...re-roe-v-wade/ |
Thank you for posting that.
"There is no documented case since 1922 in which a woman was even charged in an abortion in the United States."
If that doesn't get people's attention, I don't know what will.
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Mar 31, '16, 8:19 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbones
So, you don't think the Republicans are truly pro-life?
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It is clear they are more anti-abortion. Pro-life is a broad term,
like pro-choice. I do not see Donald Trump as very pro-life, and only
mildly opposed to abortion, if at all.
__________________
"Then the
King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in." - Jesus
 Nooo!! I didn't mean it!
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Mar 31, '16, 8:29 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sheep
I'm with you QOHCV (save for the fact that I'm pro-choice). If anti-choicers ...
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That term is as dumb as pro-choice. Choice of what? If choice
does not end where the rights of another begins, then the right to rape
women makes as much sense as the right to terminate the life of an
unborn child. Are you also pro-choice for rape, or child abuse? Is it
really choice you favor, or the one right to choose an abortion.
Getting back to Trump, and tying this thought to him, it is clear that
he has not solid opinion on this topic. It may well be, and
understandable from his point of view, that he has not really thought
much beyond what position he wants to take. The fault is not totally
his. We spend so much time posturing back and forth on this topic that
any dialogue is lost. Like race in the past, this is the single most
divisive issue in America. I am convinced honest dialogue would result
in most people seeing the illogical and contradictory position that is
the right to abortion. It would eliminate, or restricted, or we would
pursue the other logical alternative of infanticed, force euthanasia of
the elderly, disabled and mentally infirm, etc.
__________________
"Then the
King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in." - Jesus
Nooo!! I didn't mean it!
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Mar 31, '16, 8:35 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
That would be a good idea IMO, but I recently heard Rubio say he isn't interested in being anyone's VP.
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Yup. Rubio assured the country that in January he will be a
private citizen. Is not running for governor either. And Kasich has also
said he isn't going to be VP. That he is going to remain governor of
OH. In fact he has gone so far as to say he would make the worst VP.
__________________
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it
is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong."
(Pope Francis)
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Mar 31, '16, 9:11 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy Noe
Yup. Rubio assured the country that in
January he will be a private citizen. Is not running for governor
either. And Kasich has also said he isn't going to be VP. That he is
going to remain governor of OH. In fact he has gone so far as to say he
would make the worst VP.
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I don't think that is necessarily true - Rubio's 'retirement.'
Behind the scenes, he is protecting his delegates for a first vote
should it come to that at the convention. To me, it looks like he wisely
decided to take a step back from all of the chaos and shrapnel that is
the GOP 2016 election campaign. If the dust settles with Cruz as nominee
(and Cruz has a reasonable means to unify the party - another big
'if'), I expect to see Rubio in play as VP. Also Kasich in the cabinet -
my pick is Secretary of State.
Rubio just needs to decide if that is the best way to serve, or if he
should bide his time until 2020. In a year or two, I think his pulling
out gracefully followed by the Trump debacle could have him in a very
good spot to re-enter GOP politics; they simply don't have many other
young talented leaders. But as for 2016, I would expect him to continue
to lay low if Cruz is solidly doomed by party fracturing after receiving
the nomination or also if Donald takes the nomination (but that is
increasingly unlikely - the GOP would essentially be forced to run a 3rd
party candidate to protect the brand).
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:17 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Having watched the video, I don't think Trump really affirmed the
"punish the woman who contracted the murder" position, Matthews wanted
that answer and he "got" it. Then Trump posts his real opinion online
and he "flip flopped".
Another scandal that I'm sure has finally stumped Trump's campaign. Sure
we've been saying that for 9 months, but this time will surely be it.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:20 am
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Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estevao
Having watched the video, I don't think
Trump really affirmed the "punish the woman who contracted the murder"
position, Matthews wanted that answer and he "got" it. Then Trump posts
his real opinion online and he "flip flopped".
Another scandal that I'm sure has finally stumped Trump's campaign. Sure
we've been saying that for 9 months, but this time will surely be it.
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I hope you are right but I doubt it.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:21 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
Or he could think about major social and
political issues before sitting down to speak with journalists. That he
hasn't formulated a coherent position on abortion is...scary. Although
perhaps no more scary than anything else he's said...
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Right. A candidate without coherent positions. And a fan base.
Please let's just not call it conservatism or the GOP. I saw the clip
last night of Trump talking to Mathews - some 'conservative Republicans'
believe that women should be punished for abortions. Incredible. A DNC
plant would not have gone there - for fear of exposure, derailment of
the mission.
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:25 am
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Banned
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
I liked Kasich, and he isn't so extreme, but the more he talks, the more I dislike and distrust him.
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Yes, I agree.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:27 am
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Senior Member
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
I don't think that is necessarily true -
Rubio's 'retirement.' Behind the scenes, he is protecting his delegates
for a first vote should it come to that at the convention. To me, it
looks like he wisely decided to take a step back from all of the chaos
and shrapnel that is the GOP 2016 election campaign. If the dust settles
with Cruz as nominee (and Cruz has a reasonable means to unify the
party - another big 'if'), I expect to see Rubio in play as VP. Also
Kasich in the cabinet - my pick is Secretary of State.
Rubio just needs to decide if that is the best way to serve, or if he
should bide his time until 2020. In a year or two, I think his pulling
out gracefully followed by the Trump debacle could have him in a very
good spot to re-enter GOP politics; they simply don't have many other
young talented leaders. But as for 2016, I would expect him to continue
to lay low if Cruz is solidly doomed by party fracturing after receiving
the nomination or also if Donald takes the nomination (but that is
increasingly unlikely - the GOP would essentially be forced to run a 3rd
party candidate to protect the brand).
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All I have is Rubio in his own words to go by.
__________________
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage... it
is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
"The view of the church’s teaching as a monolith to defend without nuance or different understandings is wrong."
(Pope Francis)
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Mar 31, '16, 9:33 am
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Senior Member
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy Noe
All I have is Rubio in his own words to go by.
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Fair enough - just don't try that with Trump....
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:43 am
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Senior Member
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estevao
Having watched the video, I don't think
Trump really affirmed the "punish the woman who contracted the murder"
position, Matthews wanted that answer and he "got" it. Then Trump posts
his real opinion online and he "flip flopped".
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I, too, saw the video and I don't know how you can assume that
Trump didn't affirm punishment for women who procure abortions. There
wasn't any spin put on his comment -- when asked if he agreed with this,
he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a question and after 5 minutes of
deflection, Trump finally answered it.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:49 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbones
If Mr. Trump wins the presidency, then I
would assume that the Republicans will hold both houses of Congress.
They should be able to pass a law punishing women for abortions if they
are truly a pro-life party.
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They'd need a supermajority in the senate, else the Dems could just filabuster.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:54 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
I, too, saw the video and I don't know
how you can assume that Trump didn't affirm punishment for women who
procure abortions. There wasn't any spin put on his comment -- when
asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a
question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.
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Is there an official catholic church position on this specific
issue? Whether women can or should be chastised/punished for seeking
illegal abortion?
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Mar 31, '16, 9:56 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob
I hope you are right but I doubt it.
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I doubt it, too.
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Mar 31, '16, 9:58 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
I, too, saw the video and I don't know
how you can assume that Trump didn't affirm punishment for women who
procure abortions. There wasn't any spin put on his comment -- when
asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a
question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.
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He did affirm punishment for women who procure abortions in the Town Hall meeting, but he later said he didn't mean it.
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Mar 31, '16, 10:00 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
I, too, saw the video and I don't know
how you can assume that Trump didn't affirm punishment for women who
procure abortions. There wasn't any spin put on his comment -- when
asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a
question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.
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This reminds me of deconstructionism, dada. It doesn't matter what
Trump says, right? The fact that he is spluttering and incoherent is
the least of our worries. To the larger point: how can we possibly know
what he would do in terms of policy in the White House if he doesn't?
How can one, within reason, actually know whether or not he/she agrees
with Trump? It is impossible. The President is the most powerful man in
the world.
Carson is now out there saying that Trump was not forewarned of
Matthews' abortion question - somehow it was not 'fair.' Trump was not
allowed to prepare in advance.
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 31, '16, 10:02 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Bernans
Carly Fiorina would sink Cruz'a ship just like Sarah Palin sunk McCain's.
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But Cruz's ship will sink even without Fiorina, if he's nominated as the GOP candidate.
Jim
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Mar 31, '16, 10:05 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
This reminds me of deconstructionism,
dada. It doesn't matter what Trump says, right? The fact that he is
spluttering and incoherent is the least of our worries. To the larger
point: how can we possibly know what he would do in terms of policy in
the White House if he doesn't? How can one, within reason, actually know
whether or not he/she agrees with Trump? It is impossible. The
President is the most powerful man in the world.
Carson is now out there saying that Trump was not forewarned of
Matthews' abortion question - somehow it was not 'fair.' Trump was not
allowed to prepare in advance.
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It was clearly a set up but that's to be expected with the media.
It also doesn't matter what trump says; he's bound to offend people no
matter what he says, even if he doesn't answer the question.
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Mar 31, '16, 10:06 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
It was clearly a set up but that's to be
expected with the media. It also doesn't matter what trump says; he's
bound to offend people no matter what he says, even if he doesn't answer
the question.
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Or know the answer.
__________________
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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Mar 31, '16, 10:06 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracepoole
Or he could think about major social and
political issues before sitting down to speak with journalists. That he
hasn't formulated a coherent position on abortion is...scary. Although
perhaps no more scary than anything else he's said...
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I found this to be common among business people.
In all my years working with executives in high-tech, none thought much
about current events which didn't effect their business objectives.
Abortion was never part of conversations, even at non-formal dinners and such.
Same was true of wars, other than we have to win and again, business came first.
I think if losing was good for their business, they'd be advocates for the US losing a war.
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
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Mar 31, '16, 10:09 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J
Thank you for posting that.
"There is no documented case since 1922 in which a woman was even charged in an abortion in the United States."
If that doesn't get people's attention, I don't know what will. |
But the treatment of women in 1922 and today is far different.
Today, women are treated as equals to men and fully responsible for their reporductive decisions.
In 1922, a man could rape his wife and she had no say about it.
The same was true of men however. A man who didn't support his wife and children was sent to prison.
Jim
__________________
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Mar 31, '16, 10:11 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowChrist34
Or know the answer.
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Who knows the answer to the question? Who honestly thinks this is a settled issue on which no contention can be had?
Maybe the pro-lifers you hang out with know beyond a shadow of doubt women should never be punished but I'm not so sure.
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Mar 31, '16, 10:12 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofheartscv
Is there an official catholic church
position on this specific issue? Whether women can or should be
chastised/punished for seeking illegal abortion?
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When Chris Matthews asked Bishop Tobin of Rhode Island the exact
same question, the Bishop tried to dance around the question and then
finally answered that he didn't have the expertise in writing law to
know what penalty should be included.
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
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Mar 31, '16, 10:14 am
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Re: Trump Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
When Chris Matthews asked Bishop Tobin of
Rhode Island the exact same question, the Bishop tried to dance around
the question and then finally answered that he didn't have the expertise
in writing law to know what penalty should be included.
Jim
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That makes sense. This is such a complex issue where discussions can and probably should be had.
To try to judge trump for not having a definitive answer on the spot is simply not fair.
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