Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions

May 20, '16, 1:56 pm

_Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic

Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Oklahoma lawmakers approved a sweeping and unprecedented measure on Thursday that would make performing an abortion a felony punishable by prison time -- part of an overt strategy to challenge the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling. The bill, which passed the Oklahoma Senate 32-12 without debate, now awaits either the governor’s signature or veto. Abortion-rights supporters say the measure is clearly unconstitutional, but the bill's author has said he hopes it will be a first step toward overturning the 1973 Roe ruling that legalized abortion. “Since I believe life begins at conception, it should be protected, and I believe it's a core function of state government to defend that life from the beginning of conception,” Republican Sen. Nathan Dahm, the bill’s author, said. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...s-outrage.html __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org

#2   May 20, '16, 2:50 pm

lmachine Regular Member   Join Date: March 8, 2016 Posts: 1,944 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by _Abyssinia http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...s-outrage.html I'm sure Oklahoma taxpayers will be thrilled to have their tax dollars spent defending this obviously unconstitutional bill if the governor signs it.

#3   May 20, '16, 4:58 pm

estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions The Governor vetoed it today

#4   May 20, '16, 5:47 pm

Peebo Regular Member   Join Date: March 27, 2013 Posts: 1,383 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions While I believe abortion is evil and a sin against God..I wonder how many of these politicians who say they are pro life practice and or support the use of contraceptives in their own families..that is also evil and a sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church..maybe as Catholics we should be asking these pro life politicians that question as well.

#5   May 20, '16, 6:05 pm

pnewton Forum Elder   Join Date: June 1, 2004 Posts: 34,028 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine I'm sure Oklahoma taxpayers will be thrilled to have their tax dollars spent defending this obviously unconstitutional bill if the governor signs it. As a taxpayer, I would be more than willing to pay to challenge the constitutionality of such a bill every time the SC changes. __________________ "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in." - Jesus Nooo!! I didn't mean it!

#6   May 20, '16, 8:03 pm

Crown of Stars Regular Member   Join Date: November 16, 2014 Posts: 1,628 Religion: Catholic, Indian, female

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions ”We must not be surprised when we hear of murders, killings, of wars, or of hatred...If a mother can kill her own child, what is left but for us to kill each other?” Mother Teresa I just love Mother Teresa. Thankyou, to the original poster of this thread, for having her quote in your signature. She was a wonderful woman, a real woman, who truly cared from deep inside of her soul about all children, not just those who were already "here." And as far as I'm concerned, murdering little girls and boys in the womb is unconstitutional. __________________ When God saw it was not good for Man to be alone, He created Woman.

#7   May 20, '16, 8:22 pm

Crown of Stars Regular Member   Join Date: November 16, 2014 Posts: 1,628 Religion: Catholic, Indian, female

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Virgin Mary has said that the evil of the day would never have happened if more said a daily rosary. I think, at this point, we're beyond trying to get "constitutional" help for this grave injustice. They can try to "silence" and mock and shame all they want. They can do nothing about the power of the beads we hold in our hands and pray on in secret. It is already known that in the end, all of this evil will be prevailed against. We already know that. It is a small comfort. They are ignorant. What they say means nothing. __________________ When God saw it was not good for Man to be alone, He created Woman.

#8   May 21, '16, 10:03 am

seekerz Forum Master   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 13,350 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob The Governor vetoed it today Interesting, the reason for the veto. Basically, the lack of definition for conditions which would satisfy the medical exceptions. This is, to me, the weakest point in the argument for an overarching legal solution to abortion. There have to be exceptions because even in a Catholic theocracy there would arise situations where it would be moral to deliver certain treatments which may incidentally (though not intentionally) end the life of the fetus. So the question is: how would those exceptions be defined and enforced? Terminology, definitions and knowledge are not in sync (and given our present environment, probably not sync-able) between lay people and the medical profession and precise terminology/definitions/facts are necessary elements of any law. IMO, this is one clock that cannot be reversed by following a mirror image of the legalization pathway. What can be done, practically speaking, is a piecemeal approach beginning with easily defined aspects of abortion such as legality of abortion-on-demand, requirement for ethics board deliberations for non-emergency treatments etc. Personally, I suspect that politicians have already realized the impractical nature of the blanket legal approach, but as long as promising that will get them votes... __________________ Cease, the heart of Jesus is within me. Sacred Heart of Jesus, thy kingdom come.

#9   May 21, '16, 4:49 pm

Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: "You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said. "The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday – but never jam to-day." "It must come sometimes to 'jam to-day'," Alice objected. "No, it can't," said the Queen. "It's jam every other day: to-day isn't any other day, you know." From: Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (1871) -- Lewis Carroll. Unfortunately, a Republican can't can't can't. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)

#10   May 21, '16, 6:33 pm

Crown of Stars Regular Member   Join Date: November 16, 2014 Posts: 1,628 Religion: Catholic, Indian, female

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Slavery was also wrong, and it was abolished. Just a thought. __________________ When God saw it was not good for Man to be alone, He created Woman.

#11   May 21, '16, 9:11 pm

Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob The Governor vetoed it today __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.

#12   May 21, '16, 9:12 pm

Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Peebo While I believe abortion is evil and a sin against God..I wonder how many of these politicians who say they are pro life practice and or support the use of contraceptives in their own families..that is also evil and a sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church..maybe as Catholics we should be asking these pro life politicians that question as well. But it's none of your business. __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.

#13   May 22, '16, 8:16 am

seekerz Forum Master   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 13,350 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Crown of Stars Slavery was also wrong, and it was abolished. Just a thought. Is there ever a moral exception to slavery? __________________ Cease, the heart of Jesus is within me. Sacred Heart of Jesus, thy kingdom come.

#14   May 22, '16, 8:35 am

mikekle Veteran Member   Join Date: August 3, 2012 Posts: 10,446 Religion: raised catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Crown of Stars Slavery was also wrong, and it was abolished. Just a thought. Good point, but it took many years to reach this point too, as well as bloody revolutions and battles, same thing will likely need to happen for abortion to be abolished.

#15   May 22, '16, 8:42 am

pete 29 Regular Member   Join Date: June 8, 2007 Posts: 4,521 Religion: Catholic

Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata So, you have no problem killing babies? Interesting from a Catholic standpoint. __________________ It is not charity to condemn people and their progeny to the poverty that is liberalism.       May 22, '16, 8:55 am seekerz Forum Master   Join Date: February 6, 2007 Posts: 13,350 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions f Quote: Originally Posted by pete 29 So, you have no problem killing babies? Interesting from a Catholic standpoint. So agreeing with the veto = having no problem killing babies? It's just plain wrong to draw such a conclusion. A person can support the veto and still oppose abort as a Catholic in good standing and clear conscience. I do, and I unequivocally support the right of every created human being to enter and remain in this life for as long as God grants them. Babies AND mothers. That's why the law is flawed: it does not clearly define protection of the mother's right to life or that of her doctors to save her life. Lack of carefully crafted laws, could get us to situations where abortion is outlawed and a doctor is afraid to treat a bleeding pregnant woman either because she has been infected with black and white, simplistic, no-contemplation reasoning OR because she is afraid a potential jury might be. __________________ Cease, the heart of Jesus is within me. Sacred Heart of Jesus, thy kingdom come.   #17   May 22, '16, 9:16 am Peebo Regular Member   Join Date: March 27, 2013 Posts: 1,383 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata But it's none of your business. Well it seems to be the business of most Catholics here on CAF who want to know which politician is or isn't pro life..all I'm pointing out is that shouldn't Catholics also hold politicians accountable as to whether they support the use of contraceptives..which is against the teaching of the Catholic Church..and it is definitely not pro life because it artificially blocks life from even being conceived..   #18   May 22, '16, 2:44 pm pete 29 Regular Member   Join Date: June 8, 2007 Posts: 4,521 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by seekerz f So agreeing with the veto = having no problem killing babies? . YES ! __________________ It is not charity to condemn people and their progeny to the poverty that is liberalism.   #19   May 22, '16, 3:36 pm Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Peebo Well it seems to be the business of most Catholics here on CAF who want to know which politician is or isn't pro life..all I'm pointing out is that shouldn't Catholics also hold politicians accountable as to whether they support the use of contraceptives..which is against the teaching of the Catholic Church..and it is definitely not pro life because it artificially blocks life from even being conceived.. Despite the promotion of NFP, most Catholics of childbearing age use some form of ABC. That too, is none of my or your business. Politicians are not going to take a stand on contraceptives. It would be a disaster for them. Priests don't even do that any more. If you are a single issue voter, then proceed accordingly. I think you will find most Catholics are not. __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.   #20   May 23, '16, 5:03 am estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata Despite the promotion of NFP, most Catholics of childbearing age use some form of ABC. That too, is none of my or your business. Politicians are not going to take a stand on contraceptives. It would be a disaster for them. Priests don't even do that any more. If you are a single issue voter, then proceed accordingly. I think you will find most Catholics are not. Is there any issue a candidate could support that would cause you not to vote for them regardless of their stance on other issues?   #21   May 23, '16, 6:20 am _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata Despite the promotion of NFP, most Catholics of childbearing age use some form of ABC. That too, is none of my or your business. Politicians are not going to take a stand on contraceptives. It would be a disaster for them. Priests don't even do that any more. If you are a single issue voter, then proceed accordingly. I think you will find most Catholics are not. What do you mean regarding Priests? Why wouldn't they take a stand?! Priests know that contraception is viewed as intrinsically evil. __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org   #22   May 23, '16, 7:11 am jtauke Regular Member   Join Date: January 2, 2015 Posts: 1,242 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by pete 29 YES ! This law was DOA, even if the governor would have signed it. It could not have been enforced due to the inevitable lawsuit, which would go to a deadlocked 4v4 SCOTUS. And there it would sit, unenforceable. Wasting taxpayer money.   #23   May 23, '16, 11:32 pm Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by _Abyssinia What do you mean regarding Priests? Why wouldn't they take a stand?! Priests know that contraception is viewed as intrinsically evil. They may know it, but they don't talk about it. __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.   #24   May 24, '16, 6:35 am TCEL Regular Member   Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata They may know it, but they don't talk about it. Well, for one, we've gone further down the rabbit trail to gay marriage. It makes sense to me to address the root, which isn't even contraception, but the sacramental worldview. However, many people are now just in damage control. Lots of people say abortion isn't our business either. __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #25   May 24, '16, 8:24 am Monkey1976 Regular Member   Join Date: May 1, 2007 Posts: 2,427 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by seekerz That's why the law is flawed: it does not clearly define protection of the mother's right to life or that of her doctors to save her life. Exactly what health conditions can only be treated by the direct killing of a child - not early induced labor with the intent to do everything possible to save the life of the child, but its actual killing - that would would otherwise live to term?   #26   May 24, '16, 11:24 am chero23 Forum Master   Join Date: November 12, 2012 Posts: 15,735 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by pete 29 So, you have no problem killing babies? Interesting from a Catholic standpoint. Do you have a problem with slavery? __________________ Check out my Catholic Apologetic Booklet. 121 themes/doctrines, 5,200 Bible Verses, 192 pages. English https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TE...bFU/edit?pli=1 Spanish https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2TE...M2c/edit?pli=1 Let others know about my booklet.   #27   May 24, '16, 12:10 pm Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by TCEL Well, for one, we've gone further down the rabbit trail to gay marriage. It makes sense to me to address the root, which isn't even contraception, but the sacramental worldview. However, many people are now just in damage control. Lots of people say abortion isn't our business either. My next door neighbor having an abortion is none of my business. __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.   #28   May 24, '16, 12:13 pm TCEL Regular Member   Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata My next door neighbor having an abortion is none of my business. I agree that we shouldn't go nosing around, playing Inquisitor. However, the Christian is not entitled to say, "I am not my brother's keeper." __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #29   May 24, '16, 12:46 pm estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata My next door neighbor having an abortion is none of my business. If you see her stabbing her 5 year old is that any of your business? Our Church teaches there is no difference between the two   #30   May 24, '16, 1:43 pm AFerri48 Regular Member   Join Date: October 21, 2015 Posts: 894 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob If you see her stabbing her 5 year old is that any of your business? Our Church teaches there is no difference between the two Outside of trying to convince her otherwise, what can you do if she wants to get an abortion? Knock her out and tie her up in your basement? May 24, '16, 1:47 pm peter26 Regular Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: August 20, 2012 Posts: 2,064 Religion: Looking for a new path Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions You can support candidates for office that would make abortion a crime, as it should be. Governor of Oklahoma Mary Fallin is obviously not one of those people who will stand up for the unborn. Anyone who lives in Oklahoma should make a note of this for election time. Similarly, if your state rep/senator voted to defend unborn life, give them your support. Under a pro-life governor, they may succeed. And yes, abortion is morally equivalent to stabbing a child. Because that is just what it is. __________________ The Lord bless thee, and keep thee. The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee. The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. Numbers 6:24-26   #32   May 24, '16, 2:02 pm estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by AFerri48 Outside of trying to convince her otherwise, what can you do if she wants to get an abortion? Knock her out and tie her up in your basement? To begin with I don't dismiss the death of 1 million children a year as "none of my business" In addition I do everything I can legally to stop this evil including, but not limited to, NEVER voting for someone who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand.   #33   May 24, '16, 8:15 pm Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob If you see her stabbing her 5 year old is that any of your business? Our Church teaches there is no difference between the two I disagree. There is a difference. Do I need to tell you what the legal difference is? __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.   #34   May 24, '16, 8:30 pm Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by AFerri48 Outside of trying to convince her otherwise, what can you do if she wants to get an abortion? Knock her out and tie her up in your basement? I am against knocking her out and imprisoning her in the basement. That leaves convincing those who disagree that the unborn are not valuable that they are in error. This includes having our laws reflect this reality. You and anyone else are free to disagree that the unborn are human of course. It certainly is more convenient for many people to think that the unborn are not inherently worthy of life.   #35   May 25, '16, 6:09 am AFerri48 Regular Member   Join Date: October 21, 2015 Posts: 894 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl1958 I am against knocking her out and imprisoning her in the basement. That leaves convincing those who disagree that the unborn are not valuable that they are in error. This includes having our laws reflect this reality. You and anyone else are free to disagree that the unborn are human of course. It certainly is more convenient for many people to think that the unborn are not inherently worthy of life. I'm pro-life dude. I just realize that sometimes there isn't much one can do to stop a woman from getting an abortion outside of tying her up somewhere, and honestly, that's clearly not the answer. When it comes to voting. Well yeah, it would be great for everyone to be pro-life in our government, but that's not going to happen overnight. It's gonna take time for the laws of our country to start reflecting the pro-life position more. And by the way, you should try not to be overtly condescending towards anyone who has different opinions than you, that is NOT how you will change a persons mind on this issue.   #36   May 25, '16, 6:29 am TCEL Regular Member   Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob To begin with I don't dismiss the death of 1 million children a year as "none of my business." Right. I don't understand the notion that we live in a vacuum. (It's why I'm not a Libertarian, but that's a discussion for elsewhere.) __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #37   May 25, '16, 6:43 am estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata I disagree. There is a difference. Do I need to tell you what the legal difference is? Our church teaches there is no difference so I assume this is a teaching of the Church you reject?   #38   May 25, '16, 5:14 pm pnewton Forum Elder   Join Date: June 1, 2004 Posts: 34,028 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by AFerri48 I'm pro-life dude. I just realize that sometimes there isn't much one can do to stop a woman from getting an abortion outside of tying her up somewhere, and honestly, that's clearly not the answer. What you do is give her a chance to not have the abortion or have an illegal abortion. Abortion laws are about saving lives to be sure, but they are also about who we are as a people. I __________________ "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in." - Jesus Nooo!! I didn't mean it!   #39   May 25, '16, 6:00 pm Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob Our church teaches there is no difference so I assume this is a teaching of the Church you reject? If you want to put it that way -- then yes. Myself and many other Catholics disagree with that teaching. __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.   #40   May 25, '16, 9:10 pm Monkey1976 Regular Member   Join Date: May 1, 2007 Posts: 2,427 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata If you want to put it that way -- then yes. Myself and many other Catholics disagree with that teaching. Exactly what is the moral difference between killing a child 5 minutes before it is born and 5 minutes after?   #41   May 25, '16, 9:23 pm graciew Regular Member   Join Date: January 29, 2010 Posts: 3,367 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Monkey1976 Exactly what is the moral difference between killing a child 5 minutes before it is born and 5 minutes after? Don t you have both laws? In the womb and neglect the baby is he/she is born alive in an abortion? I have been asking this. The baby is then in the hands of the will of mom.The questión is till how long after they are born,cause even born alive,he is left to die. It does not seem then a questión of the unborn only,but born too. That is your law,isn t it? I am asking.   #42   May 25, '16, 10:50 pm Darryl1958 Forum Master   Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 14,260 Religion: Unlisted Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by AFerri48 I'm pro-life dude. I just realize that sometimes there isn't much one can do to stop a woman from getting an abortion outside of tying her up somewhere, and honestly, that's clearly not the answer. When it comes to voting. Well yeah, it would be great for everyone to be pro-life in our government, but that's not going to happen overnight. It's gonna take time for the laws of our country to start reflecting the pro-life position more. And by the way, you should try not to be overtly condescending towards anyone who has different opinions than you, that is NOT how you will change a persons mind on this issue. I have no idea how I was condescending to you or anyone. I never questioned whether or not you were pro-life and never knew either way. I did stress the fact that you and anyone else is free to believe as you see fit. It is not condescending to answer a question that you asked directly with a direct answer. So, I am not for knocking a woman out and tying her up in the basement. That leaves convincing those who disagree that the unborn are not valuable that they are in error. This includes having our laws reflect this reality. If my fellow pro lifers are passionate about life, I think that they would all be in general agreement with me. The answer is not to tie someone up and lock her in a basement. The answer is to work to change attitudes and laws to make it clear that the unborn are people too. If you don't want someone to answer your question, then I suggest you don;t ask it.   #43   May 27, '16, 6:06 am estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata If you want to put it that way -- then yes. Myself and many other Catholics disagree with that teaching. Why is it relevant that the other Catholics reject the teaching also?   #44   May 27, '16, 6:09 am Maximilan Kolbe Banned   Join Date: August 27, 2015 Posts: 1,614 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob Why is it relevant that the other Catholics reject the teaching also? It makes dissenters who are wrong feel better to know they aren't the only one rejecting Christ's teachings.   #45   May 27, '16, 7:18 am jtauke Regular Member   Join Date: January 2, 2015 Posts: 1,242 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by estesbob Why is it relevant that the other Catholics reject the teaching also? What's the solution? Make abortion 100% illegal? It may soothe our collective consciences, but do you really think women who would have sought an abortion will just stop? What you've done is create a wildly popular black market for RU-486, or substances claiming to have the same effect. To say nothing of actual back alley surgical abortions. How about a law that covers any and all medical expenses related to pregnancy, from conception to birth at any healthcare provider? Or a law providing affordable child care, so a single mother doesn't have to pay crippling daycare costs in order to work and put food on the table.     May 27, '16, 7:24 am mary bobo Veteran Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10,611 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by Personanongrata If you want to put it that way -- then yes. Myself and many other Catholics disagree with that teaching. It makes you feel better to be accompanied by others who reject Catholic teaching? __________________ Praying for all CAF intentions.   #47   May 27, '16, 1:49 pm Personanongrata Regular Member   Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 1,044 Religion: Catholic Re: Oklahoma lawmakers vote to criminalize performing abortions Quote: Originally Posted by mary bobo It makes you feel better to be accompanied by others who reject Catholic teaching? No, not at all. Does it make you feel better to disagree? Your opinion does not dictate to me or others that disagree on these matters. For example - look at all the Catholics using birth control. They simply disagree. No harm to you. __________________ You have to give up the life you planned, to find the one that's waiting for you.