Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms

May 12, '16, 6:20 pm

gilliam Forum Elder Join Date: June 11, 2004 Posts: 37,957 Religion: Catholic

Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms WASHINGTON — In the middle of a legal fight with North Carolina over transgender rights, the Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping decree telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity. The letter to school districts that will go out Friday describing what they should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against, signed by officials of the Justice Department and Department of Education, does not have the force of law. But it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid. The move is certain to draw fresh criticism, particularly from Republicans, that the federal government is wading into local matters and imposing its own values on communities across the country that may not agree. It represents the latest example of the Obama administration using a combination of policies, lawsuits and public statements to change the civil rights landscape for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/us...ooms.html?_r=1 __________________ -gilliam Catholicism is not the religious version of a political ideology

#2   May 12, '16, 6:34 pm

jediliz Regular Member Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 4,540 Religion: Catholic and Proud of it!

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Fundamentally change America. How come I am the only one who saw the danger in electing him? And I am talking about his abortion stance (letting abortion survivors not get medical care) __________________ A Rosary a Day Keeps the Devil Away! "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason." - Our Lady of Fatima Who will speak for those who have no voice? Life.....what a beautiful choice!

#3   May 12, '16, 7:27 pm

Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz Fundamentally change America. How come I am the only one who saw the danger in electing him? And I am talking about his abortion stance (letting abortion survivors not get medical care) Trouble is, despite this, people still don't see the danger of having elected him. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska

#4   May 12, '16, 7:39 pm

mikekle Veteran Member Join Date: August 3, 2012 Posts: 10,440 Religion: raised catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms What happened to the states standing up to the federal govt over stuff like this? The individual states used to fight the feds every chance they get on issues, but nowadays, it seems like they are all in bed together and way too friendly with each other. Ive noticed this especially in law enforcement, I have a few friends that are retired cops, one is a state trooper, back in their days, they said local law enforcement hated when the FBI would want to get involved in something, usually the local police depts tried to fight them from taking over or assisting, or withheld important information, but like above, it seems nowadays, city and state police forces almost welcome FBI help, and they would definitely not try to keep them from getting involved. I guess this is just the way things are now...just seems strange it used to be completely different

#5   May 12, '16, 8:12 pm

Larryk113 Junior Member Forum Supporter Join Date: August 14, 2012 Posts: 150 Religion: Catholic!!

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms : Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Trouble is, despite this, people still don't see the danger of having elected him. __________________ God knows I am here. This is His will for me. Saint Jose Isabel Flores Varela

#6   May 12, '16, 8:38 pm

ClearWater Veteran Member Join Date: April 30, 2011 Posts: 10,573 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Wow, he won't even let the states decide! I thought it was bad enough with just Target, but now, it will be everywhere. I have a friend of mine who plans on going to Target with his own form of protest. He says he will say he identifies as a 70-year-old man and therefore wants his senior discount! __________________ http://www.themostholyrosary.com/15promises.htm Seven Sorrows of Mary Promises and Devotion http://www.themostholyrosary.com/appendix1.htm

#7   May 12, '16, 8:49 pm

Thom18 Regular Member Join Date: January 8, 2016 Posts: 792 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Trouble is, despite this, people still don't see the danger of having elected him. People are stubborn. It's more important to "stick it to the republicans" than to do anything to fix the situation...

#8   May 12, '16, 9:19 pm

josh987654321 Regular Member Join Date: March 14, 2013 Posts: 5,264 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by gilliam WASHINGTON — In the middle of a legal fight with North Carolina over transgender rights, the Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping decree telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity. The letter to school districts that will go out Friday describing what they should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against, signed by officials of the Justice Department and Department of Education, does not have the force of law. But it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid. The move is certain to draw fresh criticism, particularly from Republicans, that the federal government is wading into local matters and imposing its own values on communities across the country that may not agree. It represents the latest example of the Obama administration using a combination of policies, lawsuits and public statements to change the civil rights landscape for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/us...ooms.html?_r=1 Yea, cause I'm sure that will really help unite your Country *Sarcastic*. Very foolish thing for him to be doing, he obviously has totally disregarded the many legitimate and serious concerns. If I received that letter I would just put it into the bin where it belongs and keep following the same common sense procedures that sees men using men's bathrooms and change rooms and vice versa regardless of how they 'identify'. If you have the 'downstairs' stuff, you know what room you should be using. It's such a joke that this could be coming from the president and threatening to be enforced federally. "For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world." God Bless Thank you for reading Josh __________________ Jesus to St Faustina You please Me most when you meditate on My Sorrowful Passion. (Diary, 1512) The greatest misery does not stop Me from uniting Myself to a soul, but where there is pride, I am not there. (Diary, 1563) We resemble God most when we forgive our neighbors. (Diary, 1148) Last edited by josh987654321; May 12, '16 at 9:31 pm.

#9   May 12, '16, 9:28 pm

josh987654321 Regular Member Join Date: March 14, 2013 Posts: 5,264 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by ClearWater Wow, he won't even let the states decide! I thought it was bad enough with just Target, but now, it will be everywhere. I have a friend of mine who plans on going to Target with his own form of protest. He says he will say he identifies as a 70-year-old man and therefore wants his senior discount! Exactly, common sense just isn't common anymore. God Bless Thank you for reading Josh __________________ Jesus to St Faustina You please Me most when you meditate on My Sorrowful Passion. (Diary, 1512) The greatest misery does not stop Me from uniting Myself to a soul, but where there is pride, I am not there. (Diary, 1563) We resemble God most when we forgive our neighbors. (Diary, 1148)

#10   May 12, '16, 10:32 pm

brad90956 Junior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Posts: 426 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms I wonder if Mr. and Mrs. Obama would let their teenage daughters follow a man into the women's bathroom by themselves if there wasn't any Secret Service Protection? Quote: The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping decree telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity. Public schools. So I guess he doesn't have to worry about his daughters since they go to a private school.

#11   May 12, '16, 10:37 pm

RPRPsych Banned Prayer Warrior Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,112 Religion: Catholic. I leave the adjectives to wiser heads.

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms "Give me bathrooms or give me death!" When future students of American history read about this period, they'll seriously wonder if what they're reading is authentic sources or just satire.

#12   May 12, '16, 10:52 pm

Dwyer Regular Member Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms I don't know what choosing a bathroom to use has to do with getting an education. I guess it's easier to cry out from the balcony of the White House to the commons: see, you're all now equal on these social issues like marriage and toilets than improving basics like public transportation, fixing roads, access to fresh unpolluted water or establishing a Living Wage or a higher Minimum Wage for all. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)

#13   May 12, '16, 11:46 pm

AlphaFoxtrotNW Junior Member Join Date: April 14, 2016 Posts: 129 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms If there were ever anytime to speak out against the government, NOW is the time. Anyone up for a Cease and Desist Order? because Obama is unconstitutionally writing laws, acting similar to a King.

#14   May 12, '16, 11:53 pm

Exiled Child Veteran Member Join Date: June 30, 2014 Posts: 12,317 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms The world is falling apart at the seams and Americans are told to focus on who uses which restroom. __________________ Solvitur ambulando…. It is solved by walking… ~Augustine

#15   May 13, '16, 1:49 am

_Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,520 Religion: Catholic

Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms I think this will be challenged through the courts. Such a Decree could be made mute by the next President presumably. Gov. Abbott: Quote: I announced today that Texas is fighting this. Obama can't rewrite the Civil Rights Act. He's not a King. #tcot https://twitter.com/gregabbott_tx/st...68042281144320 __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org May 13, '16, 2:50 am DoGodsBidding Forum Master Prayer Warrior Join Date: March 25, 2007 Posts: 12,436 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by brad90956 I wonder if Mr. and Mrs. Obama would let their teenage daughters follow a man into the women's bathroom by themselves if there wasn't any Secret Service Protection? Public schools. So I guess he doesn't have to worry about his daughters since they go to a private school. __________________ As each one has received a gift, use it to serve one another as good stewards of God's varied grace. 1 Peter 4:10   #17   May 13, '16, 3:16 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaFoxtrotNW If there were ever anytime to speak out against the government, NOW is the time.   #18   May 13, '16, 4:32 am oliver927 Regular Member Join Date: January 8, 2015 Posts: 555 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by gilliam ..... But it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid. We need to stop sending tax dollars to the Feds just to have them give back what they think we should have. This lets the Federal Govt use federal funding as a weapon to bludgeon the States and local government into doing what they want.   #19   May 13, '16, 5:22 am Gertabelle Forum Master Prayer Warrior Join Date: September 14, 2006 Posts: 13,299 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Just saw this on the news this morning and I'm already worrying about what may happen in these last 10 days of school. Fortunately, the one student I have no doubt would use this decree to take advantage of the younger girls was suspended yesterday for targeting a first grader with some obscene insults. And thanks God for giving that first grader the courage to come forward and report the problem! Anyway, we have a few days to put a plan into place. I know we don't HAVE to follow Obama's recommendations, but if a student like the one above complains -- no matter how nefarious his intentions are -- we could all be facing a lawsuit! __________________ Saint Teresa of Calcutta, pray for us. ALL for Jesus! ALL that He wants! ALL for Jesus!   #20   May 13, '16, 5:33 am ProdglArchitect Regular Member Join Date: July 18, 2012 Posts: 5,430 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms I saw this on the news this morning, and I lack the emotional capacity deal with the amount of rage it induced in me. Hopefully the courts overturn this immediately, because it is just plain evil, and show a complete and utter content for, and denial about, reality.   #21   May 13, '16, 5:36 am GaryTaylor Forum Elder Join Date: March 30, 2010 Posts: 26,098 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle Just saw this on the news this morning and I'm already worrying about what may happen in these last 10 days of school. Fortunately, the one student I have no doubt would use this decree to take advantage of the younger girls was suspended yesterday for targeting a first grader with some obscene insults. And thanks God for giving that first grader the courage to come forward and report the problem! Anyway, we have a few days to put a plan into place. I know we don't HAVE to follow Obama's recommendations, but if a student like the one above complains -- no matter how nefarious his intentions are -- we could all be facing a lawsuit! I sympathize with your concerns, really I do. This administration is despicable in that it constantly forces peoples to confront their own moral compass and with an attempt and hope they will compromise it. I know there's no easy answer, there never is with evil. Prayers are with you!   #22   May 13, '16, 6:15 am Usige Regular Member Join Date: August 17, 2007 Posts: 4,124 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by jediliz Fundamentally change America. How come I am the only one who saw the danger in electing him? And I am talking about his abortion stance (letting abortion survivors not get medical care) Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo Trouble is, despite this, people still don't see the danger of having elected him. Even worse is those who fail to see the danger in continuing his bullying policies by voting for Hilary Clinton.   #23   May 13, '16, 6:18 am lmachine Regular Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Posts: 1,931 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by Gertabelle I know we don't HAVE to follow Obama's recommendations, but if a student like the one above complains -- no matter how nefarious his intentions are -- we could all be facing a lawsuit! Well yeah, you'd be violating the Civil Rights Act among other laws.   #24   May 13, '16, 6:24 am exnihilo Regular Member Join Date: June 13, 2011 Posts: 4,719 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Strictly speaking Obama shouldn't have the authority to make such a change. But, what this is signaling is that students can use the courts to get gender identity enshrined in law. The justice department won't oppose the effort but actually support it. This is a subversion of our form of government on paper. But really that paper is pretty irrelevant to our government these days. Quote: Originally Posted by oliver927 We need to stop sending tax dollars to the Feds just to have them give back what they think we should have. This lets the Federal Govt use federal funding as a weapon to bludgeon the States and local government into doing what they want. We can't stop it. The federal government is too big to suppress any more. The states are simply provinces of the US imperium. The illusions of states is good for making the people feel like they have more control, but it is a highly inefficient system. The layers of bureaucracy and hopeless court battles are costly. __________________ We fear men so much, because we fear God so little. One fear cures another. When man's terror scares you, turn your thoughts to the wrath of God. — GK Chesterton   #25   May 13, '16, 6:25 am jimcav Banned Join Date: October 4, 2007 Posts: 1,149 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms A couple of questions, I am wondering, just how many transgender kids are out there in our schools? I mean, all this consternation and upheaval for what, one or two trannis in a school district, if that!? Many won't have any. Or am I wrong on this number? And Good Lord, where does a teenager find a doctor to perform this mutilation? And how is it even legal for a doctor to touch a young person like that? How does a doctors hypocritical oath let him/her do this? I   #26   May 13, '16, 6:30 am qui est ce Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Join Date: July 5, 2005 Posts: 13,285 Religion: Catholic Christian Latin Rite Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by lmachine Well yeah, you'd be violating the Civil Rights Act among other laws. How so? __________________ Christine   #27   May 13, '16, 6:32 am qui est ce Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Join Date: July 5, 2005 Posts: 13,285 Religion: Catholic Christian Latin Rite Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by ClearWater I have a friend of mine who plans on going to Target with his own form of protest. He says he will say he identifies as a 70-year-old man and therefore wants his senior discount! __________________ Christine   #28   May 13, '16, 6:43 am exnihilo Regular Member Join Date: June 13, 2011 Posts: 4,719 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by jimcav A couple of questions, I am wondering, just how many transgender kids are out there in our schools? I mean, all this consternation and upheaval for what, one or two trannis in a school district, if that!? Many won't have any. Or am I wrong on this number? And Good Lord, where does a teenager find a doctor to perform this mutilation? And how is it even legal for a doctor to touch a young person like that? How does a doctors hypocritical oath let him/her do this? I I oppose the idea of 'gender identity' but I think that an appeal to the number of people affected by it is not a good argument. If it is a civil right to use the facilities of your 'gender identity' then claiming only a few people are affected would not win over most supporters of civil rights or the courts. Our society has long ago abandoned the idea that we analyze what is best for the common good. Sadly there are many doctors promoting this. Our ancestors are condemned for making eunuchs, but modern doctors are praised for it. __________________ We fear men so much, because we fear God so little. One fear cures another. When man's terror scares you, turn your thoughts to the wrath of God. — GK Chesterton   #29   May 13, '16, 6:47 am josh987654321 Regular Member Join Date: March 14, 2013 Posts: 5,264 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by jimcav A couple of questions, I am wondering, just how many transgender kids are out there in our schools? I mean, all this consternation and upheaval for what, one or two trannis in a school district, if that!? Many won't have any. Or am I wrong on this number? I believe It's not just about those who are legitimately suffering from some kind of gender dysphoria, but rather, the fact that it is an entirely subjective claim, a predator could easily just say they are transgender and what's anyone to say otherwise? Common sense should tell people, like it has always done, that if you have the stuff downstairs you know what bathroom to use regardless of how you 'identify'. Quote: Originally Posted by jimcav And Good Lord, where does a teenager find a doctor to perform this mutilation? And how is it even legal for a doctor to touch a young person like that? How does a doctors hypocritical oath let him/her do this? I I think sex reassignment surgery and any other form of 'transitioning' is criminal, gross negligence to advocate such things for people suffering from varying degrees of gender dysphoria (as it's clearly a mental problem and not a physical one in such cases, so to address it physically with mutilation, which is impossible to change a persons sex, is just gross negligence). Nevertheless, In relation to this I am not too concerned about those who have been through such mutilations (other than praying for them) as I can't really see them abusing bathrooms/change rooms, I am more worried about the above, those who haven't mutilated themselves getting a free pass. All one has to do is 'claim' to be transgender, because it's entirely subjective and apparently, not to be questioned. It's madness as the people pushing this seem to be totally oblivious to these serious and legitimate concerns, or worse, just plain ignore them. I hope this has helped "For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world." God Bless Thank you for reading Josh __________________ Jesus to St Faustina You please Me most when you meditate on My Sorrowful Passion. (Diary, 1512) The greatest misery does not stop Me from uniting Myself to a soul, but where there is pride, I am not there. (Diary, 1563) We resemble God most when we forgive our neighbors. (Diary, 1148)   #30   May 13, '16, 6:58 am Adonia Banned Join Date: November 6, 2005 Posts: 1,245 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by mikekle What happened to the states standing up to the federal govt over stuff like this? The individual states used to fight the feds every chance they get on issues, but nowadays, it seems like they are all in bed together and way too friendly with each other. Ive noticed this especially in law enforcement, I have a few friends that are retired cops, one is a state trooper, back in their days, they said local law enforcement hated when the FBI would want to get involved in something, usually the local police depts tried to fight them from taking over or assisting, or withheld important information, but like above, it seems nowadays, city and state police forces almost welcome FBI help, and they would definitely not try to keep them from getting involved. I guess this is just the way things are now...just seems strange it used to be completely different Our nation no longer believes in Federalism or the constitutional rule of law. I believe the cause is the last 30 years of liberal indoctrination in our schools. Ask just about any college freshman anything about our government and you will either get a blank stare or a completely wrong answer. May 13, '16, 7:00 am TCEL Regular Member Join Date: January 17, 2014 Posts: 2,440 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by Adonia Our nation no longer believes in Federalism or the constitutional rule of law. I believe the cause is the last 30 years of liberal indoctrination in our schools. Ask just about any college freshman anything about our government and you will either get a blank stare or a completely wrong answer. Unfortunately, I myself am an example of this ignorance. I'm very ignorant about our government. Colleges are generally vocational schools. I think it would be nice if our colleges were re-branded as vocational schools, and that we again had separate colleges designated for the "liberal arts." I'm very interested in classical education for any children we have, because I am a product of conventional education. __________________ From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: the Story of the Todah “If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.” ― G.K. Chesterton   #32   May 13, '16, 7:05 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,446 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by RPRPsych "Give me bathrooms or give me death!" When future students of American history read about this period, they'll seriously wonder if what they're reading is authentic sources or just satire. Yes, the absolutely burning issue that this represents set against massive national debts, unemployment and other issues cannot be overstated. Defending the toilets unto the death is of course absolutely the right way to proceed. Toilets of equal distinction must be had for all, let that be watchword of liberty and justice!   #33   May 13, '16, 7:11 am EleanorArr New Member Join Date: April 4, 2016 Posts: 75 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by ProdglArchitect I saw this on the news this morning, and I lack the emotional capacity deal with the amount of rage it induced in me. Hopefully the courts overturn this immediately, because it is just plain evil, and show a complete and utter content for, and denial about, reality. When was the last time a court overturned something on the basis of it being plain evil, out of curiosity? Can live in hope but I'd trust in something other than a court! I also can't help wondering that use of a particular bathroom is mostly predicated on outward appearance. I.e. a man as a sufficiently-convincing 'woman', or vice versa, has long been able to stroll in. I mean...what is such a decree really meant to do? I'm a bit confused Maybe I'm answering my own question now, but I do also think that from the point of view of compassion, we need to find SOME kind of solution even if it's a relatively inconsequential problem for a majority. Trans people suffer disproportionate abuse as it is. I can't begin to imagine the fear that a person undergone/going transition might feel when forced to use a bathroom that doesn't correspond to their new appearance. By all means 'think of the children'* - but regarding both school-aged students and the wider trans community, think of the adults, too. (* - by the by, this always seems a spurious argument. If a parent is suddenly afraid that their little bundle of joy is going to be snatched up by a pervert of either gender, then for heaven's sake just go in the bathroom with them. 'It's not safe' is a totally fallacious argument in this sense.)   #34   May 13, '16, 7:20 am irishpatrick Veteran Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Posts: 9,846 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms With all these news stories popping up seemingly every day, our Catholic schools should all be filled with waiting lists, and new schools should be designed and built. Yet, amazingly, that is not the case.   #35   May 13, '16, 7:23 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,446 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Perhaps we might work on toilets in first world countries that were more inclusive for disabled people first rather than these kind of 'causes' which are essentially created issues. However I suggest my phrase above of 'Toilets of Distinction' as a rallying cry for this vital movement which will no doubt lead the way to full employment, improved infrastructure and higher educational standards in your nation. I am sure as with so much else in the way of political thought this whole issue will filter over to us. Meanwhile in the rest of the world where something closer to reality pertains people will no doubt still be more concerned with putting food on the table for the family and other slightly more pressing issues.   #36   May 13, '16, 7:30 am ProdglArchitect Regular Member Join Date: July 18, 2012 Posts: 5,430 Religion: Roman Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by EleanorArr When was the last time a court overturned something on the basis of it being plain evil, out of curiosity? Can live in hope but I'd trust in something other than a court! I also can't help wondering that use of a particular bathroom is mostly predicated on outward appearance. I.e. a man as a sufficiently-convincing 'woman', or vice versa, has long been able to stroll in. I mean...what is such a decree really meant to do? I'm a bit confused Maybe I'm answering my own question now, but I do also think that from the point of view of compassion, we need to find SOME kind of solution even if it's a relatively inconsequential problem for a majority. Trans people suffer disproportionate abuse as it is. I can't begin to imagine the fear that a person undergone/going transition might feel when forced to use a bathroom that doesn't correspond to their new appearance. By all means 'think of the children'* - but regarding both school-aged students and the wider trans community, think of the adults, too. (* - by the by, this always seems a spurious argument. If a parent is suddenly afraid that their little bundle of joy is going to be snatched up by a pervert of either gender, then for heaven's sake just go in the bathroom with them. 'It's not safe' is a totally fallacious argument in this sense.) The use of bathroom -is- predicated on outward appearance, and that's not a bad way of doing it. There have always been, and will always be, people who will do spurious things like go into the wrong restroom. What this law does is give them a way out of being told to leave. Now if a man goes into a woman's restroom and does something that makes the women uncomfortable (such as stripping in front of several young women) there is no recourse. If they say they are trans-gendered the establishment would be forced to allow them to stay. The issue with this is that that is an entirely subjective notion which can easily be lied about. The application of law and regulation should be grounded in objective fact, not subjective "feelings." These people are, objectively, men and women, and the facilities they use should reflect that reality. Your argument about compassion is at least as fallacious as you claim my arguments are. Compassion does not equate to license. I can feel bad for an individual who is suffering from the notion that they are not their gender, but that does not mean that I can, or should, give in to their delusion or support is as somehow being legitimate. For the .03% of the population who actually do believe themselves to be the wrong gender, if it's that big of an issue for them there are gender neutral restroom as most facilities. For those places without them, I'm sorry, but just use the bathroom your genitalia dictates. The notion that this is making public facilities less safe isn't fallacious, nor is it spurious. In the short time since Target changed their policy there has already been at least one incident of a man taking pictures of women in the woman's changing areas after being admitted by claiming to be transgendered. You can phrase your arguments however you want; at the end of the day men are men and women are women and our laws should reflect that fact.   #37   May 13, '16, 7:36 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,446 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms It really is a burning issue (well depending on what medical conditions the users of said toilets suffer from), let us devote much attention to the 'Toilets of Distinction' for all campaign. Presumably the doors to the toilets for the gender neutral or third gender will be marked with a handy 'Constructed by rubeum allec builders Ltd'.   #38   May 13, '16, 8:06 am qui est ce Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Join Date: July 5, 2005 Posts: 13,285 Religion: Catholic Christian Latin Rite Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Maybe I'm not understanding this, but it appears the WH is applying Title IX only to transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice. Wouldn't using Title IX apply to all genders to use which-ever bathroom they want? __________________ Christine   #39   May 13, '16, 8:13 am DCNBILL Senior Member Greeter Join Date: December 18, 2009 Posts: 8,191 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Thats right Obama, go and find new and exciting ways of putting our children and grandchildren in harms way. __________________ Let us offer each other the sign of peace, bill Our Blog http://thespiritspeakstous.wordpress.com/   #40   May 13, '16, 8:22 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,446 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms I am more than tempted to make a satirical website campaigning for this issue in the UK and Ireland and call it TOD (Toilets of Distinction) and write it in a slightly shall we say, tongue in cheek style. I wonder how many people would get the joke and how many people would start joining in the campaign for this great issue of social injustice that is no doubt one of the major injustices afflicting the world right now...   #41   May 13, '16, 8:28 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,710 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian Perhaps we might work on toilets in first world countries that were more inclusive for disabled people first rather than these kind of 'causes' which are essentially created issues. However I suggest my phrase above of 'Toilets of Distinction' as a rallying cry for this vital movement which will no doubt lead the way to full employment, improved infrastructure and higher educational standards in your nation. I am sure as with so much else in the way of political thought this whole issue will filter over to us. Meanwhile in the rest of the world where something closer to reality pertains people will no doubt still be more concerned with putting food on the table for the family and other slightly more pressing issues. Possibly European governments do not concern themselves with toilets for disabled people. In the U.S. all new or renovated public facilities must have disability-accessible rest rooms. All of them, from government buildings to schools to candle shops. That has been the law for several years now. And, of course, if Europeans don't mind that men can undress in womens' dressing rooms where women are undressing, I guess that's their business. Generally speaking, American women don't want it. Even most little girls don't want boys in their rest rooms and dressing rooms, and certainly not adult male teachers or custodians. There certainly are more pressing issues, so why in the world is it so vital to Obama to force little girls to accept boys or adult male janitors in their restrooms and dressing rooms? I guess causing virtually universal dismay in order to destroy any semblance of gender privacy has been more important to him than, oh, say, raising SSI, the benefit for the disabled poor above the $700/month upon which they are now expected to survive; something he had eight years to deal with, but didn't.   #42   May 13, '16, 8:37 am Ridgerunner Forum Elder Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 36,710 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian I am more than tempted to make a satirical website campaigning for this issue in the UK and Ireland and call it TOD (Toilets of Distinction) and write it in a slightly shall we say, tongue in cheek style. I wonder how many people would get the joke and how many people would start joining in the campaign for this great issue of social injustice that is no doubt one of the major injustices afflicting the world right now... Are Europeans really that interested in whether little girls in America have to undress in front of little boys or adult men?   #43   May 13, '16, 8:42 am JharekCarnelian Forum Elder Join Date: April 14, 2008 Posts: 30,446 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by Ridgerunner Are Europeans really that interested in whether little girls in America have to undress in front of little boys or adult men? Fishing is a popular hobby I have been told...   #44   May 13, '16, 8:47 am JimG Forum Elder Join Date: May 23, 2004 Posts: 28,253 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms Quote: Originally Posted by qui est ce Maybe I'm not understanding this, but it appears the WH is applying Title IX only to transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice. Wouldn't using Title IX apply to all genders to use which-ever bathroom they want? It seems to me that would be the correct interpretation. Title IX prohibits discrimination based on sex. For a long time, that has meant things like no discrimination in admissions or in sports. Now the Dept of Education interprets it to mean no discrimination against transgendered persons as well, meaning that they can use whichever bathroom or locker room they want. But the plain language of no discrimination based on sex should and probably will be interpreted to mean, that anyone of any sex can use any restroom, locker room, shower facility of their choice. The DOE's statement that transgendered people can use the facilities of their gender identity is a little unclear to me. To be a member of this class, does one have to be medically determined to be transgender? Do occasional cross-dressers qualify? How about some man who only feels like a woman on rare occasions? For practical purposes, it would seem that anything goes. The DOE of course, has a big stick of withholding federal funds from any institution that refuses to comply.   #45   May 13, '16, 8:48 am estesbob Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 48,606 Religion: Catholic Re: Obama Administration to Issue Decree on Transgender Access to School Restrooms I hope he will extend this protection to all members of the "trans" community. Although my cis-species is human I realized about 25 years ago that i am really a Bear. i have undergone grievous discrimination for this. Embassy Suites has banned me from their hotels because, as bears do,I defecated in the potted plants in their lobby. Restaurants refuse to serve me raw meat and I cant find an employer whom will hire me and accommodate my need to sleep 4 moths a year. I am hoping Obama will rectify this immediately!