Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study

May 23, '16, 5:38 pm

_Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic

People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: The number of people who say they have no religion is rapidly escalating and significantly outweighs the Christian population in England and Wales, according to new analysis. The proportion of the population who identify as having no religion – referred to as “nones” – reached 48.5% in 2014, almost double the figure of 25% in the 2011 census. Those who define themselves as Christian – Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations – made up 43.8% of the population. “The striking thing is the clear sense of the growth of ‘no religion’ as a proportion of the population,” said Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary’s Catholic University in Twickenham, who analysed data collected through British Social Attitudes surveys over three decades. http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nd-wales-study __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org

#2   May 23, '16, 5:43 pm

_Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study I don't understand how it's possible the number of Nones could have gone up nearly 25% in five years. But he is looking at different data than just the Census?! __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org

#3   May 23, '16, 6:15 pm

Stylteralmaldo Veteran Member   Join Date: June 2, 2004 Posts: 9,000 Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study These numbers aren't too surprising given the number of Christians in the US is less than half the population as well. __________________ Today, I want to be transformed, whole and entire, into the love of Jesus and to offer myself, together with Him, to the Heavenly Father. - St. Faustina Kowalska

#4   May 23, '16, 6:33 pm

_Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by Stylteralmaldo These numbers aren't too surprising given the number of Christians in the US is less than half the population as well. Gallup found 75% in the USA "indentify with a Christian religion": http://www.gallup.com/poll/187955/pe...down-high.aspx __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org

#5   May 23, '16, 7:19 pm

Peebo Regular Member   Join Date: March 27, 2013 Posts: 1,383 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Only about 38% of Americans attend church at least on a weekly basis..not a ringing endorsement for people who claim they are Christians..according to this article Catholic men fare much worse than Protestant men http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90372&page=1

#6   May 23, '16, 7:32 pm

phil19034 Senior Member   Join Date: September 19, 2013 Posts: 6,782 Religion: Catholic - Roman Rite

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study I think these numbers are a little skewed. There are nones who believe in Christ, but are not part of any denomination, nor part of a "non-denominational community" __________________ I often post from my iPhone, so please forgive typos Visit Lighthouse Catholic Media Join CD/MP3 of the Month Club Are you in ministry & want a professional email address? Visit parishconsultants.org

#7   May 23, '16, 7:36 pm

OU812 Junior Member   Join Date: July 15, 2012 Posts: 265 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by phil19034 I think these numbers are a little skewed. There are nones who believe in Christ, but are not part of any denomination, nor part of a "non-denominational community" This is also true. I say come back in another 20 years. Islam, by then, will have made significant inroads.

#8   May 23, '16, 8:19 pm

commenter Regular Member   Join Date: April 21, 2011 Posts: 3,571 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study I agree with those who question the numbers, maybe the earlier year's numbers were drawn from different data or asked in a different way. Islam tends to retain its members at a higher rate, but don't overestimate the power of a secular Western society, especially the media and peer pressure. Growing up in England will be a very different experience from what their parents had in the Mideast. Islam will be a smaller force than Secular Humanism in 20 years. We need to pray for Christian revival in Britain.

#9   May 23, '16, 9:38 pm

abucs Regular Member   Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 3,168 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Godless education leads people to godlessness. Pretty simple.

#10   May 23, '16, 10:21 pm

Thorolfr Regular Member   Join Date: November 4, 2014 Posts: 5,628 Religion: Lutheran (ELCA)

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study According to Callum G. Brown, The Death of Christian Britain: Understanding Secularization 1800-2000 (Routledge, 2001), pp. 3-4: Quote: In the year 2000 less than 8 per cent of people attend Sunday worship in any week, less than a quarter are members of any church, and fewer than a tenth of children attend a Sunday school. Fewer than half of couples get married in church, and about a third of couples cohabit without marriage. In England only a fifth of babies get baptized in the Church England, and in Scotland one estimate is that about a fifth are baptized in either the Church of Scotland or the Roman Catholic Church. By some calculations, as few as 3 per cent of people regularly attend church in some counties of England, and in most the non-churchgoers represent over 90 per cent of the population. If church participation is falling, all figures for Christian affiliation are at their lowest point in recorded history. Christian church membership accounts for less than 12 per cent of the people and is falling….So weak are the demographics of church connection that the government is now contemplating disestablishing the Church of England.

#11   May 23, '16, 11:06 pm

liturgyluver Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2011 Posts: 2,393 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by _Abyssinia I don't understand how it's possible the number of Nones could have gone up nearly 25% in five years. But he is looking at different data than just the Census?! To be honest I can't see how that is physically possible. The census is the most accurate and widest ranging capture

#12   May 23, '16, 11:34 pm

DaddyGirl Senior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 29, 2011 Posts: 8,626 Religion: may the force be with you

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by abucs Godless education leads people to godlessness. Pretty simple. Not so simple at all. A lot of the "nones" today did indeed have religious education. . __________________ Creator and member of The Rational Rat Pack: "Wherever you go, there you are."

#13   May 24, '16, 2:27 am

abucs Regular Member   Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 3,168 Religion: Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Two things, firstly secular principles and ideology entered religious education some decades ago, although i think it is now being pushed out. If you like i can tell you about my experiences teaching in a Catholic school and my experience attending a Catholic University doing a master of teaching. i also did a thesis on 70 prospective teachers at the same university with regards to their opinions about religious education. Secondly, secular education creates lawyers, teachers, government workers, teachers, media people etc who look to implement the culture they have been given to wider society. Under secular principles Christian culture is pushed out and the godless culture created by secular academics becomes the default with no opposition. This has been the genesis of the culture war that has been so divisive in the last half century. The end result is that people become godless because they have been enculturated that way, starting with education. Like Russia and China however, we know it breaks down in the long run. The question is only about how much damage will it to to western civilisation before it breaks.

#14   May 24, '16, 3:23 am

Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Bentham's Auto-Icon is grinning from ear to ear at this news in the South Cloisters of the main building of UCL in Bloomsbury. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)

#15   May 24, '16, 3:29 am

Lion IRC Regular Member   Join Date: April 1, 2013 Posts: 1,953

Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyGirl Not so simple at all. A lot of the "nones" today did indeed have religious education. . Nope. They had education camps to brainwash the religion out of them. Atheism is growing fast in Australia. ...along with drug addiction, mental illness, domestic violence, homelessness, youth suicide http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...ention/7439788     May 24, '16, 6:04 am ChurchSoldier Regular Member   Join Date: September 5, 2012 Posts: 3,397 Religion: Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by OU812 I say come back in another 20 years. Islam, by then, will have made significant inroads. Agreed. __________________ Be nice. Everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about FWIW I generally don't subscribe or follow the threads where I make comments. If you would like to engage please send me a pm and the thread title and I'll go back to it.   #17   May 24, '16, 6:08 am commenter Regular Member   Join Date: April 21, 2011 Posts: 3,571 Religion: Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyGirl Not so simple at all. A lot of the "nones" today did indeed have religious education. . In a way, you are right. I don't know Britain, but in the US, much of Catholic and Protestant religious education was gutted of any doctrinal content, or anything that would suggest the need for conversion, in the late 1960s. Children were taught that religion is a means to an end, to facilitate making the world more equal, interchangeable, more "fair"; and also as a means of consolation. In other words, it doesn't matter if Mary is mother of God, or if the Bible is inspired, or if the Trinity exists -- if those beliefs comfort you, then they have meaning. If later something else comforts you, well that becomes "true", at least for you, at least for awhile. The Catholic Church began pulling out of that in recent years, especially with the Catechism, but some few, older catechists are still on that old track. I suspect the mainline churches are still on that track. At one time I would have said the Evangelicals were solid, now I am not so sure...I think it may vary a lot.   #18   May 26, '16, 12:57 am DaddyGirl Senior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 29, 2011 Posts: 8,626 Religion: may the force be with you Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyGirl Not so simple at all. A lot of the "nones" today did indeed have religious education. . Quote: Originally Posted by Lion IRC Nope. They had education camps to brainwash the religion out of them. . I know about 100 "nones," and about 90 of them were brought up in devoutly religious homes, went to religious schools, went to church every Sunday, read the Christian bible, etc, etc. Is that what you mean by "education camps" that brainwash the religion out of people? If so...I guess, in a way, you are right. Because for many of them, it was their religious education that convinced them to leave religion. Quote: Originally Posted by Lion IRC Atheism is growing fast in Australia. ...along with drug addiction, mental illness, domestic violence, homelessness, youth suicide http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...ention/7439788 Wait...are you trying to imply that the majority of people who are addicted to drugs, homeless on the street, suicidal, and are violent with their families...are atheists? . __________________ Creator and member of The Rational Rat Pack: "Wherever you go, there you are."   #19   May 26, '16, 8:39 am abucs Regular Member   Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 3,168 Religion: Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyGirl Because for many of them, it was their religious education that convinced them to leave religion. . That's exactly right and certain educators and professors should hang their collective heads in shame because we have lost 2 or 3 generations of Catholics to a dumbed down, wishy washy universalist nonsense posing as Catholicism. As i said before, the situation appears to be changing now thanks be to God but it doesn't help the former Catholics who were largely tricked out of their faith.   #20   May 26, '16, 3:56 pm Dwyer Regular Member   Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1,361 Religion: Byzantine Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Also, don't forget the powerful influence all of the garbage on Television and from Hollywood have and also the Celebrities and Talking News Heads they use to sway people from the Truth. __________________ "It's a free country; you can say whatever you want." --Old American Saying (U.S. Postal Service stamp-- from 1977 Americana series which extols freedom of speech and features a Speaker's Stand decorated with an American Flag shield.)   #21   May 28, '16, 9:04 am _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study British Christianity isn't dying. It's sleeping. Evangelism can awaken it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...lism-can-awak/ The Catholic Church in England has lost its convert-making touch. Here’s how to get it back http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comm...o-get-it-back/ __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org   #22   May 28, '16, 9:53 am dixieagle Regular Member   Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 4,428 Religion: Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study We were in England last month and went to Mass in both a small parish in Oakham, Rutland, and then at the Cathedral of Westminster in London. There was a decent-sized congregation in Oakham for a Saturday evening Mass (relative to the size of the church) and a very large congregation for a Saturday evening Mass in London. Clearly, the Cathedral attracts tourists as well as regular parishioners, but my sense was that a large number of them were local. I was frankly pleasantly surprised, given my low expectations. __________________ "A Boston College Eagle in the DEEP south" My blog: http://www.achattycatholic.com   #23   May 28, '16, 11:08 am CarolNoel Regular Member   Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 2,369 Religion: Catholic - Forever Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study So sad to hear this, and so glad I have my faith. __________________ When you feel like you are drowning in life, don't worry. Your LIFEGUARD walks on water.   #24   May 29, '16, 5:57 pm Little Sheep Regular Member   Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 1,766 Religion: Episcopalian Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Christians are our own worst enemy when it comes to attracting people to the faith. We have a lot to do to show the joy and peace inherent in a walk with Christ.   #25   May 29, '16, 9:18 pm Lion IRC Regular Member   Join Date: April 1, 2013 Posts: 1,953 Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by Lion IRC Nope. They had education camps to brainwash the religion out of them. Atheism is growing fast in Australia. ...along with drug addiction, mental illness, domestic violence, homelessness, youth suicide http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...ention/7439788 Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyGirl Wait...are you trying to imply that the majority of people who are addicted to drugs, homeless on the street, suicidal, and are violent with their families...are atheists? . I'm not trying to imply that.   #26   May 29, '16, 9:34 pm oldcelt Senior Member   Join Date: February 2, 2009 Posts: 7,198 Religion: Deist, former Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyGirl Not so simple at all. A lot of the "nones" today did indeed have religious education. . I think that education is at the root, but not in a negative sense. As literacy rates have climbed over the past few centuries, people have become able to study the basis for whatever faith may be involved. It seems entirely possible to me that people are rejecting the more traditional beliefs because they have had the ability to teach themselves, examine the fundamental documents; compare, contrast and analyze, without external influences to sway or force their thought processes. Prior to this. people generally knew only what they were told. John __________________ With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan.. Abraham Lincoln   #27   May 29, '16, 9:37 pm _Abyssinia Forum Elder Prayer Warrior   Join Date: May 20, 2011 Posts: 21,523 Religion: Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by oldcelt I think that education is at the root, but not in a negative sense. As literacy rates have climbed over the past few centuries, people have become able to study the basis for whatever faith may be involved. It seems entirely possible to me that people are rejecting the more traditional beliefs because they have had the ability to teach themselves, examine the fundamental documents; compare, contrast and analyze, without external influences to sway or force their thought processes. Prior to this. people generally knew only what they were told. John So what are you saying in turn about religious people? If literacy were at the root then then how does that example for example, South Korea, which has high educational standards and high literacy, and yet there had been an exponential growth of Christianity in that country. China is a country with increasing literacy and increasing religion. __________________ Human Life International helps to build the culture of life in more than "100 countries". Please help their mission: https://www.hli.org   #28   May 29, '16, 10:05 pm oldcelt Senior Member   Join Date: February 2, 2009 Posts: 7,198 Religion: Deist, former Catholic Re: People of no religion outnumber Christians in England and Wales – study Quote: Originally Posted by _Abyssinia So what are you saying in turn about religious people? If literacy were at the root then then how does that example for example, South Korea, which has high educational standards and high literacy, and yet there had been an exponential growth of Christianity in that country. China is a country with increasing literacy and increasing religion. I think you have given two examples that aid my point. With increased literacy, the people of Korea and China are, at least for the moment, rejecting their more traditional practices. John __________________ With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan.. Abraham Lincoln